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19" Turbine Wheel Solution

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by NJS1207, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Wheels have several dimensions that interface with the car. Getting them all right for a particular car isn't always easy. It doesn't help that many places that sell wheels are familiar with neither the wheels nor the car.
     
  2. NJS1207

    NJS1207 Member

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    Although the thread size (14MM), thread pitch (1.5") and seat type (tapered) are the same as the OEM lug nuts, the lug nuts for the Luganos are small diameter. I checked an old email exchange I had with my TM parts adviser from when he took delivery of my aftermarket wheels, and we realized that the stock lug nuts were too wide to work. It turns out that the opening for the lug bolt on the Rial Lugano wheels is approximately 29mm, whereas the stock Model S wheels have an opening diameter of 34mm. Long story short, I do not believe the Gorilla lug nuts I posted above would be suitable to put on the OEM wheels because the OEM nuts are so much wider. I do not know the precise dimension of the OEM nut head offhand, but I will put one in a socket to figure out what they are. I will also take one of the leftover Gorilla lug nuts and see if it fits on the 21" OEM wheels in my basement. Even if it seats, my guess is that the fitment will not be right. There should be plenty of other locking nuts to do the job that have the same diameter as the OEM lug nuts, though. Whatever lug nuts/locking nuts you get, just confirm that they can handle Tesla's torque spec.
     
  3. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I'd be kind of worried about smaller nuts/bolts. It's not all that much fun when the wheel pulls over the nuts during hard cornering.
     
  4. bonehead

    bonehead Member

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    If I want to go with a staggered fitment with aftermarket wheels, does anyone know if 10" for the rear is TOO wide (rubbing issues, etc)? I'm going 20x8.5 for the front with 245/40/20's. I was considering 265 or 275 for the rears and looks like the majority of 20" wheels come in 8.5" and 10" widths. My "wheel guy" asked me to measure the well, but alas, I have no car yet to do so!
     
  5. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    Here is why you should *only* use Tesla's OEM rims:

    Tesla_S_Lugs_OEM.jpg

    The OEM rims are uniquely drilled with both a taper area AND a shoulder area. The 125 lbs of torque apportions between these two areas. If you use only tapered nuts you are only doing 1/2 the job necessary to properly attach rim to hub. And the drilling must space the shoulder precisely from the taper; this distance being critical. Plus the S uses 14mm bolts (like on a one ton diesel pickup), not the usual 12mm.

    ModelS is both heavy & powerful; truly in a rare class of cars. Look at the rim specs on similarly powerful cars to get a sense of what is required here. Better to just rely on Tesla to supply you a safe rim. TM charges $1k per set of four 19in rims. That is not much more than these light-duty rims cost.
    --
     
  6. alset

    alset Member

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    The new Boston service center has some winter tire packages in stock. Unclear if they are for local customers only (I am local). In any case, make sure to call your local service center before doing anything custom.

    Details of the Watertown, MA service station are here:
    Watertown service center is open!!
     
  7. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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    #87 jcstp, Dec 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2012
    So if I understand correctry, it is best to install truck-wheels on a model S?
    Maybe warn Tirerack.com ;-)
     
  8. NJS1207

    NJS1207 Member

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    What are the "light duty rims" you are referring to? What "rim specs on similarly powerful cars" should we be looking for?
     
  9. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Wheels have a max pressure and max load just like tires do. However, it's hard to find these specs because they generally aren't published. You have to contact the wheel manufacturer. It's only of a concern in the outlier cars (ones that are very heavy and very powerful: Model S, 7 series, etc.). Because it's hard for consumers to find the information, sticking with factory approved wheels, or wheels that specifically mention that particular car are the usual choices. Note that the wheel seller (tire shop, car dealer, etc.) is unlikely to either have this information or even be aware that it's a potential problem.
     
  10. NJS1207

    NJS1207 Member

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    Thanks Jerry33. It is a very good point. I checked out the load rating before purchasing the wheels, but I may not have posted the spec previously. The Rial Lugano has a load rating of 735 kg.
     
  11. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    That's about 1,600 pounds. Do you multiply by 4? If so that's more than enough.
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Yes, it's each wheel so you multiply by four. The only other check I would make is to find out what the rating is for the Tesla wheels. If the Rial Lugano wheels are the same or higher you're in business. (The reason for this check is that Tesla may [note may] have specified a higher load rating than normal to cover the cornering forces.) My best guess at this point is that the Rial Lugano wheels will pass this check as they carry ~140% of the car's weight.
     
  13. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Don't forget that under heavy braking or corning a larger percentage of the car's weight will be loaded on two wheels.
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The low center of gravity in the Model S, minimizes weight transfer. There will be some, but it won't be much compared to other cars. The air suspension also helps.
     
  15. NJS1207

    NJS1207 Member

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    Following are some new pictures I've taken of the car/wheels. As of yesterday, I have logged over 1,000 miles on the Luganos and have been very pleased with them in combination with the Pirelli winter tires.
    http:[email protected]/sets/72157632086828031/

    I have not had the opportunity to test them through any significant snow this season, but I have been impressed with their handling on wet roads.

    To follow up on Wycolo's post regarding OEM lug nuts above, I also posted some photos of the Gorilla tuner-style splined lug nuts compared with the Tesla OEM lug nuts.
    http:[email protected]/sets/72157632259208451/

    Finally, below is a link to a discussion I found on a Camaro site where they had a similar debate about whether Gorilla lug nuts could properly be torqued to OEM specs. Like the Tesla, the Camaro uses a 14x1.5 lug nut, although Chevy has a torque spec of 190 N/M (140 ft/lbs) --- even higher than Tesla's. The bottom line was that Gorilla confirmed its lug nuts could be torqued to 140 ft/lbs.
    http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74710

    Any time you put non-OEM equipment on your car, you are departing from what the engineers judged to be optimal for performance and safety. In this case, I posed all the questions I could think to ask to the relevant manufacturers and suppliers. Their answers all led me to believe that this solution would work. My experience has been that it works well mechanically and aesthetically. If Tesla offered a 19" turbine option, I certainly would have purchased it. But I have been really pleased with these wheels and tires so far.
     
  16. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    Beautiful. Thanks for all the work you put in.
    Is there an advantage to the Gorilla lug nuts OTHER than the locking part over the 14x1.5 ones we'd get from Tunershop?
     
  17. NJS1207

    NJS1207 Member

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    I am not aware of any advantage. For me it was purely a timing issue. I wanted the service center to test the wheels before delivering my car, and it was quicker to order the gorillas than to wait for tunershop to send them.
     
  18. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    They look great. I'll be getting a set for sure.
     
  19. Ceilidh

    Ceilidh Member

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    Thanks for the info!

    Cheers.
     
  20. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    S_rim_casting_data.jpg

    Yes, install the 'truck wheels' available thru your friendly nearby Tesla Motors Shop (see image). The TM OEM 19in rims have some interesting data cast into the spokes: "Tesla DOT", 19J 8.0 (?looks like 8.0?), "sensor may be inside", "made in USA". Missing is the usual "1770 lbs max" that you find on aftermarket rims, but the "Tesla DOT" trumps this since it means 'this rim is warranted for use on Tesla vehicles'.

    Ask your aftermarket rim supplier about their warranty for intended service on ModelS. Easier to warn ModelS owners here on TMC rather than chat once again with rim jockies on the phone.

    And +1 jerry33.
    --
     

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