I think you will find that it doesn't actually disengage until you provide torque on the steering wheel or you disengage via the brake pedal or AP stalk.
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[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied
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I think you will find that it doesn't actually disengage until you provide torque on the steering wheel or you disengage via the brake pedal or AP stalk.
It's possible. I just had it happen that one time and haven't bothered trying to recreate it. I think we have it on video so I could probably go back and relive the moment.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
yes, that's the same result I had out on a desert interstate. And that was also about 2 years ago.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If it can't keep the lane / figure out where the lane is, it will disengage. I suspect if the turn is too sharp for the speed (so it can't turn to keep within the lane) it will disengage.
Looks like it beeped a lot and I had to take over but I don't remember if there were flashing red hands or not.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
At this point - we have no way of knowing which of those is more likely. Basically it boils down to is someone playing prank or do they have real information.
Personally if I have this kind of information - I'd call NTSB/FBI or someone at WaPO/NYT, rather than tweet it. But, I'm old fashioned.
I wonder whether this is a friend of one of the kids in the neighborhood. Then, I can see why the person would choose to go on twitter.
I’m sure NTSB/NHTSA interviewed neighbors on the street and asked for any security camera footage. Would be part of their thorough investigation. So if there was a video they would already know about it and have it. With local police as part of initial investigation a video could have been turned over later, but I think investigation rules are parties to an investigation don’t speak publicly about anything unless authorized by NTSB/NHTSA. They’d prefer everything come out after, at one time, to avoid what has happened here with conflicting reports and statements. If video exists it may not come out until the preliminary report is released; and not necessarily like the constables office is sitting on the info. If a friend of one of the neighbors heard from them they turned over footage, well that would be outside of the investigating parties so entirely possible it exists.
Normally an accident where a car crashed and even caught fire wouldn’t garner so much worldwide attention. I think it was wrong or at least highly inadvisable for police giving such strong statements about Autopilot, how it might be caused by no driver in control and it diminished personal owner responsibility in this to a large degree. Suspect police were aware irresponsible drivers have done things to circumvent the car on AP and so assumed it was so here. As a result it cast aspersion on Tesla and it’s developing system when it might not have been at all what it seemed to them. As someone said it has publicly damaged Tesla, car owners and shareholders to some degree and really nothing that comes out after will erase all the misconceptions and damage done already. Badly handled and am happy that the fire department immediately clarified from their end what actually transpired.
Normally an accident where a car crashed and even caught fire wouldn’t garner so much worldwide attention. I think it was wrong or at least highly inadvisable for police giving such strong statements about Autopilot, how it might be caused by no driver in control and it diminished personal owner responsibility in this to a large degree. Suspect police were aware irresponsible drivers have done things to circumvent the car on AP and so assumed it was so here. As a result it cast aspersion on Tesla and it’s developing system when it might not have been at all what it seemed to them. As someone said it has publicly damaged Tesla, car owners and shareholders to some degree and really nothing that comes out after will erase all the misconceptions and damage done already. Badly handled and am happy that the fire department immediately clarified from their end what actually transpired.
How do we know the car crashed 8 feet up the tree? If you are talking about the white scrape marks, those were almost certainly created after the fire was put out, probably by some rescue equipment. The whole tree up to the top of the photo is black from soot and if those scrapes happened at the time of impact before the fire started, they wouldn't be white: they'd be charred over like the rest of the tree. Those white marks would have had to be scraped into the charred tree after the fire was put out.
Mike
BTW saw in the news that Taptes is selling a device to circumvent Tesla’s steering wheel safeguards. I was shocked to see this was a product they would even consider selling. Should be pulled (well never even listed in the first place). Hope they get shut down over this by angry customers of theirs. Shows no regard for owner safety. I would never ever buy from them and believe TMC has pulled links to them for other reasons in the past.
www.teslarati.com
Third-party Tesla accessory store begins sale of Autopilot steering wheel cheat device
UPDATE: The manufacturer of the device, TapTes, removed the device from its online store and said it will destroy all units of the Autopilot counterweight. A third-party manufacturer of Tesla accessories is taking advantage of the recent Consumer Reports’ trick test by offering a detachable...
www.teslarati.com
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I suspect police has no idea about such details - just generic misconception that Tesla can do "self driving".
Until now, I've assumed the doctor unbuckled himself and his unconscious passenger, got himself into the rear to try to escape, potentially with the plan to pull along the passenger. He was overcome by smoke so died in the back seat.
The idea of thrown to the back of the car reminded me of seat-back failures. I wondered if the driver ended up in the back because the seatback failed so there was no seatback behind him when the crash settled.
My first google search came up with this article, which lists the Model S as a car, that in the past, had problems with this.
unsafeproducts.com
The idea of thrown to the back of the car reminded me of seat-back failures. I wondered if the driver ended up in the back because the seatback failed so there was no seatback behind him when the crash settled.
My first google search came up with this article, which lists the Model S as a car, that in the past, had problems with this.
Seatbacks That Collapse in a Car Accident | Unsafe Products
Info on the exact nature of this problem, vehicles known to have the problem, and what you can do if you've been injured as a result of a seatback failure.
unsafeproducts.com
rxlawdude
Active Member
The physics don't fit. And I believe the driver's seatback was reported to be up. One of the reasons this whole debate is about - driver exiting the seat and moving back. If the seatback did fail, it would flop forward in a frontal collision, that could reduce the ability of the driver to have moved to the back seat (being the driver would be pinned beneath the flopped seat and the steering wheel, not seen here).Until now, I've assumed the doctor unbuckled himself and his unconscious passenger, got himself into the rear to try to escape, potentially with the plan to pull along the passenger. He was overcome by smoke so died in the back seat.
The idea of thrown to the back of the car reminded me of seat-back failures. I wondered if the driver ended up in the back because the seatback failed so there was no seatback behind him when the crash settled.
My first google search came up with this article, which lists the Model S as a car, that in the past, had problems with this.
Seatbacks That Collapse in a Car Accident | Unsafe Products
Info on the exact nature of this problem, vehicles known to have the problem, and what you can do if you've been injured as a result of a seatback failure.
Neither of these reports support your theory:
- Tesla recalled Model S vehicles in June 2013 because of defective rear seat latches that allowed movement of the seat during a collision.
- Tesla also recently recalled Model X SUVs in April of 2016 because of defective rear seat latches that allowed the seat to fold during a collision.
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favo
P3D+ owner
I think that is practically impossible, at least for the side windows, since they are too strong. You might have better luck with the windshield, but still difficult.
About 30 years ago, a friend and I happened upon a car that had driven off the road and through a parking lot, only to run into the side of a brick building. The driver was slumped over the wheel. I ran to call 911 at a business down the road (no cell phones). My friend tried to break the window and extricate the guy. He found a brick and hurled it at the window 8 times, but it did not break. Ultimately the police arrived and got the guy out. I think the conclusion was that he died of a heart attack while at the wheel.
If you need to break a window, you need to use something hard and pointy to apply force to a small area of the glass, causing it to fracture. That is why glass hammers and the like all have pointy bits. (Here I'm referring to the tempered glass typically found on side windows, as opposed to the laminated glass of the windshield.)
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I wondered if we knew that. Since the A and C pillars burned away, I'd be surprised if there was anything left of the seat to know its position.
I saw that it was the rear seats in the S. I'm just pointing to that as an example of Tesla being called out in the past for their poor choices materials or safety engineering compromises.
That sounds like BS unless it was a cyber truck or something. I have personally broken a car window with my foot (Ford Edge, by mistake, sort of). I have seen plenty of people in fights break car (side) windows out with everything from rocks to bare fist (guy was clearly on something and was cut up bad).
favo
P3D+ owner
Well, that's the way it happened. Perhaps the windows were thicker back then, but the basic principle still applies. It's much easier to break the window when the force is applied to a small area (point). Also better to hit the corner of the window where it's stiffened by the frame. Apparently car thieves/jackers can break a side window by throwing a small ball bearing at it. My friend may have hit the window in the middle with the broad side of the brick, or whatever. I'm not saying there's no way to break a car window with a brick or your foot, just that it's harder than people might think. Good technique and strength will help, but a spring-loaded punch tool like Resqme or one of the glass hammers will be easier, especially if you're injured, infirmed and/or can't release the seatbelt.
Until now, I've assumed the doctor unbuckled himself and his unconscious passenger, got himself into the rear to try to escape, potentially with the plan to pull along the passenger. He was overcome by smoke so died in the back seat.
The idea of thrown to the back of the car reminded me of seat-back failures. I wondered if the driver ended up in the back because the seatback failed so there was no seatback behind him when the crash settled.
My first google search came up with this article, which lists the Model S as a car, that in the past, had problems with this.
Seatbacks That Collapse in a Car Accident | Unsafe Products
Info on the exact nature of this problem, vehicles known to have the problem, and what you can do if you've been injured as a result of a seatback failure.
Seats were up and burned that way. Screen grab from KPRC2 coverage that night.
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ev_go123
Member
I think it probably depends on a lot of factors. Original window strength, coatings/tinting, window age, amount of force, surface area of pressure, compressibility of impact object, etc etc. I know of side windows surviving multiple multiple blows of a mini sledge being throw a them (in a junk yard), and I'm sure some also break easily. I think it just depends. That all being said, given the men were in their 60-70's, they might not have had the strength to break a window, especially after a violent crash.
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