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[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

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I am totally discussed with the news media. Seems none of the media publishes facts on ANY story anymore, just garage that make false headline stories...

Mirror

Sun

9News

CNN

ETC...........................

As I see some of the bad headlines for Tesla on this accident are now being pulled.

RIP to the 2 who lost their lives, how & why we may never know.

M
You also need to blame the Constable that told the media that he was 100% positive that the car had no driver and that it took 4 hours and millions of gallons of water to extinguish. 🙄
 
Elon has mentioned that the airbag module is constantly recalculating the optimum airbag deployment strategy based on the weight, and position of that weight, in the seat. So it would make sense that no weight would cause it to not deploy. 1) Why waste the airbag if it isn't needed, 2) if it is low weight it could be a child the airbag could kill..

I remember seeing this message on an early PC when the bootup failed:

KEYBOARD NOT FOUND PRESS ANY KEY TO CONTINUE

Software can reach funny conclusions sometimes, particularly when processing data from sensors. Most modern code will range-check sensors against realistic numbers and fall back to a default behavior when out-of-range.

If a car crashes at high speed while the weight sensor for the driver reads "zero", then the most likely scenario is that the sensor is faulty. Conversely, I would be very concerned if I thought my airbag deployment was dependent upon a single wire under the seat.
 
Regarding @Needsdecaf’s posted tweet link in #769 above.

I posted a while back in this thread something from Montgomery Sherrif’s police log or something like that. I remember thinking that the Constable was from Harris County (neighboring county to the south of Montgomery) and it seemed that the responders were from Montgomery. I know sometimes there can be cross help so kind of noted it and let it pass. If Harris County got involved because the passenger was a businessman/resident from that county I can see that I guess. Also If the Constable didn’t get called to the scene until later that night might explain the 2+ hour time difference in the media and statements and lack of clarity on how the fires efforts were handled, not his department so to speak.

The last section of that tweet has me thinking they might be looking at a possible driver who left the vehicle, something we early on considered here. Guess investigative time will hopefully resolve all the questions. Will be very interested to see if Tesla logs show a driver in that seat. If we hear of an arrest in the meantime, guess we might know the answer to that before the agency preliminary and final reports come out. A driver in the car who left the crash would be the simplest answer to all our questions.

I just re-read the tweet. I didn't even notice what he said about MCSO being responding / having jurisdiction. I believe there may be confusion here. He is mistaken when he says MCSO has jurisdiction . The property is in Harris County. HCSO would have Jurisdiction, not MCSO.

Here's what you need to understand, and why there is confusion. The nearest fire station is The Woodlands Station 7. I'm not sure the "ownership" of the fire company, however, the The Woodlands is odd. It's an unincorporated Township. It's not incorporated, nor is it an HOA. PLUS, and this is the big point, it's in Two Counties; Montgomery County and Harris County. Much is split, however I believe that the Fire Dept is all controlled through the Township, the main portion of which is in Montgomery County. That may be the confusion for the crossover between the counties?

Nontheless, the property and location of the crash is in Harris. MCSO would have no jurisidction here. But that doesn't mean that Woodlands Fire and MCHD wouldn't have responded. There is a lot of cross jurisdictional sharing when practical.

He also posts further tweets about who responded, with pictures of ambulances and such.

I believe the main takeaway is that it may be possible that Precinct 4 Constables (of which Mark Hermann is the boss) may not have been the initial responders, and that Constable Hermann may have more distance from the actual findings than his statement may let on.

Sorry if confusing. It took about 2 years after moving here to figure out how it all worked.
 
Elon has mentioned that the airbag module is constantly recalculating the optimum airbag deployment strategy based on the weight, and position of that weight, in the seat. So it would make sense that no weight would cause it to not deploy. 1) Why waste the airbag if it isn't needed, 2) if it is low weight it could be a child the airbag could kill.

If a car crashes at high speed while the weight sensor for the driver reads "zero", then the most likely scenario is that the sensor is faulty. Conversely, I would be very concerned if I thought my airbag deployment was dependent upon a single wire under the seat.
All cars I've had in the past couple of decades certainly know if there is groceries, briefcase, backpack, etc in the front passenger seat and they display an icon showing that the airbag is turned off. In other words, it seems very very common to disable an airbag if it doesn't think there is a normal sized adult there. Certainly there are specific regulations on this and all manufacturers have to comply. (wonder what the regs say about the drivers seat vs passenger seats (both front & back) for all the side impact, seat, etc airbags.).
 
(Not sure if this might've been mentioned already, but...)

It just occurred to me that, in the unlikely event that the guys actually buckled the driver's seat belt to enable use of TACC or AP without being seated in the driver's seat, the seat belt's metal latch plate should still be connected to the buckle -- or at least whatever metallic pieces of it are remaining from the fire, right? (Unless melting away the plastic parts of the buckle assembly could somehow release the latch plate? Not sure what that internal buckle mechanism looks like.)

Could be a conclusive piece of evidence for investigators in case complete data logs are not recoverable.
 
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Personal responsibility has left our society. CR is for FOS.

I'm waiting on their article on how Dodge should cap all HellCats at 90 mph because they keep out running police.
Did Dodge ever tweet that it's impossible to go above 90 in their cars?
The issue here is that Elon said it's not possible to keep AP on without someone in the seat. It turns out it is. As long as the seatbelt is buckled, you can get out of the seat and it stays on. This all may be perfectly logical and correct from an engineering perspective, but its pretty clearly refutes Elon's statement and makes him look a bit rash, silly and uninformed about the safety critical technologies he's selling to millions of people.
 
The issue here is that Elon said it's not possible to keep AP on without someone in the seat. It turns out it is. As long as the seatbelt is buckled, you can get out of the seat and it stays on. This all may be perfectly logical and correct from an engineering perspective, but its pretty clearly refutes Elon's statement and makes him look a bit rash, silly and uninformed about the safety critical technologies he's selling to millions of people.

Maybe I missed it, but where did Elon say that? (I don't think he ever said anything like that.)

And of course we have known for ever that it isn't true. The proof is on YouTube of many idiots filming themselves getting out of the drivers seat while going down the freeway.
 
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The last section of that tweet has me thinking they might be looking at a possible driver who left the vehicle, something we early on considered here. Guess investigative time will hopefully resolve all the questions. Will be very interested to see if Tesla logs show a driver in that seat. If we hear of an arrest in the meantime, guess we might know the answer to that before the agency preliminary and final reports come out. A driver in the car who left the crash would be the simplest answer to all our questions.
One thing that looks weird (well, one of the things) - is what the family did.

Apparently someone (brother in law?) was outside when the car was backed out. It would have taken seconds to crash after that. What did the person do - he might have been still outside or just gone back in - did he run to the scene / call 911 ... strange if these didn't happen within minutes of the crash. Esp. if there was a fire that followed the crash.
 
People who hack the car trying to get Darwin awards are responsible.
I'm not saying Elon is responsible. But he was wrong in saying lane lines and butts in the seat are needed.
I don't think getting out of the seat without unbuckling the seatbelt is "hacking" the car. That's like saying my 2 year old is "hacking" their car seat when they wiggle out of it if the belts are too loose.
 
Did Dodge ever tweet that it's impossible to go above 90 in their cars?
The issue here is that Elon said it's not possible to keep AP on without someone in the seat. It turns out it is. As long as the seatbelt is buckled, you can get out of the seat and it stays on. This all may be perfectly logical and correct from an engineering perspective, but its pretty clearly refutes Elon's statement and makes him look a bit rash, silly and uninformed about the safety critical technologies he's selling to millions of people.

The issue here its personal responsibility. The last thing I thought about when I heard about this story was what "Elon Said".

The first thing I thought about? What a bunch of dumbasses......

So what you're telling me is that as long as Elon comes out and says: "Yes, you can be in the passenger seat and the car will drive itself" then all this is perfectly fine?

Again, should we hold Dodge responsible for making cars that outrun police cars, or how about Ford that makes cars that tend to kill people after cars and coffee....... Of course the answer is NO.... it's personal responsibility.

Stop making Elon Musk to be the end all be all for these cars. The man is ambitious but obviously he didn't account for the stupidity out there.
 
It seems to me that the fact that all cars can go 90+ despite no roads in America where 90+ is legal is a far, far greater safety threat than the fact that someone in a Tesla can tie weights to the steering wheel, buckle the seatbelt in the driver's seat, and go on a maniacal autopilot joyride. But I don't see anybody suggesting that cars should have safety mechanisms to prevent them from going 90+. That would make a lot more sense then trying to impose more safety mechanisms on Tesla's autonomous driving systems.
 
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Nope, he didn't say that. He said the research was better than the WSJ. He didn't say it was 100% accurate.
So, what part of this guys "research" was better than WSJ's? The hands on wheel sensor is not a fixed 10 seconds, and 10 seconds is more than enough to crash. You can easily crash at the speed limit if you don't turn. Someone needing to be in the seat was wrong. Elon specifically said lane lines are needed, which they are not. Doesn't sound like a lot of correct "research" to me.
Elon clearly wanted to indicate that this crash couldn't have been on AP because of protections Tesla has. But the facts show it could. Why didn't Elon say "we do our best, but no system is perfect against someone that really wants to fool it" instead of trying to indicate that the WSJ is a bunch of dummies?
I personally didn't think about "what did Elon say" either until Elon actually said something and inserted himself into this.
 
The car would not get up to speed that quickly with AP.

And if the guy floored it and then turned on AP, they would have been well past the accident point by the time he got in the back seat.

I think the truth will be much simpler than what many here are coming up with.

I’m thinking he got in the front seat and floored it. Crashed. Couldn’t get out of front due to wedged in trees or damaged door. Crawled in back but didn’t get out in time. Or there’s a 3rd person.
 
One thing that looks weird (well, one of the things) - is what the family did.

Apparently someone (brother in law?) was outside when the car was backed out. It would have taken seconds to crash after that. What did the person do - he might have been still outside or just gone back in - did he run to the scene / call 911 ... strange if these didn't happen within minutes of the crash. Esp. if there was a fire that followed the crash.

I have to say at the time I kind of thought it would have been natural for this to have been a “guys” thing to do that night, you know all going to test drive the car. Leave the women behind to do their thing. So thought there could have been a relative, older son, other friend possibly in the driver’s seat, someone even inexperienced with the car. Someone unaccustomed to the instant torque.

The whole jumping in the back seat explanation just hasn’t sat well (and why would he then buckle in in the few seconds he had before reaching the trees?). That’s when I then considered climbing in the back after the accident to escape as likely. If found buckled in however, that would be illogical after the accident and why the “certainty” comment on no driver would make more sense. Given the initial “no one in the driver’s seat” it was an easy thing to picture a third party was involved although there was the suggestion or observation made to investigators that autopilot was being tested, so presenting a ready-made theory of how that would be possible. I just don’t buy it from these two guys given the short distance and time.

People do things when they panic they sometimes can’t take back. Speaking up and doing likely jail time, not like it would bring anyone back. Families already suffering. I know we have to wait for this investigation to play out but wish additional details about what they found could be published to end some of the speculation.