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[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

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Why the need to point out he is a republican and drives a truck? Are you insinuating that republicans are somehow anti Tesla? Or that because he drives a truck it somehow makes him less informed? What an utterly false stereotypical statement. :(
You are correct, this is just a stereotypical statement. Could very well be incorrect. But stereotypes are often based on statistical evidence. I have nothing against republicans (or democrats) and nothing against trucks (well, maybe I hate them before I get my CT). Just a rather stereotypical observation.
 
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I don’t think this will remain a mystery for long. At least one of those multi-million dollar homes likely had security cameras or a ring doorbell. It’s not gonna take much to get an idea of who was where. Investigators will also be talking to neighbors and co-workers. One thing we know about Tesla hobbyists - they love to talk about all the neat things they can do with their fancy toys.
Hello brother from another father! In your "Tesla hobbyists" line just replace Tesla with Ford and enjoy.

Regarding the cameras, I've asked if someone heard anything about security camera footage, and so far there are no security camera records that we know of.
But you gave me a thought... the owner was a rich guy and his BFF was a VERY rich guy if my brief investigations are correct. I wonder if the owner's relatives want to avoid conclusion he killed the VERY rich guy to avoid liability ... maybe ... so they might be interested in conclusion that Tesla killed them. In that case we may see no resolution of the mystery for a very long time.
 
I gave the full quote from the fire chief, so I didn't have to give my own interpretation (as the police did and got things wrong). But if you insist, they were only applying "small" amounts of water to keep the battery cool due to it being a crime scene, making it so they couldn't move or disassemble the car, and they didn't want it reigniting. The implication being if there were no occupants, even this process would have taken a lot less time (as they could disassembly the wreckage or move it somewhere safe where reignition wouldn't be an issue).

It wasn't on fire however during this process, as the police said and the media all reported. The fire was put out in minutes. The fire chief wouldn't have spoken out if they thought the police's statement was accurate and wasn't misleading.
Yes, if possible Tesla recommends jacking up the car and cooling down the battery from the bottom of the car to avoid thermal runoff, not to extinguish fire, but to prevent possible re-ignition.
 
I don’t understand where some people are getting the idea that activation requirements for AP and “FSD” are different. If it’s just from the wording in Elon’s recent tweet, I think they’re reading extra meaning into his words that simply isn’t there.
Right, AP and FSD should be the same in terms of activation requirements. FSD so far only adds the traffic light control (city streets is still forth coming).

FSD Beta however may be a different case. Elon has suggested they kicked people off the program based on the camera, so the activation requirements there might be different.
 
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How refreshing to see someone making a point of correcting errors in reporting in the news. This was published in Car & Driver, which was a bit of a surprising publication to me but applaud them for carrying it as it’s important for anyone researching BEVs and wondering about the reported length the fire fighters were fighting flames. This article should address a few questions I’ve seen raised here about incorrect info in statements made.

 
...What Elon said was that "basic Autopilot" will not turn on without lines...

It's assumed that this 2019 Model S Performance came with Autopilot as standard whether owners want it or not but that's only true since mid-April 2019.

If this car was before April 2019, someone (or something) must buy Autopilot in order to have it. Otherwise, it would just have a dumb cruise.
 
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You could engage TACC while sitting in the driver’s seat with the belt buckled behind your back, then lower the speed to zero and have the car come to a stop, then crawl into the back, and then have the passenger use the scroll wheel to accelerate.
Minor point, but TACC is activated and controlled with the stalk on the opposite side of the wheel on an S not the scroll wheel. If you lowered the speed with the stalk, the passenger would have to reach around the wheel to activate. Still possible, but more difficult. Although I have never tried to lower TACC to zero to see if the car comes to a full stop.

Although, these are all very elaborate scenarios, I am still with the acceleration demo gone wrong.
 
You are correct, this is just a stereotypical statement. Could very well be incorrect. But stereotypes are often based on statistical evidence. I have nothing against republicans (or democrats) and nothing against trucks (well, maybe I hate them before I get my CT). Just a rather stereotypical observation.
"But stereotypes are often based on statistical evidence."
Interesting.
They are also (usually in my experience...) based on BS (e.g. racist, small minded, homophobic, xenophobic, etc...). Can think of many more instances where stereotypes are utter BS than not. Maybe your experience is different. I don't know.
 
I don’t understand where some people are getting the idea that activation requirements for AP and “FSD” are different. If it’s just from the wording in Elon’s recent tweet, I think they’re reading extra meaning into his words that simply isn’t there.

This confounded me a couple days ago, but I've concluded that there is a very real possibility that the activation requirement for AP is different whether someone has Basic AP or FSD.

Why did I conclude this despite originally thinking that was just crazy talk?
  • Videos showing AP could be activated on roads with absolutely zero lane lines. People have been using these videos to claim Elon is either lying or doesn't know what he's talking about.
  • User reports from various comments claiming to have verified that an FSD equipped vehicle can activate AP on some roads without lanes, and they're not able to activate AP on the same roads with a basic AP only vehicle.
  • Rereading Elons tweet and realizing why he brought up FSD, and why he said "Standard Autopilot". The tweet only makes sense if the activation requirements are different depending on whether a person has FSD or not.
Next up is verifying it on my own car which does have FSD. I'm only about 50% convinced that I can get it to activate in residential areas without lanes. If I'm able to get it to activate then I'll conclude that the activation requirements are different as I haven't seen a video yet of basic AP activating on a residential road without lines.
 
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Minor point, but TACC is activated and controlled with the stalk on the opposite side of the wheel on an S not the scroll wheel. If you lowered the speed with the stalk, the passenger would have to reach around the wheel to activate. Still possible, but more difficult. Although I have never tried to lower TACC to zero to see if the car comes to a full stop.

Although, these are all very elaborate scenarios, I am still with the acceleration demo gone wrong.

I know it can not be activated at anything below about 25 mph. I think I have tried to lower the setting and not be able to as well, but I can't say that for sure.
 
I know it can not be activated at anything below about 25 mph. I think I have tried to lower the setting and not be able to as well, but I can't say that for sure.
I wonder if you have it programmed in the settings to have the initial set speed to match the speed limit, and 25 mph is simply the lowest speed limit commonly seen.(?)

Alternatively, you can set it to match your current speed instead of the speed limit. With it set that way in my Model 3, TACC will engage at an initial set speed as low as 10 mph. (No lower tho.)
 
Too much fake and unprofessional "journalism" on this subject. Autopilot can't be made to accelerate like what was done, doesn't activate in my cars without painted lines, doesn't activate in my car if out of the seat, drives super slow to the point I usually help it get up to speed, can't go more than 5 over in this 35 mph zone, won't navigate a sharp turn at high speed, and the list goes on. The Fire Department has stated that the 4 hours and 30000+ gallons is a false statement. The police department should retract their statement and build in a hefty budget for making false statements about Autopilot and the fire that could be perceived as defamation. Even a 1% drop in Tesla stock would bankrupt the entire county/city likely. News outlets should be held accountable for poor reporting other than writing a footnote retraction, but we primarily have tabloids and reality TV news, not actual journalism any more. That's not to say some aren't doing amazing work. The new industry as a whole, however, looks like grocery store checkout trash.

This accident in my opinion was the result of:

1. Bad choices. Trying to accelerate too quickly and losing control the doctor slammed his car into a tree. Alcohol may have been involved in a "hold my beer and watch this moment." After wrecking, the driver couldn't get out of the car from the front door due to damage or the 12v failed. He then climbed into the back. Again due to damage or the 12 v system failing, and he didn't open the speaker panel to release the door manually due to injury, lack of knowledge, and/or time being short. This is likely what happened.
2. Another person was driving and did get out. It happens. They might have been intoxicated and feared manslaughter or homicide charges. They are roaming around with minor injuries as the cars are fairly safe. The other two were injured and just didn't make it out.
3. Idiocy and hacking. The doctor found some ridiculous work around to bypass all Autopilot safety mechanisms to show off the feature as it was never intended. Search history on his computer and phone will likely show where he got this idea if so and would be evidence as to what lengths the driver took to bypass all safety measures. Autopilot was involved but only due to a person intentionally misusing the product to a degree that is reckless endangerment of the life of his passenger. This would take quite the work around (installing a pre-2019 autopilot software before some of the safety measures were put in place or having a third party hack and damage the autopilot to activate it in his car for free, bypassing the weight sensors, tricking the speed limit, uping the acceleration, etc.). If this is found to be true, the passenger's family should sue the driver's estate for this unsafe and deliberate act that resulted in his horrific and firey death.
4. Foul play. Someone killed these men by drugging them, loading them in the car, stepping on both pedals (two pedal alert shows and the car won't move), lodging a block of ice on the accelerator, and then letting off the brake. Car burns. Ice evaporates/sublimates. It may have been family, a disgruntled person, a psychopath, or a short seller. This is less likely than 1-3 but more likely than this being an Autopilot event as reported by the news.

Those of course are just theories. I will await proper investigation to determine the facts. Two people have died. Their family deserves to know the actual cause here. Yes, this is absolutely terrible, but Autopilot did not do this.
 
Regarding the cameras, I've asked if someone heard anything about security camera footage, and so far there are no security camera records that we know of.
But you gave me a thought... the owner was a rich guy and his BFF was a VERY rich guy if my brief investigations are correct. I wonder if the owner's relatives want to avoid conclusion he killed the VERY rich guy to avoid liability ... maybe ... so they might be interested in conclusion that Tesla killed them. In that case we may see no resolution of the mystery for a very long time.
Quite possible. Crazy how even after all the things we know about how to use and not use AP/FSD that people still blame the Tesla. Setting it from the back seat or passenger seat still should put fault clearly on the 'giver of the ride' (can't say driver) but it is so much flashier to say the Tesla crashed itself!!!
 
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Quite possible. Crazy how even after all the things we know about how to use and not use AP/FSD that people still blame the Tesla. Setting it from the back seat or passenger seat still should put fault clearly on the 'giver of the ride' (can't say driver) but it is so much flashier to say the Tesla crashed itself!!!

Good point. I seriously doubt any "hacking" took place but IF it did, it's simple abuse of a feature. It wouldn't be much different than turning on LKA on any other car, getting in the back seat, and pressing the accelerator with a broom handle. I'd still give it a 90%+ chance it was a 0-60 run gone wrong given what real Tesla owners know about the system. It's interesting to play armchair detective but I'm willing to wait for the official investigation to be complete.

Mike
 
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I tested this today and I was able to engage autopilot without weight on the seat. So #2 is dead. The seatbelt is irrelevant. You can buckle that without it being around a person.

So there is not a bunch of insane replies, I was in the driver's seat, but I lifted all my weight off the seat only having weight on the floor and the consol. I used my left hand to activate the autopilot and it was very happy. It was very unhappy as soon as I unbuckled the seat belt. I think I had to shake the wheel to cause autopilot to release before it would stop squawking. Fastening the seatbelt and letting it know my hand was on the wheel was not enough.
How were you able to shift from P to D without sitting in the driver seat?
 
I gave the full quote from the fire chief, so I didn't have to give my own interpretation (as the police did and got things wrong). But if you insist, they were only applying "small" amounts of water to keep the battery cool due to it being a crime scene, making it so they couldn't move or disassemble the car, and they didn't want it reigniting. The implication being if there were no occupants, even this process would have taken a lot less time (as they could disassembly the wreckage or move it somewhere safe where reignition wouldn't be an issue).

It wasn't on fire however during this process, as the police said and the media all reported. The fire was put out in minutes. The fire chief wouldn't have spoken out if they thought the police's statement was accurate and wasn't misleading.

I spoke to someone locally who is involved with the Township. They spoke to another representative of the Fire Department who confirmed what Palmer Buck said:

Fire was out quickly.

Car was doused for hours to contain flare ups and cool the smoldering wreckage.

Tesla was contacted to ask what to do with the wreckage of the battery from an environmental standpoint.