1st Snow day for my Model 3 SR+ and for the season - lost control and bumped into divider

[Kali]

Hello All,
Dropped my car at bodyshop (Tesla authorized and recommend) and waiting for next steps. Now insurance is having all kind of drama about fixing it.

As per the body shop Tesla is better these days with parts delivery and approx time is 6 weeks till then have to leave with rental car and missing my Tesla.

 

[KenC]

...At 80% of my commute I was driving around 40 mph (speed limit was 55 mph) suddenly my car lost traction & controlled dragged towards one side of highway and got to hit the divider . it got banged both front side and rear side (driver side), completely damaged below head light in front and rear wheel rim is broken with bend, seems like suspension is damaged.

Now i after this incident i am really worried and lost the confident about this car managing in snow and icy conditions, how to drive this car in Snowing city, I agree i wont go up into mountains much but still in foothills we get lot of snow. Need you guys suggestion with next options, do i need to trade this car to AWD or checking with Tesla to see if something wrong with traction system, Definitely will go with winter tires.

So, as I mentioned before, you might want to consider a winter driving school class... the reason I say so, is that you describe a scenario where you get on the highway, where the cars with their tires are plowing a clear track.

The problem with that, is you have to stay in the clear track, or your tire will get hooked and your car will pull to the side and hit a guardrail or cement divider. That sort of thing. That kind of driving requires alot of concentration to stay in the track if the clear track is only a tire or two wide. The alternative is to stay on the snow, go slower, and ignore the clear track made by the other cars. That will keep all 4 tires on a snow surface, preventing any one tire from pulling you off to the side. You need experience with those conditions to decide which approach to take. Most people opt for the clear track, because it's faster, but it's also riskier because you can get in trouble faster too.

 

[Cmos2000]

I live in Boulder as well. Studless winter tires are the best thing you can do. I would rather drive a rear wheel drive car with snow tires than an awd with all seasons. Awd only helps you accelerate. Snow tires help you brake and turn and accelerate.

 

[eye.surgeon]

If you don't have snow tires I don't care what car you're in, you're a hazard to yourself and others.

 

[coleAK]

And they still doesn't split the torque between the two drive units. (It favors the rear until it starts slipping, snow/winter mode would split it all the time so that you slipped less.)

This was this discussed At great length last winter. I was The first person on here that mentioned it was too rear bias last Fall. If you look up old Threads You’ll see there were a couple of people bashing me for that observation. Then people did videos of AWD 3’s on rollers that proved my theory was correct. After a full winner in Alaska honestly I have to say the only time I noticed the need the need for more front wheel traction Is when I was trying to make it slide. I’ve sort of dropped it since changing the F/R power distribution is out of my control until Tesla decides to address it.

 

[Kali]

Thank you all for your inputs, suggestions and sharing your experience.

I always use two sets (Winter/Summer) on my other cars , being we are in October haven't swapped tries.
Once i get back my Tesla from body shop (hopefully in 6 weeks) will put winter tires on it.

 

[dfwatt]

Hello Tesla owners and Fans,

Few months back I got my new Tesla Model 3 SR+, like many enjoyed everyday and every minute driving it until today.
Today we got our 1st snow of the season here in Denver and today is my 1st snow day for my car.

Morning commute to work was really bad with icy conditions. I live in Boulder and work in Denver (about 20 mile on highway), initially for few miles in neighborhood it was really bad to drive as car was not getting enough traction but later once i got on to highway it was better.

At 80% of my commute I was driving around 40 mph (speed limit was 55 mph) suddenly my car lost traction & controlled dragged towards one side of highway and got to hit the divider . it got banged both front side and rear side (driver side), completely damaged below head light in front and rear wheel rim is broken with bend, seems like suspension is damaged.

Now i after this incident i am really worried and lost the confident about this car managing in snow and icy conditions, how to drive this car in Snowing city, I agree i wont go up into mountains much but still in foothills we get lot of snow. Need you guys suggestion with next options, do i need to trade this car to AWD or checking with Tesla to see if something wrong with traction system, Definitely will go with winter tires.

Thought to share my story here and looking forwarded to hear suggestion on how to manage in snow city with SR+

My family is out there, and this was described by them as an ice storm. Nothing has less friction than wet ice, other than Teflon with oil on it. You can't blame the car. You would have had slightly better luck with full winter tires, esp. Blizzaks with the foamy tread compound, which have some modest grip on ice. You were simply going too fast for the conditions. Traffic is frequently doing that, and leaving people with a misleading sense that a given speed is safe. On any patch of wet ice, anything above 3-5 mph can be too fast. You do need proper snows in Denver, all seasons, esp. with RWD just won't cut it. Get educated, be conservative esp if there is any possibility of black ice or mixed ice and snow, and you'll do better.

 

[RayCanuck]

Buy the best snow tires you can afford....
Tires are much cheaper than body repair.
Drive defensively

Have Nokian R3’s
Great in snow & ice
Quiet
Nice cushy ride to boot
Drove them on dry pavement on a 700km trip yesterday handled all speeds well, even nipped north of 170km once, felt solid.
Forecast is for snow over the passes on my return trip can’t wait to see how well they handle on my SR+

 

[camalaio]

Others have mentioned the winter tire thing (which you said you were going to get in the first post), I'll tackle the rest...

Getting into a winter driving incident sucks a lot. As you mentioned, it really makes you question either the safety of the vehicle or your ability to operate in such conditions in the future, which can impact how you feel from now on.

You are in one of the best vehicles in terms of traction control systems. The SR+ is a bit heavy at 3500 lbs, but is also one of the safest vehicles around. If you had another vehicle, a truck, an SUV, a hatchback, a tiny city car, anything else, you would have likely had the same thing happen. This includes AWD vs FWD vs RWD. Another vehicle may have even ended up with worse damage or led to you or another driver getting injured. You're unscathed at the end of the day and that's what matters.

The best thing you can do is what you're already going to do, which is to put winter tires on. Your car will now be able to help you control future situations like this better than it could have when this happened. Best wishes in your future winter driving endeavours with you Model 3!

Buy the best snow tires you can afford....
Tires are much cheaper than body repair.
Drive defensively

Have Nokian R3’s
Great in snow & ice
Quiet
Nice cushy ride to boot
Drove them on dry pavement on a 700km trip yesterday handled all speeds well, even nipped north of 170km once, felt solid.
Forecast is for snow over the passes on my return trip can’t wait to see how well they handle on my SR+

I feel compelled to point out that those tires are rated for only 190 km/h (lower than the stock tires), be careful please. Also, hello fellow Okanagan dweller!

 

[RayCanuck]

I’m aware of the speed rating & did stay below

 

[mswlogo]

This was this discussed At great length last winter. I was The first person on here that mentioned it was too rear bias last Fall. If you look up old Threads You’ll see there were a couple of people bashing me for that observation. Then people did videos of AWD 3’s on rollers that proved my theory was correct. After a full winner in Alaska honestly I have to say the only time I noticed the need the need for more front wheel traction Is when I was trying to make it slide. I’ve sort of dropped it since changing the F/R power distribution is out of my control until Tesla decides to address it.

I noticed the rear bias (delay in the front engaging) right from the get go as well. I thought it was a bit odd. With really good snows it's not an issue.
But it would be really nice if Tesla offered a "Snow Mode" that would turn that Bias off. And it should not be coupled to "Slip Mode" which covers different conditions.

I'd like to see that roller test done again on the Raven's (curious if it's changed with the increased efficiency). I had watched Model X Snows/Ice test videos that clearly had no Bias on earlier generation Model X. I'll know soon enough.

 

[mswlogo]

Buy the best snow tires you can afford....
Tires are much cheaper than body repair.
Drive defensively

Have Nokian R3’s
Great in snow & ice
Quiet
Nice cushy ride to boot
Drove them on dry pavement on a 700km trip yesterday handled all speeds well, even nipped north of 170km once, felt solid.
Forecast is for snow over the passes on my return trip can’t wait to see how well they handle on my SR+

R3's are fantastic snows, but they are not as quiet as other stud-less snow tires.

 

[Teedub21]

Did you just move to Boulder Colorado? It isn’t the car’s fault. Like many others here have said, FFS buy winter tires!!!!!!

 

[TrooperCA]

I wasn't driving my Tesla at the time but going up to the snow mountain and my car hit some black ice. Instantly went into a 4 wheel drift on a slight right bend. It was LIT. I had the time of my life for about 2-3 seconds. GF in the car did not have the same experience as me tho...

The secret is to power through with corrective steering...avoid the brakes. YMMV

 

[vickh]

I wonder if rain would have the same problem for RWD? or is black ice worse. Thankfully no ice here in PHX, but we do get rain..

 

[jbcarioca]

Front wheel drive, RWD, FWD all have the same problems in low traction situations. Both aquaplaning in water, glare ice/ black ice present special problems. Long ago I had a snow/ice/water driver training course that I was convinced I did not need, since I learned to drive in such conditions. It turned out I did need that course.

I still find that people normally pass me in inclement conditions. So be it.

As a young adult I drove frequently between Wester Kansa and the Front Range. The wildly dynamic conditions have always been challenging. Those conditions demand a high degree of caution, regardless of tires. Under such conditions I am very, very cautious about other drivers, most of whom seem to underestimate the risk.

FWIW, two years ago I was at Crater Lake overnight when an unexpected early snowfall happened overnight. I was in a borrowed RWD Tesla S with OEM tires.
I was snowed in, as was Land Rover with winter tires beside me. I rocked the Model S out, the RR driver bulldogged his way out and left ahead of me. I drove very slowly and deliberately, especially when the snow had packed and begun to melt at lower elevations. We stopped to help the RR driver who had slid off the road in the melting snow.

As my wet/winter driving instructor said repeatedly, ignore prevailing traffic speeds, ignore your risk of being late. Tires help, AWD helps get you going.
Abrupt moves nearly guarantee loss of control. Never, ever, follow traffic assuming that doing so will be safe.

One thing my instructor managed to teach me is that I am not such a good driver that I can ignore the limits of traction.

A long post to say that no matter how much one thinks one is a superior driver, a good winter driving course will teach that nobody is a good driver in bad weather. Then prudence is the only recourse.

Oddly, those lessons saved my life and my passengers when descending Mount Evans in a RWD station wagon with eight passengers. On a curve the outside rear tire blew. The car acted as though we were on glare ice. I instinctively followed the procedures drilled into me and we all survived...

To me my winter driving course was possibly the most important driving lessons I ever had.

 

[dfwatt]

I wonder if rain would have the same problem for RWD? or is black ice worse. Thankfully no ice here in PHX, but we do get rain..

Is this a serious question? Nothing is worse than ice except maybe wet ice. Traction in the rain as long as you're not hydroplaning is many orders of magnitude greater than traction on ice. All-wheel drive versus rear wheel drive does not matter much if at all if you're on ice.

 

[vickh]

Is this a serious question? Nothing is worse than ice except maybe wet ice. Traction in the rain as long as you're not hydroplaning is many orders of magnitude greater than traction on ice. All-wheel drive versus rear wheel drive does not matter much if at all if you're on ice.

why is AWD considered so much safer (myth? ) I understand more control but I guess tire traction is a bigger factor. (thankfully never driven in snow before)

 

[dfwatt]

why is AWD considered so much safer (myth? ) I understand more control but I guess tire traction is a bigger factor. (thankfully never driven in snow before)

It's not a myth. It's safer in terms of traction under traction compromised circumstances and it does allow you perhaps to recover better under snowy conditions and also not to get stuck under those kinds of conditions. AWD is not safer in relationship to braking on the other hand. Whether on traction compromised or traction rich surfaces. That's a function of your tires and how well they match up with the traction environment, and to a much lesser extent how good your anti-lock braking system is. At this point antilock systems are all fairly comparable.

 

[Paddy3101]

It's not a myth. It's safer in terms of traction under traction compromised circumstances and it does allow you perhaps to recover better under snowy conditions and also not to get stuck under those kinds of conditions. AWD is not safer in relationship to braking on the other hand. Whether on traction compromised or traction rich surfaces. That's a function of your tires and how well they match up with the traction environment, and to a much lesser extent how good your anti-lock braking system is. At this point antilock systems are all fairly comparable.

So, an experiment - Which does better in controlling the car, traction control due to Regen, or ABS due to friction brakes.
Assuming traction/stability control is applied to the amount of Regen?

Either way, if there is no traction, neither is going to help.