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1st Tesla - Shocked at process

Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
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Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
Buying a refresh long range, exactly what is it about that car that makes you an early adopter? They did a refresh 5 years ago.

This one should have been seamless. OK, maybe a few weeks out due to chip shortage or press fire, but months? How does one accept the lack of communication to boot?

While I mostly agree with your statement - I'd argue the new Model S is mostly all new, especially the innards. New chemistry, new cell layout, new BMS, new 12v battery, new screen, new seats, new sound system, new dash, new wheel/yoke, new cpu, new gpu. also sounds like structurally, new megacasting front and rear It's a pretty new car for the parts that are most critical.
 

Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
And yet you disagreed with my post. Haha

I disagreed with the sentiment because, while you are correct in terms of it being a bumpy ride, a good company that even pretends to care about customers will provide updates and communicates (see ford with their free charging offer/discount/etc.).

I figured it wouldn't be perfect knowing Tesla in terms of delivery time, no updates and no real adjusted timeline is a total and complete joke and just goes to show you what Elon thinks about the peasants that buy his products.
 
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aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,215
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Los Angeles
It’s still a new thing. New interior. New drivetrain (for plaid). New line. Probably new suppliers. Significant software changes to replace stalk. Anything new is likely to have a bumpy ride initially.
Not for a mature company. After the success of MY, and the new heat pump and other related complex changes, I'd expect better performance for the flagship vehicles.

I will bet the Mercedes electric S class EQS rollout will be nothing like the refresh, and they are new to the EV game.

And note, I was only talking about the LR. Minimal changes for that car.
 
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Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
Not for a mature company. After the success of MY, and the new heat pump and other related complex changes, I'd expect better performance for the flagship vehicles.

I will bet the Mercedes electric S class EQS rollout will be nothing like the refresh, and they are new to the EV game.

And note, I was only talking about the LR. Minimal changes for that car.

Again - agree mostly. But, definitely way more changes to the LR than you are stating. The battery pack and cell chemistry are all new design as well.
 

aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
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Los Angeles
Again - agree mostly. But, definitely way more changes to the LR than you are stating. The battery pack and cell chemistry are all new design as well.
We only know what was stated by Elon as to the pack changes. The cells are still 18650.

Mules are everywhere, driving around, probably not the pack causing the delay.

In January, he said deliveries in February. Now it is April, with no official update or explanation.

This is the kind of behavior I would expect from Nikola, the former company.
 

Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
We only know what was stated by Elon as to the pack changes. The cells are still 18650.

Mules are everywhere, driving around, probably not the pack causing the delay.

In January, he said deliveries in February. Now it is April, with now official update or explanation.

Is it April? I don't believe there's any official word. So, as of now, its just "10-14 weeks" from...?

But, regarding the battery pack changes: look at the LR battery pack on the Tesla website vs the old picture. It's all new design. From text on Tesla's website "New module and pack thermal architecture allows faster charging and gives you more power and endurance in all conditions." This is stated above the battery pack image and applies to both LR and Plaid. It's the same cells - but now the Model S charges faster (range-wise, not necessarily overall - I still think they reduced the battery size) than any other Tesla.

The car is also more aerodynamic - for LR & Plaid, which means structural changes and overall weight was reduced ~7%, This is not the same Model S someone bought in Jan.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Jan 18, 2014
12,907
10,919
Connecticut
Kinda off topic for this topic, but one tweet was along the lines of "if you have a dealer who does that, we can get you in contact with another dealer who doesn't". The second tweet said that dealers are their own companies. Obviously, there's nothing holding a dealer to ask more than MRSP for a car that's high in demand.

It was actually quite a bit more than that tweet. Ford Motor Company forced the dealer to reset the price:
 

wooter

Nou ik heb niet te klagen over Tesla support
May 3, 2017
5,702
4,088
Belgium
I will bet the Mercedes electric S class EQS rollout will be nothing like the refresh, and they are new to the EV game.
This is like you ordering the EQS last month, and complaining next month that Mercedes hasn't given you any updates on test drives yet.
 

aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,215
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Los Angeles
This is like you ordering the EQS last month, and complaining next month that Mercedes hasn't given you any updates on test drives yet.
Not sure what you mean. Plenty of communication from MB, with delivery dates.

Official rollout is April 15th for the EQS. Not sure if you can place orders in advance.

My point is, and I will leave it at this. Month long delays are not to be expected in a mature company, but if no communication, then that is totally unacceptable.
 
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wooter

Nou ik heb niet te klagen over Tesla support
May 3, 2017
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My point is, and I will leave it at this. Month long delays are not to be expected in a mature company, but if no communication, then that is totally unacceptable.
My brother has literally this problem with BMW, at this moment, for a model that has been in production for 2 years. Is your position on this that BMW is not a mature company?
 

aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,215
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Los Angeles
My brother has literally this problem with BMW, at this moment, for a model that has been in production for 2 years. Is your position on this that BMW is not a mature company?
I am sure one can cherry pick a problem from other mfgs. Why not include Boeing too?

Does BMW have said delivery problem with half of their motorcycle models?

Did the BMW CEO make a public promise on delivery?
 
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Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
So it boils down to Elon said it was going to be February and I cannot believe Elon was wrong, how immature.

Tesla should update customers on significant delays. That's called good customer service and awareness that it reflects on the brand and future buying decisions. It's one thing for the delay to be a few weeks, at a minimum, it's likely to be 2-3 months. Elon tweets stupid crap all of the time, he has the ability and opportunity to admit the delay. He hasn't, purposely. Ask yourself why.

He also stated there would be a call to go through all of the new features - there hasn't been one, why?

He also said that production was ready to go and deliveries would start in a few weeks - he completely lied to investors.

I, for one, cannot wait for real competition for Tesla. All of these antics are going to go bye-bye.
 

wooter

Nou ik heb niet te klagen over Tesla support
May 3, 2017
5,702
4,088
Belgium
All of these antics are going to go bye-bye.
My brother is on the receiving end of these antics with BMW now, and ~5 years we got the same runaround with a BMW we ordered, so I'd call assuming such antics will disappear highly naive.

Any new model change, even a refresh, comes with downtime for the line, and several months of slowly speeding up the line. If you order a new model or refresh 6 months after first production, you still are ordering a product of which the line is continuously improved, even at legacy car brands. There's no reason to believe that a 18 year old car company can get around this.
 

Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
My brother is on the receiving end of these antics with BMW now, and ~5 years we got the same runaround with a BMW we ordered, so I'd call assuming such antics will disappear highly naive.

Any new model change, even a refresh, comes with downtime for the line, and several months of slowly speeding up the line. If you order a new model or refresh 6 months after first production, you still are ordering a product of which the line is continuously improved, even at legacy car brands. There's no reason to believe that a 18 year old car company can get around this.

Who cares about BMW? This isn't a BMW forum, I don't give a *sugar* about BMW. The fact of the matter is, there's zero competition for Tesla right now. Whereas for BMW, if you don't like it, buy a MB or Audi.

If the Air or the R1T were available, I would 100% switch my order, zero doubt. But, there are no options for the rest of the year in this category of vehicle.
 

wooter

Nou ik heb niet te klagen over Tesla support
May 3, 2017
5,702
4,088
Belgium
If the Air or the R1T were available, I would 100% switch my order, zero doubt. But, there are no options for the rest of the year in this category of vehicle.
So the question is then: do you accept learning mistakes from these brands because they are younger, or will you keep them to the same high standard you want to keep Tesla on?

The Lucid Air is delayed, by the way, with about 3 to 6 months. But at least the CEO said so, so that's allright?
 

Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
So the question is then: do you accept learning mistakes from these brands because they are younger, or will you keep them to the same high standard you want to keep Tesla on?

The Lucid Air is delayed, by the way, with about 3 to 6 months. But at least the CEO said so, so that's allright?

"High standard" 😂😂😂

BTW - the Rivian was delayed too. The Mustang Mach E has also seen delays. The difference for Lucid, Rivian, and Ford? Yes, they made an announcement of the delay publicly and provided updated timelines. No one has a clue when the Model S will be available - its all speculation and guessing.

Also, yes, Lucid and Rivian are making their first cars, Tesla has 10 years of experience now, truly unacceptable to have unaddressed delays. Throw on there Tesla's history where they've burned customers many times in the past, yeah, they are on a short leash.
 

wooter

Nou ik heb niet te klagen over Tesla support
May 3, 2017
5,702
4,088
Belgium
Tesla has 10 years of experience now, truly unacceptable to have unaddressed delays.
So what's your opinion on the delays on the ID.3 from VW then? Unacceptable, realistic when starting a new model, or because it's not Tesla it's not relevant? Similar with delays for the Taycan, EQC, or any other EV or ICE that came out in the last ~5 years. Building cars is hard, and I'm amazed at the pushback from people claiming that it shouldn't.
 

Tigers

Member
Mar 10, 2020
673
1,403
Mount Everest, Nepal, Earth
So what's your opinion on the delays on the ID.3 from VW then? Unacceptable, realistic when starting a new model, or because it's not Tesla it's not relevant? Similar with delays for the Taycan, EQC, or any other EV or ICE that came out in the last ~5 years.

I don't know if you are purposely missing the point or...?

Let's make it simple: all OEMs have had and will always have delays. The difference is: those other companies have publicly addressed delays and provide updated timelines BEFORE missing the original timeline.

Tesla has missed the original timeline ~6 weeks ago, have not said a single word and have not provided any idea of when to expect the vehicle.

Do you understand the difference now?
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,256
6,779
Canyon Lake,CA
Everyone wants lots of conversations and constant reassurances, but they want these at no cost. It is a tremendous cost to Tesla for after the order chit chat and updates. Of course, Tesla wants to keep these to a minimum to reduce their unproductive costs, while the buyer wants someone there to pick up the phone every time they feel the need.
If the buyer had to pay for every communication with Tesla after the order, they also would be incentivized to keep them to a minimum as well.
 

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