19 vs 21" Wheel performance on P100D

[VegasBlue]

I'm sure this has been covered before, and maybe someone can redirect me to the appropriate thread.

Im upgrading from a P85D to a P100D soon.
Im not thrilled with the look of the new 21" wheels.
I have had 4 flat tires in 3 three years on my current 21" tires which I consider somewhat fragile.
But I don't want to sacrifice performance.
I know the 21s are supposed to have better handling.
But the 19s are cheaper, provide better battery milage, might ride a little softer, and might be a little less prone to flats.

Does anyone know if there is any real difference in 0-60 speed between the 19s and the 21s?

 

[bishoppeak]

Should be no difference in 0-60 time. Diameter is the same and the contact patch too, just longer and skinnier. 21" makes an improvement in handling because the contact patch is wider and shorter, so better for side force.

 

[BigCity]

I made the exact same switch as you going from P85D to P100D, everyone will tell you there is a difference between 19"-21" due to diameter and weight, but in reality my butt dyno says it's the same. I've had aftermarket 21" staggered 10.5" and feel like it handles better with the wider low profile tire. Ride quality is worse with 21" than say a 19" or 20" with a higher profile tire. I run 20" in the winter months then back to my aftermarket set of 21" for the summer. Loving both for different reasons, the 20's are great for winter and don't worry about messing up my nicer 21" rims plus the higher profile helps protect against the winter potholes that have been terrible this year and gives me more options for a winter tire in snow. 21's look the best on the S IMO and also provide better handling, but at the sacrifice of ride quality and higher pot hole risk.

 

[icefree]

I made the exact same switch as you going from P85D to P100D, everyone will tell you there is a difference between 19"-21" due to diameter and weight, but in reality my butt dyno says it's the same. I've had aftermarket 21" staggered 10.5" and feel like it handles better with the wider low profile tire. Ride quality is worse with 21" than say a 19" or 20" with a higher profile tire. I run 20" in the winter months then back to my aftermarket set of 21" for the summer. Loving both for different reasons, the 20's are great for winter and don't worry about messing up my nicer 21" rims plus the higher profile helps protect against the winter potholes that have been terrible this year and gives me more options for a winter tire in snow. 21's look the best on the S IMO and also provide better handling, but at the sacrifice of ride quality and higher pot hole risk.

I do basically the same thing, but I run with 19" wheels (Sport Edition WX9 from Tirerack) with winter tires, and use 20" wheels (Tsportline turbines) for summer. Very happy with both setups, though interestingly, I found my Winter Sottozero 3 were quieter than my summer Pilot Super Sports.

 

[Russell]

My Pilot 4ss are very noisy and stiff. I can hear and feel when the car goes over painted lines.
Is that the norm for performance tires?

 

[VegasBlue]

Thank you for your responses.
My question is this:
Assuming the diameter of the 19s and 21s is the same, why do the 19s give you 30 more miles on a charge?
Is it because the 21s have a total surface area contact patch is larger and therefore has more friction on the road?
If this were so, then the car would accelerate faster on 21s than 19s.

 

[FLYVMO]

A few things affect the range:

1 - the 19s are lighter by several pounds per wheel compared to the 21s
2 - the 19s are all-season tires (less sticky, less friction), whereas the 21s are summer/higher performance tires (stickier compound)
3 - 19" rims are 8" wide, 21" rims are 8.5" wide(non-staggered). The wider rims would in theory "stretch" the same size tire (245) contact patch slightly allowing for more rubber on the ground.

Earlier cars (P models) had staggered setups but I think the standard now is the same tire width all around.
Owner's manual lists the rim dimensions and type of tire shipped with the car from the factory

 

[bhzmark]

Some the fastest times on dragtimes timeslips for p85dl and p90dl are from cars that had 19s.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Lose the weight and go with 19's, fast accelerating, better braking and more reliable. On all three of our Model S's I have dumped the 21's (P85, P85+ and 90D) and have never looked back. Frankly if someone made reasonable priced carbon fiber wheels, I would have those already, on 19's or 20's. You dont need a butt dyno to tell, the range dyno says it all.

 

[herukawon]

This question about wheel size points to what for me is a huge issue for Tesla. I'm interested in hearing views from folks here. I've been looking to buy a used model S. I like the performance model 3 but the cargo area is too small for me. I now think I'll wait to see how the Model Y does with a critical issue: braking! The Model S with 21 inch wheels and summer performance tires does 70-0 in 162 feet. I suspect that would put stopping distance for 19 inch wheels and all season tires up around 180 or 190 or more, which is not good. Tesla seems to be getting so many things right, They are the car of the future but I hope they can get this issue solved. I really don't care much about the aesthetics or marginal acceleration gains having the big wheels and sticky tires on a blazing quick elegant car. The cornering is a signficant issue, but the braking is critical. The summer tires are a no-go in weather below 40-45 F. I don't expect such a heavy car to stop like a Corvette, but I would hope it would do as well as a Chevrolet Traverse 3 row SUV. Right now, it doesn't. A fantastic invention, the car of the future, but to me, a critical problem in the present.

 

[Tic-tac-toe]

This question about wheel size points to what for me is a huge issue for Tesla. I'm interested in hearing views from folks here. I've been looking to buy a used model S. I like the performance model 3 but the cargo area is too small for me. I now think I'll wait to see how the Model Y does with a critical issue: braking! The Model S with 21 inch wheels and summer performance tires does 70-0 in 162 feet. I suspect that would put stopping distance for 19 inch wheels and all season tires up around 180 or 190 or more, which is not good. Tesla seems to be getting so many things right, They are the car of the future but I hope they can get this issue solved. I really don't care much about the aesthetics or marginal acceleration gains having the big wheels and sticky tires on a blazing quick elegant car. The cornering is a signficant issue, but the braking is critical. The summer tires are a no-go in weather below 40-45 F. I don't expect such a heavy car to stop like a Corvette, but I would hope it would do as well as a Chevrolet Traverse 3 row SUV. Right now, it doesn't. A fantastic invention, the car of the future, but to me, a critical problem in the present.

Well, it’s mostly physics isn’t it. The S is a very heavy car weighing just under 5000 lbs. I have never heard anyone complain about the braking. Anyway, just about everyone who buys the SP100D buys it for the acceleration, it is the fastest car in the world by acceleration, 0 to 60 in 2.28 sec in full ludicrous plus and 2.5 sec in plain ole ludicrous. By comparison the Porsche 911 Turbo S a two seater supercar selling for 200k does 0 to 60 in 2.7 sec in launch mode. The 911 is much lighter at around 3500 lbs and stops from 60 to 0 in around 130 ft.

Anyway, I don’t have any complaints about the S P100D braking or anything else... I love love love my car. I can smoke anything within legal velocity on the road... even the 911TS and chauffeur my kid and mother comfortably around in the back seats plus all our stuff, too much luggage!

 

[Destiny1701]

A few things affect the range:

1 - the 19s are lighter by several pounds per wheel compared to the 21s
2 - the 19s are all-season tires (less sticky, less friction), whereas the 21s are summer/higher performance tires (stickier compound)
3 - 19" rims are 8" wide, 21" rims are 8.5" wide(non-staggered). The wider rims would in theory "stretch" the same size tire (245) contact patch slightly allowing for more rubber on the ground.

Earlier cars (P models) had staggered setups but I think the standard now is the same tire width all around.
Owner's manual lists the rim dimensions and type of tire shipped with the car from the factory

You can always opt to purchase the 21” arachnid forged Tesla wheels off the forum or eBay. They are lighter and stronger than the turbine 21’s and should provide for better handling and rigidity over pot holes. In fact they come out lighter than the 19” Oem rims/tire set up!

And damn they look good!!

 

[herukawon]

Hey Tic Tac Toe I understand you want the quickest car and that's fine. My priority as I said is a little different and includes not dying or having someone else die unnecessarily. I realize that's not a concern for some folks who might be happy ditching the air bags, seat belts and maybe the brakes completely (that's a joke -- kind of). For me it matters. I may still get a used S 90 but I'd be interested in seeing cornering and braking numbers with different all season tires if anyone has those. Thanks.

 

[herukawon]

p.s. a reasonable comparison would be the Volvo XC 90 -- T6 and T8, which the Tesla S is roughly between in weight. Or the Audi Q7.

 

[Naekuh]

I have 21's and i am sort of hating them with a passion now.
sigh... i have had to replace the tires twice on my car all within 5k miles.

The first one was because of a bad nail, and the second one on a pot hole.
Each time it has costed me about $365 for the front, and $375 for the rear for 21's.
And there is very little wiggle room because they just don't make our tires in many brands.


I got lucky twice on not dinging the rim, (knock on wood), but the tire is almost guarentee'd side wall damage from having a 35 side wall. Its a very thin tire wall.

And that's not all, each time i replaced the tire, they don't torque it to spec, so i have to bring my torque wrench and ask the guy to please torque the nut it to spec. (175N / 129LBs)

I will say this many many times to anyone interested... get aftermarket 20's with 245/40/zr20 tires !!!
The ride is a bit better, looks just as good as the 21's and the tire is a ton cheaper when you hit that dayam pothole by mistake.
And its a lot more forgiving having that extra bit on the tire wall when you do hit a pothole.

 

[Tic-tac-toe]

Hey Tic Tac Toe I understand you want the quickest car and that's fine. My priority as I said is a little different and includes not dying or having someone else die unnecessarily. I realize that's not a concern for some folks who might be happy ditching the air bags, seat belts and maybe the brakes completely (that's a joke -- kind of). For me it matters. I may still get a used S 90 but I'd be interested in seeing cornering and braking numbers with different all season tires if anyone has those. Thanks.

What the hell are you talking about?!? I use my MS primarily to haul little kids (car pool) and old people (more car pool) around. You asked whether weight and braking/cornering was a safety issue for the S P100D. It isn’t.... and the car is super nimble despite the weight (you can’t tell how heavy it is at all) and handling is superb under normal everyday driving conditions - not on a track and racing.

Go test drive a S P100D. You’ll love it It’s a complete blast to drive... WAY more fun than the Porsche Panamera Turbo, BMW 7 series or a Mercedes S class. Just as fun (and quicker) as any two seater supercar. YMMV.

I have the all weather 19” Oems.

 

[AMPd]

I have 21's and i am sort of hating them with a passion now.
sigh... i have had to replace the tires twice on my car all within 5k miles.

The first one was because of a bad nail, and the second one on a pot hole.
Each time it has costed me about $365 for the front, and $375 for the rear for 21's.
And there is very little wiggle room because they just don't make our tires in many brands.


I got lucky twice on not dinging the rim, (knock on wood), but the tire is almost guarentee'd side wall damage from having a 35 side wall. Its a very thin tire wall.

And that's not all, each time i replaced the tire, they don't torque it to spec, so i have to bring my torque wrench and ask the guy to please torque the nut it to spec. (175N / 129LBs)

I will say this many many times to anyone interested... get aftermarket 20's with 245/40/zr20 tires !!!
The ride is a bit better, looks just as good as the 21's and the tire is a ton cheaper when you hit that dayam pothole by mistake.
And its a lot more forgiving having that extra bit on the tire wall when you do hit a pothole.

Have you considered buying road hazard warranty for the tires?
It’s free if you purchase the tires from tire rack.
I have the 21s and the road hazard warranty has saved me money on 2 occasions

 

[Naekuh]

Have you considered buying road hazard warranty for the tires?
It’s free if you purchase the tires from tire rack.
I have the 21s and the road hazard warranty has saved me money on 2 occasions

that is the route i am going with on the replaced pair.
But i read somewhere it takes time for them to actually credit you.
Since we have no real spare, (another problem) you don't have the luxury to wait a couple of days to a week for the credit to get applied before you need to replace it anyhow.

:T

 

[TSLA Pilot]

A few things affect the range:

1 - the 19s are lighter by several pounds per wheel compared to the 21s
2 - the 19s are all-season tires (less sticky, less friction), whereas the 21s are summer/higher performance tires (stickier compound)
3 - 19" rims are 8" wide, 21" rims are 8.5" wide(non-staggered). The wider rims would in theory "stretch" the same size tire (245) contact patch slightly allowing for more rubber on the ground.

Earlier cars (P models) had staggered setups but I think the standard now is the same tire width all around.
Owner's manual lists the rim dimensions and type of tire shipped with the car from the factory

Actually, FLYVMO, the earliest Model S's all had the same size 21" wheel at all four corners (when ordered with the 21" wheel option). This applied to both Performance and non-Performance as well--we had a 2013 Model S 85 in this configuration. Soon thereafter the "P" models went to a staggered configuration with the rears slightly wider, perhaps in late 2013 or early 2014.

It was at least a year or two ago that all 21" wheels sets became staggered, regardless of the type of Model S. Even a 60, 60D, or 75 would come with staggered wheels with the 21" wheel option.

 

[Skateboardgolf]

On all three of our Model S's I have dumped the 21's (P85, P85+ and 90D) and have never looked back.

Which 19" wheels and tires do you recommend?