200 miles review: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4

[Fdo2]

Yes and to amplify your point if you're on the MXM4 running at 45 PSI to squeeze every last drop of range, just hope you don't have to make a panic stop. That tire is greasy to begin with and at 45 PSI maximum deceleration is very poor - whatever you saved on electrons won't cover your deductible. Obviously most Technologies are trade-offs but I believe that the PS4 all season has the best balance of virtues in the industry. It may not be an efficiency champ but it sure is good to great at almost everything else

Thank you. Recognizing my PS AS 4s are new, I had to make a hard stop yesterday, and the tires gave no ground. The stop was immediate. I was impressed.

 

[OutofThyme]

Thank you. This is very encouraging. How is your tread at 26k miles? My MXM4s lasted 25k and were 2-3/32nds.

The last I checked, they were are 4/32nds I think? (take that with a fair margin of error).

 

[Krobbler]

Snapshot from my daily commute and day 1 of going with 18x9.5 and 265 Pilot Sport AS4's. No change in driving style and cruise on the highway is always set to 80-85. Way better than I expected based off what some have reported. Super happy with this setup.

 

[insaneoctane]

Unless you want the AS4s, depending on how much you drive, my electricity is so expensive in California that my estimate shows that the OEM MXM are less total cost of ownership, even though they cost more to buy....

Math:
Cost of AS4 at Costco: $900.82 installed
Cost of MXM4 at Costco : $1,164.92 installed
Cost difference : $264.10

MXM4 efficiency (including charging losses): 0.3 kWh/mi
AS4 efficiency (including charging losses): 0.36 kWh/mi [assumes 20% worse]
Cost per KWh: $0.22 off-peak
Miles per year: 12,000 miles

MXM4
12,000 miles/year * 0.3 kWh/mi = 3,600 kWh/year
3,600 kWh/year * $0.22/ kWh = $792 year in energy

AS4
12,000 miles/year * 0.36 kWh/mi = 4,320 kWh/year
4,320 kWh/year * $0.22/ kWh = $950 year in energy

$950 - $792 = $158 savings/year
$264.10 / $158 = 1.7 years to start saving with MXM4...

No doubt, someone who drives less and has more affordable electricity might break even or even be cheaper, but not for me. For me, TCO is clearly with MXM4

 

[dfwatt]

Unless you want the AS4s, depending on how much you drive, my electricity is so expensive in California that my estimate shows that the OEM MXM are less total cost of ownership, even though they cost more to buy....

Math:
Cost of AS4 at Costco: $900.82 installed
Cost of MXM4 at Costco : $1,164.92 installed
Cost difference : $264.10

MXM4 efficiency (including charging losses): 0.3 kWh/mi
AS4 efficiency (including charging losses): 0.36 kWh/mi [assumes 20% worse]
Cost per KWh: $0.22 off-peak
Miles per year: 12,000 miles

MXM4
12,000 miles/year * 0.3 kWh/mi = 3,600 kWh/year
3,600 kWh/year * $0.22/ kWh = $792 year in energy

AS4
12,000 miles/year * 0.36 kWh/mi = 4,320 kWh/year
4,320 kWh/year * $0.22/ kWh = $950 year in energy

$950 - $792 = $158 savings/year
$264.10 / $158 = 1.7 years to start saving with MXM4...

No doubt, someone who drives less and has more affordable electricity might break even or even be cheaper, but not for me. For me, TCO is clearly with MXM4

Nice work with the math. Unfortunately the one thing you can't calculate is improved handling and braking particularly in an emergency panic stop situation where the MXM4 is pretty greasy. I'd happily take the slight range and cost penalty in exchange for those improvements but again it's all trade-offs and where one person values cost and range above all another person might not.

 

[tm1v2]

@insaneoctane You could give me the MXM4 for free and I still wouldn't use them (again). As @dfwatt said there's more to a tire than TCO.

 

[insaneoctane]

@insaneoctane You could give me the MXM4 for free and I still wouldn't use them (again). As @dfwatt said there's more to a tire than TCO.

I'm not suggesting which is the better tire, rather adding TCO to the mix. I've read several members express what @dfwatt said, that the braking performance more than offsets any price savings. While that absolutely makes sense (especially in a panic stop), everyone's got their own opinion and thresholds to consider.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm not suggesting which is the better tire, rather adding TCO to the mix. I've read several members express what @dfwatt said, that the braking performance more than offsets any price savings. While that absolutely makes sense (especially in a panic stop), everyone's got their own opinion and thresholds to consider.

Yeah- to me you can't really put any price on stopping the car 20%-30% shorter in an emergency.

 

[xxxotic]

Has anyone compared the Pilot Sport All Season to the PILOT SPORT 4S?
I will never drive in snow since Im in South Florida. However I noticed the off-seasons have a 45,000 mi warranty while the sport 4S only has a 20,000 mile warranty.
The All seasons also cost less, so I ordered them from Costco. Is grip that much better with the summer tires or is it only making a difference if you are using it for auto crossing instead of highway and street use.
I also have a Lotus Elise and that had all season tires on it which were horrible on the track, but didn't seem to make any difference on the highway so I was wondering if its the same with these tires.

 

[Fdo2]

Nice work with the math. Unfortunately the one thing you can't calculate is improved handling and braking particularly in an emergency panic stop situation where the MXM4 is pretty greasy. I'd happily take the slight range and cost penalty in exchange for those improvements but again it's all trade-offs and where one person values cost and range above all another person might not.

After more than 1,600 miles on the new PS AS4s, I’m averaging 283 kw/mi. Averaged 272 kw/mi after 25k miles on the MXM4s. That’s a 4% increase in energy consumption. Utility cost over the summer was $ 0.20 kWh. Sound inside cabin is no different. Handling, braking when needed, and road feel are significantly improved. No regrets.

 

[jackmott]

Has anyone compared the Pilot Sport All Season to the PILOT SPORT 4S?
I will never drive in snow since Im in South Florida. However I noticed the off-seasons have a 45,000 mi warranty while the sport 4S only has a 20,000 mile warranty.
The All seasons also cost less, so I ordered them from Costco. Is grip that much better with the summer tires or is it only making a difference if you are using it for auto crossing instead of highway and street use.
I also have a Lotus Elise and that had all season tires on it which were horrible on the track, but didn't seem to make any difference on the highway so I was wondering if its the same with these tires.

Yes the summer tires ARE that much grippy, but as you observe in normal driving of course this has no impact at all. It only matters if you are driving like a maniac *or* in accident avoidance. Though a summer performance tire may also be more likely to hydroplane in standing water. So a bit of a trade off.

 

[jrmt23]

After more than 1,600 miles on the new PS AS4s, I’m averaging 283 kw/mi. Averaged 272 kw/mi after 25k miles on the MXM4s. That’s a 4% increase in energy consumption. Utility cost over the summer was $ 0.20 kWh. Sound inside cabin is no different. Handling, braking when needed, and road feel are significantly improved. No regrets.

Same here. Got almost 10k on my set and my current life time average is 283 wh/mi.

 

[tm1v2]

Yes the summer tires ARE that much grippy, but as you observe in normal driving of course this has no impact at all. It only matters if you are driving like a maniac *or* in accident avoidance. Though a summer performance tire may also be more likely to hydroplane in standing water. So a bit of a trade off.

Among street tires, I think the hydroplane resistance depends more on tread design than summer vs all-season compound.

There are (or have been) summer tires with tread that's every bit as good or better at water evacuation than any all-season. And ones that aren't! The PS4S tread design does not look heavily rain-focused, but I've read very good things about its wet performance in general, that it's a big step up in the wet from past Michelin summer tires that tended to be more dry-focused I think. @xxxotic I wouldn't hesitate to use the PS4S in Florida, though yes the PSAS4 should have longer tread life in normal casual street driving.

Here's tread designs with a focus on water evacuation / hydroplane resistance. Look for V shapes like these have. Such tires are always directional of course.

 

[jackmott]

Yes, but I do feel like the performance tires always compromise water escape a little bit. But you are correct that its not horrible. Some care is maybe warranted as you get near the wear bars.

For those of us still on 235mm tires, 4000lbs of car has trouble floating anyway!

 

[dfwatt]

Has anyone compared the Pilot Sport All Season to the PILOT SPORT 4S?
I will never drive in snow since Im in South Florida. However I noticed the off-seasons have a 45,000 mi warranty while the sport 4S only has a 20,000 mile warranty.
The All seasons also cost less, so I ordered them from Costco. Is grip that much better with the summer tires or is it only making a difference if you are using it for auto crossing instead of highway and street use.
I also have a Lotus Elise and that had all season tires on it which were horrible on the track, but didn't seem to make any difference on the highway so I was wondering if its the same with these tires.

We are in Southwest Florida so we know exactly what you're talking about in terms of climate. If you're not planning on ever driving north except in the summer I would definitely recommend the Pilot Sport 4s. However the PS4 all season is truly amazing in terms of its balance of Virtues. The 4S you definitely do not want to be running not just in snow but even in really cold weather as it gets very greasy and hard as a brick below 40°, and driving it below 25° Fahrenheit is just plain dangerous and voids the warranty due to the risk of tread cracking. Obviously you don't see that in South Florida and if your driving is confined to that you'll be very happy with the 4S even though they are more expensive. Don't know about meaningful efficiency differences I suspect they're pretty similar and neither is an efficiency champ. And the All Season Pilot Sport 4 is pretty impressive in the dry - I'd say it's the best handling all season Tire anyone's ever made. We have its predecessor which we use as a backup tire for driving north but we have Pilot Sport 4S on both my car and my wife's . The predecessor tire Pilot Sport All Season 3 plus is very similar in performance and behavior to the all season 4 but perhaps not as good in the snow. If you're ever going to be Auto Crossing I would definitely get the 4s.

 

[datoda]

With 7k miles on my set of PS AS4, I found them to consume around 20% more energy than MXM4 at highway speed and about 5% - 10% more at a lower speed. I have them set at 42psi. I knew that they were less efficient before I got them, but I didn't expect them to be this inefficient. Plus, at 80mph and higher, they make this noise similar to the sound of a bouncing basketball. Yes, they have better grips, but all in all PS AS4 tires disappoint me. I wouldn't recommend them.

 

[dfwatt]

With 7k miles on my set of PS AS4, I found them to consume around 20% more energy than MXM4 at highway speed and about 5% - 10% more at a lower speed. I have them set at 42psi. I knew that they were less efficient before I got them, but I didn't expect them to be this inefficient. Plus, at 80mph and higher, they make this noise similar to the sound of a bouncing basketball. Yes, they have better grips, but all in all PS AS4 tires disappoint me. I wouldn't recommend them.

Just wait until you have to make a panic stop if you're working with the MXM4s at high pressures. You wonder if you're ever going to stop. Not everything is range and total cost of ownership.

 

[akveluru]

Wanted to chime in and say that I recently switched to PS4 AS from CrossClimate 2s. I’ve put on about 3k miles so far and overall it’s been a mixed bag.

Efficiency is about 10-15% lower that the CC2s which was a bit more of a hit than I was expecting. I was getting about 300 wh/mi on the CC2s and that has increased to about 350-380wh/mi depending on the soles that I’m cruising at.

Performance is great! These feel sporty and grip really well even with some high lateral Gs, but I’m feeling some additional body roll since I switched over to these tires. I also made some changes to suspension while I was at it, so it’s possible I still need to tune that a bit to get the right steering feel.

Noise is much improved over the CrossClimates as they have a low frequency audible growl which is eliminated by the more traditional tread pattern on the PS4s.

 

[Knightshade]

Wanted to chime in and say that I recently switched to PS4 AS from CrossClimate 2s. I’ve put on about 3k miles so far and overall it’s been a mixed bag.

Efficiency is about 10-15% lower that the CC2s which was a bit more of a hit than I was expecting. I was getting about 300 wh/mi on the CC2s and that has increased to about 350-380wh/mi depending on the soles that I’m cruising at.

This seems crazy high to me?

I've also got a 2018 LR AWD (with boost) and am running the PS4 AS, and getting like 280-285 wh/mi average.... was ~265 average on the OEM MXM4s on stock 18s without the aero covers on.

My driving is typically like 80-90% highway at speeds in the 70-80 mph range, then local roads in the 35-55 range for the rest.

 

[Krobbler]

I am running 18x9.5 wheels with 265/40 PS AS4's and my average efficiency over the past 10k miles has been 262wh/mi. I am 80+% highway and always have cruise set to 80 to 85. I'm confused how it's possible people running 235's are seeing that much worse efficiency compared to what I am getting.