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1st Tesla - Shocked at process

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There's no environmental impact to frequent car purchases.
  • Used cars have residual value and lifespan
  • Additional used cars on the secondary market increase supply, pushing down price
  • Lower prices on the secondary market will cannibalize new car sales
Therefore, buying new just means that my used car will effectively turn some other new-car buyer into a used-car buyer. The net number of cars in the universe remains constant.
That’s fair, of course if you consider the emissions from the transport of the vehicle from the factory to delivery and how that would be reduced if he didnt have one brought to him every year.

We’re talking about a bot that was saying I’m destroying the world by eating a steak.
 
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That’s fair, of course if you consider the emissions from the transport of the vehicle from the factory to delivery and how that would be reduced if he didnt have one brought to him every year.

We’re talking about a bot that was saying I’m destroying the world by eating a steak.

That's because you have cognitive dissonance as he would say from his high horse...
 
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Ford HQ is cracking down real hard on any dealers that are doing that.
Kinda off topic for this topic, but one tweet was along the lines of "if you have a dealer who does that, we can get you in contact with another dealer who doesn't". The second tweet said that dealers are their own companies. Obviously, there's nothing holding a dealer to ask more than MRSP for a car that's high in demand.
 
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Anyone who has ever ordered a car in Europe before a model change has the same experience, and I cannot imagine that Lexus would be able to do anything different:
  • A new upcoming model or refresh is never announced within the sales organisation. The sales people are there to sell the current cars, not to Osborne their current lineup by telling prospective buyers that a new model is coming so they should hold off their purchase
  • A new model also means there are seldom any demo cars available when introduced. Like someone said: there are enough people buying cars unseen, and even willing to pay a premium to do so, that even dealers from OEMs have to promise that they won't sell the first demo they receive and just outright deliver it to a paying customer
This has even happened to the Ford Mustang Mach-E, where dealers are now slapping extras on MRSP because they feel there are buyers willing to pay to get their Mach-E early. I'm sure this even happened with Lexus' LFA.
Ha, In Wisconsin seems like all Mustangs Mach E are in a Demo Program. Dealer can't sell until get 4000 miles. Makes it so there are cars for a test drive available. Sucks that can't buy one. Wait, kind of sounds like my X that has been on order since Jan 3rd.

Tesla giving me a chance to cross show the competion as X in MIA. Wasn't painful, salesman knew plenty about the Mach E and charging etc. Zero sales pressure at end of test drive. Could be because he can't even order one right now as delivery is like Model X, UNKNOWN.
 
Ha, In Wisconsin seems like all Mustangs Mach E are in a Demo Program. Dealer can't sell until get 4000 miles. Makes it so there are cars for a test drive available. Sucks that can't buy one. Wait, kind of sounds like my X that has been on order since Jan 3rd.

Tesla giving me a chance to cross show the competion as X in MIA. Wasn't painful, salesman knew plenty about the Mach E and charging etc. Zero sales pressure at end of test drive. Could be because he can't even order one right now as delivery is like Model X, UNKNOWN.
Correct, but don't forget that the Mustang Mach E was announced in November 2019 and deliveries started in December 2020. This means the Mach E timeline is about 4 months ahead of the Model S/X refresh. This can mean that once deliveries of the first Model S/X refresh start, you can add another 3 months for demos to appear at Tesla showrooms if Tesla would maintain the same timeline as Ford. This doesn't sound that unreasonable, does it?

Like Tesla, Ford has also a number of people who ordered the Mach E sight unseen, and those cars are being delivered and have been delivered. Anyone ordering a Mach E after a test drive will have to wait, or hope for a dealership who ordered one sight unseen without a customer ready, and risk an additional charge on the MRSP.
 
Yes, of course you're correct.

Tesla must be taking our trade-in Teslas and crushing them, instead of selling them to other buyers at a discounted price from new.

Silly me . . . .
Yes you’re correct Tesla is definitely not crushing them. But they are known to ship them all over the country.
So you’re contributing to pollution by having a new vehicle shipped to you AND possibly your used one being shipped elsewhere in the country.
Also by driving the vehicle you’re contributing to global warming through not only the electricity consumption but also tires.
 
Yes you’re correct Tesla is definitely not crushing them. But they are known to ship them all over the country.
So you’re contributing to pollution by having a new vehicle shipped to you AND possibly your used one being shipped elsewhere in the country.
Also by driving the vehicle you’re contributing to global warming through not only the electricity consumption but also tires.
Does an EV get into more hands when:

1. People only buy new and hold them for years?

2. buyers sell after the first couple years (taking the biggest initial hit), making it more affordable for the next person?

I believe an EV gets into more hands with option 2.

I also believe the pollution of shipping a vehicle is more than offset by someone new getting into an EV sooner.

I don’t have any numbers to back this up.

That being said, I think ICE should be used (by someone) until vehicle end of life.
 
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That being said, I think ICE should be used (by someone) until vehicle end of life.
This is a kind of off topic discussion, but it's proven that the best time to crush an ICE is right now. ICE's keep causing emissions as long as they're running. Replacing every ICE right now with an EV would be more beneficial for air quality and resources than to keep them running.
 
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This is a kind of off topic discussion, but it's proven that the best time to crush an ICE is right now. ICE's keep causing emissions as long as they're running. Replacing every ICE right now with an EV would be more beneficial for air quality and resources than to keep them running.
I realize the air quality is worse but the crushing of a perfectly good ICE is overall worse for the environment. Even with up to 80% recycled (based on weight), that’s still a lot of premature trash.
 
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I realize the air quality is worse but the crushing of a perfectly good ICE is overall worse for the environment. Even with up to 80% recycled (based on weight), that’s still a lot of premature trash.
The thing is: driving an ICE means you need to keep mining/pumping raw materials to keep them running. Crushing your ICE and buying an EV stops the material consumption pretty much after your EV is assembled.

 
The thing is: driving an ICE means you need to keep mining/pumping raw materials to keep them running. Crushing your ICE and buying an EV stops the material consumption pretty much after your EV is assembled.

Good point. But still difficult to quantify.
 
The thing is: driving an ICE means you need to keep mining/pumping raw materials to keep them running. Crushing your ICE and buying an EV stops the material consumption pretty much after your EV is assembled.

Except markets don't work that way. As long as there is demand for ICE vehicles, it's wasteful to destroy a perfectly-running one, since that will only result in a new one being built instead. (For very old and worn vehicles, they are emitting heavily and should be scrapped.)

I hear this argument from the anti-EV crowd, where they claim "building a car creates 3 tons of CO2 and therefore an EV won't be carbon neutral for 20 years" or some similar BS. They completely discount the residual value of the ICE car being replaced.
 
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