Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

20 or 30 amp breaker for tesla wall charger

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Uh. If somebody installed that plug and put the magic words, 30A, on it, then I betcha there was originally in that house a 30 A breaker on that line, wires sized for 30 A on that line, and somebody later probably swapped out a clothes drier that was rated for a 30 amp circuit (24 A max load) for another clothes drier that was designed to be hooked into a 40 amp circuit, with max 32 A load. Which promptly started making the original 30 A breaker trip at random intervals.

Of course, the right thing to have done would be to pull new wires and put in a 40 A breaker, but I’m betting our Florida Man homeowner went out, got a 60 A breaker that, of course, wouldn’t trip, and put that in. Ta-da! Saved a grand or two!

Now we got wires in the wall that are really rated for max load current of 24 A, hooked up to a 60 A breaker, and you’re running 32 A on it.

Ok. You want to risk your life, it’s up to you. You got a significant other or any children? How about their lives?

I said before: check out the wire gauge. If you don’t know how to do it, get an electrician and make sure your wiring is safe. You don’t get do-overs on this one.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: jjrandorin
Answers:
  1. You have a 60A breaker installed on a NEMA14-50 socket. That's vaguely illegal; such a socket is only really good for 50A. The general idea is that the breaker, the wire between the breaker and the socket, and the socket should all have the same amperage rating.
  2. Given that somebody did the installation, then there's all sorts of questions, the biggest one of which is whether the wire between the breaker panel and the socket is actually rated for 60A. Or 50A. Or whatever. Did whoever did this leave a note as to what AWG wire was used?
  3. Next: If your life wasn't complicated enough, there's this funny bugger thing about the NEMA14-50 socket and the National Electric Code. Apparently, people installing clothes driers that pulled down 40A (max) wanted to use the NEMA14-50 socket. So, somehow, it became legal to use (a) a 40A breaker, (b) 40A-rated wire, and (c) and NEMA14-50 socket, the latter of which is good for 50 A - but nothing else would be. Just so we're clear, here: Breakers are cute, breakers are awesome, and they save lives all over. But they're emergency devices: Sure, they're guaranteed to open a circuit on the first massive overcurrent, thank you UL, but, as a regular thing, they become decidedly unreliable. So, it's really a bad idea to depend upon a breaker to pop on a regular basis.
  4. Now comes the the deal on the wire. Say that whoever did the install used wire good for 60A. That's a big assumption. But, for the moment, say it's true. And you have this idea that you'd like to up the current into your Tesla by installing a Tesla Wall Connector (TWC) or some other commercially available wall connector for Juicebox or somebody. If you make a direct connection from the wire into your desired Wall Connector of choice, and the wire is really good for 60A, then you're all set. Put in the Wall Connector, leave the 60A breaker (which is protecting itself and the wire, it's not good to have wire get so hot it catches the house on fire and all) where it is, and you're good to go.
  5. Next: Suppose that the maniac who put that 60A breaker in there used wire that was good for X, where X < 60A. Then it behooves you to get that 60A breaker the heck out of there and replace it with a breaker that's also good for X. So, if it's 50A wire, then put in a 50A breaker. If it's a 40A wire (which would be another evil, because that's a NEMA14-50 50A socket), then it's a 40A breaker for you. If it's less, call the building inspector police on the guy because the sucker just tried to kill you and yours. I'm not kidding about "trying to kill", electrical house fires are a bitch.
  6. Next: You're using a UMC. That's cool. Probably with the NEMA14-50 adapter stuck in the end. Also cool. Now's the time to introduce you to the 80% rule: National Electric Code Says: Max steady load on a circuit is at most 80% of the breaker/wire/socket rating. That means if you're using the 120 VAC adapter (NEMA5-15), that gets plugged into a 15A breakered circuit. The UMC knows about the NEC: Max current draw at 120 VAC with that adapter will be 80% of 15A, or 12A. So, you're using a NEMA14-50 adapter.
    1. Tesla knows about the 80% rule. They also know that there are NEMA14-50 sockets that are backed up by 40A breakers. And the UMC, on its own, can't tell if it's 50A or 40A back there.
    2. So, right off: The most 240 VAC current you'll ever be able to draw with that NEMA14-50 adapter will be 32A, which is 80% of 40A. Safety first!
    3. On top of that: Max current the UMC will do with any adapter is 32A. Safety or no Safety.
  7. Next: Let's suppose you're playing with Tesla Wall Connectors today. They come in two flavors:
    1. Direct wired. If you have a modern Tesla that's Long Range or P, those cars have three (3), count 'em, three, 16A 240 VAC to internal DC voltage inverters. Such a car can pull down 48A at 240 VAC. I have one of those kinds of cars: I get 45 Miles of Charge per Hour. If you have a SR, that has a smaller battery, Tesla sized the inverters for the battery size. Instead of three 16A inverters, such a car has two 16A inverters. Maximum current one can draw is 32A. (Which, interestingly, is what the UMC can do..)
    2. Socketed. There are variants of the TWC that, instead of being wired directly into the breaker panel, have a NEMA14-50 socket on them.
      1. The good news: Easy to install. Bolt the TWC to the wall, put the wire into the NEMA14-50 socket, and you're there.
      2. The bad news: a) You're going to get a maximum of 40A (80% of 50A) charging. Worse than 48A, better than the 32A with the UMC. b) Make sure that the wire to that socket supports 50A. And you'll want to change the breaker, for sure, to 50A as well
A couple of points about Max Charging Current and such.

First: The UMC, TWC, or $RANDOM Juicebox or whatever has a microcontroller in it. Said microcontroller talks to the car's computer and tells the car's computer how much current and voltage the UMC/TMC/Juicebox can supply. The car then looks at its navel, figures out how much current it can accept, picks the lowest number, and that's the current the car will charge at.

How the UMC figures out the numbers is simple: It looks at the adapter that's plugged into it and figures it out from there. Got a NEMA14-50 adapter? It tells the car it's on a 40A circuit. Got a NEMA5-15 adapter? It tells the car, "120 VAC and 15A circuit". You get the drill.

A true-blue TWC has ways of being set. The direct-wired one in my house is a Gen II. One literally sets the switches in the TWC to tell it what kind of circuit it's hooked up to. Weirdly enough, one of the sets of switch settings is for 200A (!) service; apparently, early-model S's could pull down 160A or something. Mine is set to a 60A circuit (and, yeah, there's a 60A breaker on my panel), which gets me 48A (80% of 60A) charging.

My understanding is that current TWCs get their "switches" set during commissioning, using some kind of Web GUI. There's instructions in the TWC manual. So, if one has a socketed TWC, or the breaker panel supports at most a 40A breaker, or X, then the TWC is told that it's on an "X" breaker/socket/whatever, and that's what it communicates to the car. Very similar games are played with Juiceboxes et al. Once the CPU in the wall connector knows what kind of circuit it's on, it tells the car that info, and the car figures out how much current to draw.

So, let's summarize:
  1. If you have 60A wire, 60A breaker, and you install a direct-connected TWC (or whatever) that can handle 60A service, then you tell the TWC by switch or by GUI that it's on a 60A circuit. And you don't change the breaker, but you do ditch that NEMA14-50 socket. At which point, if you got the right car, you may get 48A charging. If you got the wrong car (i.e., SR-range), none of first part of this changes, but the car's only going to suck down 32A, that being all it's capable of. You still wouldn't have to change the breaker or anything.
  2. If you don't have 60A wire OR you're planning on using that NEMA14-50 socket, then you change out that 60A breaker for a 50A breaker. Or less, if the wire won't support 50A. You're going to have to turn the breaker in the panel off, get the cover off that NEMA14-50, and stare at the wires in there. If you're lucky, you'll be able to see the AWG size on the insulation. If you're not lucky, you'll have to measure the wire diameter. See here for a lecture on the subject; it looks like for 60A service you'd need a minimum of 4 AWG wire.
What you don't need to do, unless somebody put some really dinky (as in, completely unsafe) wire in there, is change your 60A breaker to 30A or something.

Let us all know how things are working out over there.
Thanks for the info, but you've gone WAY over my head on some points :-D I'll respond with what I know in the meantime since I'm at work until midnight.

1) The adapter says NEMA 14-50 on it, yet between the prongs it says it's on 30A.
2) That someone is an electrician buddy, he only had a 60A breaker on him when he came over, but after the fact gave me a 30A breaker. Going off #1, it sounds more like I need a 40A breaker or maybe even a 50A breaker for some headroom. 6-3 wire was used for the install, 25' roll cost about $150 but we only used 17'.
3) Not sure how to respond here.
4) See #3...he installed the 60A breaker on the information given from me that the 14-50 connector I have was 50A, but as mentioned already, somehow it's on 30A, which I figured out after the fact. He gave me the analogy ofa garden hose and too much water in that using the bigger breaker could allow too much power to flow and could cause a backup in the cable itself, overheating basically, which is what prompted the question.
5) See #2 and #3
6) Yes, it is the UMC since it came with the car. Seeing that I work nights, it charges from around 12:30am and is always ready to go when I need it again around 1pm. Sounds like 40A vs 50A breaker is the way to go, I just wasn't sure if I needed some extra headroom.
7) I've got a '17 P100D
 
Just to be clear

  • Is is against code to use a 60-amp breaker with a 14-50 outlet since this is a 50-amp circuit
  • It is perfectly legal to use a 40-amp breaker with a 14-50 outlet. Under the code this is allowed because there are no 40-amp outlets. The outlet should, however, be labeled as 40-amps
Also
  • By code the breaker must be a GFCI breaker, unless you are hardwired to a Wall Connector, in which case a standard breaker is what you need.
  • And make sure the outlet it not a Leviton, you need a commercial grade outlet.
- Somehow my plug says 14-50 on it, but then it also says it's only 30A.
- I don't know if it's a GFCI breaker but he does this as a career so I'd assume he knows this. I'm not using a hardwired charger, just a UMC which is getting the job done when charging overnight.
- I'll check the brand tonight.
 
Uh. If somebody installed that plug and put the magic words, 30A, on it, then I betcha there was originally in that house a 30 A breaker on that line, wires sized for 30 A on that line, and somebody later probably swapped out a clothes drier that was rated for a 30 amp circuit (24 A max load) for another clothes drier that was designed to be hooked into a 40 amp circuit, with max 32 A load. Which promptly started making the original 30 A breaker trip at random intervals.

Of course, the right thing to have done would be to pull new wires and put in a 40 A breaker, but I’m betting our Florida Man homeowner went out, got a 60 A breaker that, of course, wouldn’t trip, and put that in. Ta-da! Saved a grand or two!

Now we got wires in the wall that are really rated for max load current of 24 A, hooked up to a 60 A breaker, and you’re running 32 A on it.

Ok. You want to risk your life, it’s up to you. You got a significant other or any children? How about their lives?

I said before: check out the wire gauge. If you don’t know how to do it, get an electrician and make sure your wiring is safe. You don’t get do-overs on this one.
I never mentioned anything about a dryer.

He came over with 25' of 6-3 wire and made an all new run for me, ended up only needing about 17' of wire when said and done. The 60amp breaker he installed is because I was under the assumption that a 14-50 adapter was 50A but somehow mine says it's only 30A. With that said, it sounds like the UMC I'm using is only capable of 30A anyways, I do recall seeing 32A on the screen during charging but I'm outta my depths here as to what that means. I just know it's been three weeks and no issues charging. I'm in WA, no FL man douchery here!

I don't know what amps 6-3 wire is rated for so I have no input on the matter.

Fire and brimstone...slow down, turbo.

I don't know the gauge, just that it's called 6-3 and the wire bundle is about as thick as my thumb. My buddy is a certified electrician and does it as his career.
 
He came over with 25' of 6-3 wire and made an all new run for me

OK, some of the pieces are staring to make sense.

If the wire is 6-3 “ROMEX” then it is rated at 55-amps, or 44-amps continuous. This is perfectly suitable for a 50-amp circuit. 14-50 outlets are designed for 50-amps circuits, but you need a 50-amp GFCI circuit breaker. The UMC requires a 40- or 50- amp circuit to deliver the maximum output of 32A to the car.

The “only capable of 30 amps” is alarming. You really should stop using it until you get this straighten out.

If this were a true 30-amp circuit the outlet would be a 14-30 outlet and would need a 30-amp GFIC breaker. You would need a 14-30 adapter and UMC power to the car would max out at 24A.
 
Screenshot_20220804-175931.png
Picture stolen from eBay but mine looks the same...says 14-50 on it then 30A below that.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Rocky_H
Agreeing with the previous posters:
  1. Ya got 50A wire. You use a 50A breaker. Ditch the 60A breaker. It's not safe, it's the wrong one, period. Get the GFCI type of 50A breaker, as previous posters have noted.
  2. Ya got 50A breaker, 50A wire.. but that nutty NEMA14-50 is labeled, "30A". This raises weird flags. It might be a real 50A NEMA14-50, but somebody's playing silly buggers with labels. Get the actual part number (may be on the front) and manufacturer and see what ya got. If it is some bizarre 30A version of a NEMA14-50 socket, throw it out and far away and put in a real NEMA14-50.
  3. If it turns out to be a real NEMA14-50, check the manufacturer and report back here. I don't use this kind of socket, but there's been multiple posts that the cheaper versions of this kind of socket don't last, especially if you're plugging in/plugging out on a regular basis. If that's the case, find out what the high-quality type is, get one, and use that.
Once all this is settled, your UMC will get you 32A, that being all it's good for. If you want more current, you can get 40A with your NEMA14-50 by using a TWC with a NEMA14-50 plug on it. Or wiring it directly to that wire. That's your call and how much money you want to spend.

Sorry about the doom and gloom.. but I was right about the 60A breaker :).
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSP and m5james
OK, That's a known oddity of the Tesla 14-50 adapter. It draws 32a, but has that 30a value written on it. Ignore that 30a printing, it will draw 32a, and needs a minimum 40a breaker, but the you can (and should) use a 50a breaker with your wiring. Finaly, code requires a GFCI breaker when installing an outlet to be used for EV charging.

Given the info you've provided, the only thing you need to do is have your friend replace that 60a breaker with a 50a GFCI breaker.
 
[QUOTE="Tronguy, post: 6936070, member: 102883]
Next: If your life wasn't complicated enough, there's this funny bugger thing about the NEMA14-50 socket and the National Electric Code. Apparently, people installing clothes driers that pulled down 40A (max) wanted to use the NEMA14-50 socket. So, somehow, it became legal to use (a) a 40A breaker, (b) 40A-rated wire, and (c) and NEMA14-50 socket, the latter of which is good for 50 A - but nothing else would be.
[/QUOTE]

#8 which is what would be required for a device drawing 32 amps (40 amp breaker) is also rated to draw 40 amps (50 amp breaker).
 
  • Like
Reactions: m5james
Get the GFCI type of 50A breaker, as previous posters have noted.
Related question, because I can see there are many smart people on this thread. Exactly why is GFCI required? I can understand why these are needed for kitchen and bathroom outlets, but why an indoor EV charger? I ask because the electrician I hired earlier this year put in a non-GFCI breaker, and I’m trying to sort out whether I need to get that fixed. And he put in a Leviton 14-50 outlet which I know I should probably upgrade. I never unplug my UMC so I’m not worried about wear and tear, but it is in the back of my mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSP
Related question, because I can see there are many smart people on this thread. Exactly why is GFCI required? I can understand why these are needed for kitchen and bathroom outlets, but why an indoor EV charger? I ask because the electrician I hired earlier this year put in a non-GFCI breaker, and I’m trying to sort out whether I need to get that fixed. And he put in a Leviton 14-50 outlet which I know I should probably upgrade. I never unplug my UMC so I’m not worried about wear and tear, but it is in the back of my mind.
My guess is that it rains or snows in some places, that rain/snow comes in on the car and gets the floor wet, and some poor barefoot schmuck might try to plug/unplug the 14-50 and come into contact with 120V which will pass through him/her into the floor. That's probably what the NEC folks are thinking, anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: m5james
Related question, because I can see there are many smart people on this thread. Exactly why is GFCI required? I can understand why these are needed for kitchen and bathroom outlets, but why an indoor EV charger? I ask because the electrician I hired earlier this year put in a non-GFCI breaker, and I’m trying to sort out whether I need to get that fixed. And he put in a Leviton 14-50 outlet which I know I should probably upgrade. I never unplug my UMC so I’m not worried about wear and tear, but it is in the back of my mind.
The requirement for GFCI protection for EV charging outlets * was added to the revised national electrical code (NEC) in 2017 and all later revisions. Not all jurisdictions have adopted the latest revision of the NEC. The added GFCI for the outlet protects the user while plugging or unplugging the power plug from the receptacle. (The EVSE already has GFCI that provides protection when plugging and unplugging the charging cable connector.) If you always turn off the power at the breaker before plugging or unplugging the power plug from the EV charging outlet (something that should only rarely be done (especially with the higher amperage 240V plugs such as the 14-50) this fully mitigates the risk of getting shocked while handling the power plug.

* For receptacles such as the 14-50 there is no available GFCI receptacle. The only option is to install a GFCI circuit breaker (costs between $100 and $150 US).
 
  • Like
  • Helpful
Reactions: GSP and m5james
The requirement for GFCI protection for EV charging outlets * was added

Pretty sure the GFCI requirements has always been there and applies to potentially wet areas (kitchen), outlets on the side of a house and the garage. I believe the “EV” notation was more of a clarification to make it clear it is still needed. Bottom line, it is required by code.

And @m5james: be sure to look at the outlet brand, if it is a Leviton, replace it!
 
Pretty sure the GFCI requirements has always been there and applies to potentially wet areas (kitchen), outlets on the side of a house and the garage. I believe the “EV” notation was more of a clarification to make it clear it is still needed. Bottom line, it is required by code.

And @m5james: be sure to look at the outlet brand, if it is a Leviton, replace it!
Location and application matters. Kitchen and bathroom receptacles must be protected by a GFCI. A 14-50 receptacle for a wall oven or range is not near water, almost never unplugged after installation. A GFCI is not required for the 14-50 in this case.

Even in 2022, a 14-50 receptacle in a garage or carport for powering an RV motor home does not require GFCI protection. Electrically motorhomes are considered distribution panels, not electrical equipment. The GFCI is incompatible with most motor homes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pepperoni
a 14-50 receptacle in a garage or carport for powering an RV motor home does not require GFCI protection. Electrically motorhomes are considered distribution panels,

Originally not true, but then the RV parks freaked! Enter the decision to call the outlet and circuit a “feeder” to a “distribution” panel, so you are 100% correct. Also I overstated the Kitchen and I agree with you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSP and jcanoe
Ya got 50A breaker, 50A wire.. but that nutty NEMA14-50 is labeled, "30A". This raises weird flags. It might be a real 50A NEMA14-50, but somebody's playing silly buggers with labels. Get the actual part number (may be on the front) and manufacturer and see what ya got. If it is some bizarre 30A version of a NEMA14-50 socket, throw it out and far away and put in a real NEMA14-50.
No, no, no--calm down. As @davewill pointed out, this was just some weird quirk that showed up and has been known about for several years. Those are Tesla's own official OEM adapter plugs, and yes, they do have that "30A" text on them, and we only have guesses why. It probably has to do with some kind of compliance testing, where it has some + or - XX% value or something like that. But yes, it really is intended to be used for the regular 32A max capacity that the mobile connector cable can do.

And just to confirm earlier points:
That's 6 gauge Romex, so is OK for a 50A rated circuit, so it can use a 50A rated breaker.
By code, the breaker is never allowed to be higher than the outlet rating. It can be lower.
Starting with the 2017 NEC version is when they required the GFCI breakers for any outlet intended to be used for EV charging.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSP and m5james