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2012 Model S launch vs. upcoming US elections

Discussion in 'Model S' started by VolkerP, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    Tesla's gonna take a lot of heat launching Model S so close to U.S. presidential elections. Even if nothing goes wrong, the cars work OK, customers are happy, no re-calls -- the GOP will open fire, that's for sure.
    Might I suggest that EU deliveries are brought forward :biggrin: (running & ducking)
     
  2. MarkR

    MarkR Member

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    I'm not sure who I trust less, you or the Republicans. Seems like you've got a sneaky strategy to get your car first! The GOP should LOVE Tesla - American start-up, American technology, American innovation, selling a great product to the world, etc.
    Actually when I visited TMC for the October event, I was impressed with the number of German staff and the amount of German technology at the plant. Thanks Volker!
     
  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I think the fire will be drawn to the energy loans Tesla got.
     
  4. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Which, in the case of a successful S launch, can be claimed to be working.
     
  5. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    Yes, in a fair and rational world. In this one however, it will likely be spun to be paying for toys for the rich, or the DoE having a 1 in X success rate etc.
     
  6. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Eh, a "Democrat" argument....?
     
  7. drees

    drees Active Member

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    You forgot to mention that they will spin the DOE loan as a $500M gift to Tesla that never has to be repaid, each S is sold at a loss on the taxpayer dime, etc, etc, etc.

    That's how backwards the GOP has become. :) To be fair - I wouldn't mind seeing the tax credit diminish in value with the sales price of the vehicle to eliminate this argument. After all, how many of you spending $90k+ on a Model S would be priced out if it didn't qualify for the tax credit?
     
  8. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    I would. Or, more accurately, it'd be beyond the cost/benefit ratio I'm willing to accept.
     
  9. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I would happily give up the tax credit in return for stopping the gasoline subsidies.
     
  10. MarkR

    MarkR Member

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    If Tesla's launch will play a part of the 2012 presidential election, an argument can be made either way (and probably will). Kinda interesting that Tesla owners and rez holders are affluent enough to be Republicans, but green enough to be Democrats. Personally, I can't decide what I am, so I'm an Independent.

    If I had to bet, GOP is more apt to focus on the challenges of Fisker and the failure at Solyndra, rather than the (highly) probable success at Tesla.

    Wouldn't it be an awesome statement about American innovation to see the President driving a Model S (whichever guy wins)?
     
  11. MarkR

    MarkR Member

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    The answer - Almost none.
     
  12. Dan5

    Dan5 Member

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    To be fair, I would give up my tax credit too if my tax dollars did not have to go for oil subsidies.
    There was something on the show "Young Turks" which show and they said 122 Billion of subsidies and breaks to oil companies in the US over 10 years- that's enough to give tax breaks to 16 million EVs (or about 1/10-1/20 the US car fleet)- and in theory, gas prices for the other gassers should drop 10% so the rest of the tax payers should save that amount of money over 1 year too.

    Without the tax breaks and subsidies gas prices would be 20-25% higher, which would make EVs WITHOUT the tax breaks more economicaly
     
  13. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I think more than that - but I think the entire bill for the Iraq war should be paid for with gas taxes.
     
  14. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    I'd disagree. A lot of potential Model S buyers (not necessarily active on this forum) including myself are going to be very, very price-sensitive; most of us are seeking to buy a car that's twice - or more - as costly as any car that we've ever bought. The federal tax credit is a tremendous help!

    The 40kWh pack is what it is (not too much over a Leaf's range, no supercharging, etc.) and may not be attractive enough to a lot of cost-conscious buyers who might settle for a Leaf, Focus Electric or Volt instead. That leaves the costlier tiers which are made that much more affordable (relatively speaking) with the aid of the tax credit.

    Every new radical shift from the status quo needs some sort of nudge from the Govt. (the only entity that can afford to do so without necessarily worrying about the bottomline) and it's up to the politicians to defend it.
     
  15. Trnsl8r

    Trnsl8r Blue 85kwh since 12/8/12

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    To be fair, the question was posed "how many of you spending $90k+ on a Model S would be priced out", meaning the ones splurging away on the 85-model... I can see how the spending an extra 30-40k over the base would be an indicator that $7500 would not make or break the purchase. If you're struggling to get the 40 or even 60, then yes the tax credit will matter.

    Personally I'm in the grey-zone. I'm going for the 85 or bust, but the tax credit will still definitely be a factor.
     
  16. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

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    Almost every credible economist refutes this. Republican, Democrat, or Independent. Gas prices are determined by a world-wide market and the subsidies have little effect on the price at the pump.
     
  17. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    If the tax credit were non-existent I would not be priced out. However, I would have to either get the 40kWh pack or cut out several options (air suspension, paint, pano roof). I've owned about 9 cars, all used. The cost of my Model S will be equal to the total cost of all the vehicles I've owned (less maintenance :rolleyes:).
     
  18. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Yes, despite the US heading for an oil-surplus in terms of domestic production vs imports (see the recent excellent TIME magazine article - for subscribers only), at the pump, we are at the mercy of global markets which are currently being swayed by increasing consumption in China and India.
     
  19. drees

    drees Active Member

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    Exactly - $7,500 on a $57k car is substantial. On a $97k car? Not quite as much. The question is - how much more would those customers be willing to pay?

    I think a lot of people are - I do think that the tax credit will get more people into a higher capacity car than it otherwise might. Those that might only get the 40 kWh car without the tax credit will be able to get the 60 kWh car for only $2,500 more. Same for the 60 / 85 kWh cars.

    But beyond that - you're paying to be first in line (Signature) or for more performance.

    I personally don't think that phasing the credit out as prices goes up is all that good of an idea - what I'd like to see is the tax credit turned into a rebate - so there's no issues w/people having to pay the entire amount up front and either tweak their withholdings or wait for tax-day to get the money back - plus it ensures that people with less than $7,500 of tax liability can get the full credit without leasing - and perhaps reduce the credit for cars over $50k on a sliding scale where a $100k car rebate is cut in half.

    IMO people who can afford it should make every effort to invest the tax credit money into renewable energy - enough to offset consumption of their driving. $7,500 is enough to buy at least 1 kW of grid-tied solar (more if you buy a bigger system) which will generate around 1,200 kWh depending on where you live before rebates/credits. Assume your after rebate price is $3/watt which means that $10k can buy a 3 kW system. That will be enough PV to offset over 10,000 miles of driving a year.
     
  20. Trnsl8r

    Trnsl8r Blue 85kwh since 12/8/12

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    Amen to that brother...
     

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