2012 Model S P85 Battery Replacement Receipt - sharing is caring

[Jason Bloomberg]

A quick Google suggests somewhere in the $200-300 range.

You're missing the point. When you say "the repair exceeds the value of the car", you are being inaccurate. It was the upgrade which was discretionary, not necessity that cost $22k for a trade in value with a damaged battery vehicle where an offer from Tesla was given at $17k.

There was the option of us just not doing any hard acceleration at < 50% SOC. Cost? No dollars, but missing out on fun other than above 50% SOC.

Alternatively, I could have driven the car to Gruber Motors and had them do their lock out of bad cells for about $5k. Who knows what they would charge to replace bad cells? Certainly less than what we paid. We also could have had a remanufactured 85kWh battery with the same characteristics as our original with a 1 year warranty, installed for about $16k. Any of these options would restore the vehicle "market value" (if we wanted to sell it) to ~$30k (it is a Signature Red P85 with carbon fiber trim and every option other than rear facing jump seats, offered at the time).

Instead, we chose to UPGRADE for $22k and get:
Much faster charging, longer range, more sustained acceleration (power), and a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty covering parts and labor. The new battery with warranty raises the market value beyond what it was with the original battery under ideal conditions. I'm not going to put an amount to it because upgrading a car, like upgrading a house, should be done primarily for one's own enjoyment rather than fantasies about market values. There are better ways to invest money (which we have done).

Be as churlish as you desire, but don't conflate your curmudgeonly condescension for anything objective. Like most things pertaining to expensive cars, value is largely subjective, in keeping, selling, or buying such vehicles.

 

[DJVoorhees]

All that is well and good, but bottom line is they need to get these replacement costs down, and fast.

At $22k it's sort of in "shakedown" territory, because you really don't have any option at that point-- a car with a nonfunctional battery has no resale and putting the money in (and gaining warranty) makes it foolish to sell after the replacement. So you don't REALLY have a choice... And the price is high enough that most people are going to resent having been put in that no-win scenario.

Tesla as a company, as immature as it is as well as batteries being pretty immature as well is a problem.

IMO, It's a gamble owning a Tesla after the battery warranty expires especially with their spotty service.

 

[TwistedGray]

You're missing the point. When you say "the repair exceeds the value of the car", you are being inaccurate. It was the upgrade which was discretionary, not necessity that cost $22k for a trade in value with a damaged battery vehicle where an offer from Tesla was given at $17k.

There was the option of us just not doing any hard acceleration at < 50% SOC. Cost? No dollars, but missing out on fun other than above 50% SOC.

Alternatively, I could have driven the car to Gruber Motors and had them do their lock out of bad cells for about $5k. Who knows what they would charge to replace bad cells? Certainly less than what we paid. We also could have had a remanufactured 85kWh battery with the same characteristics as our original with a 1 year warranty, installed for about $16k. Any of these options would restore the vehicle "market value" (if we wanted to sell it) to ~$30k (it is a Signature Red P85 with carbon fiber trim and every option other than rear facing jump seats, offered at the time).

Instead, we chose to UPGRADE for $22k and get:
Much faster charging, longer range, more sustained acceleration (power), and a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty covering parts and labor. The new battery with warranty raises the market value beyond what it was with the original battery under ideal conditions. I'm not going to put an amount to it because upgrading a car, like upgrading a house, should be done primarily for one's own enjoyment rather than fantasies about market values. There are better ways to invest money (which we have done).

Be as churlish as you desire, but don't conflate your curmudgeonly condescension for anything objective. Like most things pertaining to expensive cars, value is largely subjective, in keeping, selling, or buying such vehicles.

We're talking in circles.

I have the exact same car (just earlier build, #70) as you do. It is a Signature Red P85 with carbon fiber trim and every option other than rear facing jump seats, offered at the time <--borrowed your language. Mine has closer to $30,000+ in what you would call Tesla "upgrades" over the years.


Not sure if we're playing "some me yours, I'll show you mine" game, or if this is a measurement contest? ...but I'll play

 

[Jason Bloomberg]

We're talking in circles.

I have the exact same car (just earlier build, #70) as you do. It is a Signature Red P85 with carbon fiber trim and every option other than rear facing jump seats, offered at the time <--borrowed your language. Mine has closer to $30,000+ in what you would call Tesla "upgrades" over the years.


Not sure if we're playing "some me yours, I'll show you mine" game, or if this is a measurement contest? ...but I'll play
View attachment 659738
View attachment 659737

Gorgeous car. It looks like someone changed the nose cone to the Production version. Here's some pictures of ours which looks different.

 

[TwistedGray]

Gorgeous car. It looks like someone changed the nose cone to the Production version. Here's some pictures of ours which looks different.

If you look hard enough you'll also find the MobilEye sensors and the equipment for the integrated Passport radar/laser detector : )

 

[Jason Bloomberg]

If you look hard enough you'll also find the MobilEye sensors and the equipment for the integrated Passport radar/laser detector : )

Have you added AP1 to it?

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Well said. I wonder how this story isn't published in clean technica or electrek or someother websites which cover ev updates...

Those sites are pro Tesla. They are all TSLA stock holder and don't want to hurt their net worth.

 

[TwistedGray]

Have you added AP1 to it?

No. I don't believe we can...can we?

 

[gaswalla]

yes.. you can add AP1. evfixme does it in SoCal. Probably others too

 

[ReddyLeaf]

It comes with age, experiencen and the "school of hard knocks". The general public is simultaneously excited and skeptical about EVs making the secondary market highly volatile. The Nissan LEAF is an example of this, as will be the BOLT.

Buying any car outside of warranty carries risks. We had Subarus, a highly rated brand for longevity and reliability, yet my 1987 and 1989 RX would cost $2,000 - $3,000 per year each in maintenance and repairs. I also have a 2008 Prius we converted to a Plug-in hybrid with an all electric range of 56 miles. It is getting its second replacement battery charger. I bought it for about $11,000 in 2013 and have put almost $30,000 in modifications into it. When I can test a Cybertruck, I'll probably replace the Prius and donate it to the Historic Electric Vehicle Foundation Museum in Kingman, where our proud EVs already have been donated. Having been driving electric since 2007 we have a different perspective than the average consumer.

Jason Bloomberg's 1993 Eagle Summit Wagon

The EVs now being produced will be obsolete in the eyes many by the time they are out of warranty, largely because improvements are occurring much faster than in the legacy I.C.E. machines. There are now three EV manufacturers claiming they will be selling $25k EVs within the next 5 years. That too will impact the secondary markets.

I've made much more on Tesla stock than I ever could by selling our Tesla as a used car. We're "going long" on both. It will be interesting to see how long our 2012 Signature Edition P85 Model S actually lasts.

Jason, thanks for EVerything you’re doing. I really wanted that sig, but eventually decided on the 2015S70D, which as you said above is about when Tesla really starting cranking out cars, dropping used prices. At that time, with the $7500 tax credit and WA incentives, I paid just about the same as for a used vehicle. I read about all the early issues (drivetrain, leaky sunroof, excessive tire wear, etc.) and decided to get dual wheel drive, hardtop, and the 70KWh battery with unlimited mileage warranty. Best car at the time (especially since the early 90s batteries degraded more quickly, but now these cars are so far behind the 2020s. One redeeming quality is free SC, albeit slow.

To stay slightly on topic, my 2011 Leaf is still going great as my in-town car, down to 35-50 mi range, but zero maintenance in 10 years except tires, wiper blades, and wiper fluid. Still on the original PbA and LION batteries. Replacement battery cost is ~$7000, while the car’s total street value is $3000. Yah, not gonna do that, just keep it as the grocery getter. I hope to be able to sell (give) it to one of the neighbor kids and upgrade to a 2023 Model Y, trading in the MS at the same time. Definitely hoping to have this paid for by TSLA.

Tesla knew (knows) just how to push people over the buying edge.

 

[j0esilly]

TwistedGray, was the replacement required due to an accident or failed cells? 162k isn't a whole lot of miles.

j0esilly, how about yours, and how many miles do you have on it?

Failed cells for me, my car only has 68k miles on it

 

[Jason Bloomberg]

Jason, thanks for EVerything you’re doing. I really wanted that sig, but eventually decided on the 2015S70D, which as you said above is about when Tesla really starting cranking out cars, dropping used prices. At that time, with the $7500 tax credit and WA incentives, I paid just about the same as for a used vehicle. I read about all the early issues (drivetrain, leaky sunroof, excessive tire wear, etc.) and decided to get dual wheel drive, hardtop, and the 70KWh battery with unlimited mileage warranty. Best car at the time (especially since the early 90s batteries degraded more quickly, but now these cars are so far behind the 2020s. One redeeming quality is free SC, albeit slow.

To stay slightly on topic, my 2011 Leaf is still going great as my in-town car, down to 35-50 mi range, but zero maintenance in 10 years except tires, wiper blades, and wiper fluid. Still on the original PbA and LION batteries. Replacement battery cost is ~$7000, while the car’s total street value is $3000. Yah, not gonna do that, just keep it as the grocery getter. I hope to be able to sell (give) it to one of the neighbor kids and upgrade to a 2023 Model Y, trading in the MS at the same time. Definitely hoping to have this paid for by TSLA.

Tesla knew (knows) just how to push people over the buying edge.

We also have a 2014 LEAF SL. It is the only car we ever bought new. At over 73,000 miles it has all battery bars and has cost, not including tires, about $1,200 in maintenance and repairs. It replaced my wife's Gen 1 Prius. We bought it in July "at the end of the production year" so between $8000 in manufacturer and dealer discounts, 72 months 0% financing, and a $7,500 tax credit, it was for us, too good an offer to pass up. It is her daily driver, purchased for commuting, but with the CHAdeMO port actually became our regional vehicle between Cheyenne, WY and Denver, CO as there are CHAdeMO chargers between. We used it for that until we got our Tesla CPO in January 2016. It's rear shocks, 12V battery, have been replaced, and the telemetry head upgraded to 3G so we can continue to use CARWINGS, without which she could not remote control preheat the cabin in winter. These account for most of the costs. As for it's value, it's paid for, so by not buying another car we are making money by not spending it on a new car when it doesn't need replacing. It looks like it will last beyond when she retires. It has thus far been reliable transportation which gets fully charge at home from our renewable energy systems. When asked if she wants to trade it off for anything else, the answer is a "FIRM NO". It's a car she is comfortable with driving. That's what is really important for us. If she want's to go beyond it's range, she takes our Model S.

 

[Exelion]

I think the issue here is that people are arguing on two very different levels.

On one hand, shouldn’t have to justify spending the amount of money on a really nice car, one that Tesla doesn’t make the color of anymore, with features that Tesla no longer puts in their cars nowadays. Can’t put a price on enjoyment, and if you ever look at all the cars that rise in value, you’ll notice that most all are in a few categories: sports cars, luxury cars, and rugged SUV’s. All three are categories the owners love to drive. And likewise, other people, with money, see those cars the same way, and thats why their values are so high. So don’t justify having to pay any amount of money, because-again, its a really, really beautiful car, and I hope it continues to offer more years of enjoyment.

On the other side of the coin, the people who view it all according to dollars and sense also make a good point. They see this car as just another daily driven consumable and should take into account all the depreciation factors, cost of ownership, replacement parts costs, so they *get* the most dollar out of everything they own, and something that costs *that* much should really be given a lot more thought to the nickels and dimes of life. Camry’s, Accords, iPhones, Teslas, all items you buy as low as possible, calculate the use out of it, and if the repair cost is just a little too high, sell it and get a new one. They will see $20,000 battery as a huge waste of money. Financially, they are correct.

Personally, I wish I had a car I liked so much that I would happily spend a lot on it to keep it running. Those who have such cars are among a lucky few.

 

[TwistedGray]

I think the issue here is that people are arguing on two very different levels.

On one hand, shouldn’t have to justify spending the amount of money on a really nice car, one that Tesla doesn’t make the color of anymore, with features that Tesla no longer puts in their cars nowadays. Can’t put a price on enjoyment, and if you ever look at all the cars that rise in value, you’ll notice that most all are in a few categories: sports cars, luxury cars, and rugged SUV’s. All three are categories the owners love to drive. And likewise, other people, with money, see those cars the same way, and thats why their values are so high. So don’t justify having to pay any amount of money, because-again, its a really, really beautiful car, and I hope it continues to offer more years of enjoyment.

On the other side of the coin, the people who view it all according to dollars and sense also make a good point. They see this car as just another daily driven consumable and should take into account all the depreciation factors, cost of ownership, replacement parts costs, so they *get* the most dollar out of everything they own, and something that costs *that* much should really be given a lot more thought to the nickels and dimes of life. Camry’s, Accords, iPhones, Teslas, all items you buy as low as possible, calculate the use out of it, and if the repair cost is just a little too high, sell it and get a new one. They will see $20,000 battery as a huge waste of money. Financially, they are correct.

Personally, I wish I had a car I liked so much that I would happily spend a lot on it to keep it running. Those who have such cars are among a lucky few.

Very well said!!

To your last comment, yes! I couldn't agree more. I have my dream car, but it doesn't exist, and it will cost a lot of money to modify to make it a reality (a one-off).

There are compromises though, and I will be shopping for those soon enough.

 

[huntjo]

I have about 60k miles on my 2012 Sig red 85kwh (#708) that I have now passed the 8yr extended service agreement as well. Last week I got a fault alert for the 12 v battery so I scheduled a service appointment. Two days ago it now is reducing max power and all regenerative braking. The service center in Superior contacted me and now tells me that the HV battery is bad and that it’s 15k, customer pay since warranty expired. I agree with the above poster in that I feel over a barrel. I was not ready to sell my car for scrap but am very nauseated by this sudden cost that seems to have conveniently fallen immediately (ok 5 months) after the warranty expired. What option do I have?

 

[Jason Bloomberg]

I have about 60k miles on my 2012 Sig red 85kwh (#708) that I have now passed the 8yr extended service agreement as well. Last week I got a fault alert for the 12 v battery so I scheduled a service appointment. Two days ago it now is reducing max power and all regenerative braking. The service center in Superior contacted me and now tells me that the HV battery is bad and that it’s 15k, customer pay since warranty expired. I agree with the above poster in that I feel over a barrel. I was not ready to sell my car for scrap but am very nauseated by this sudden cost that seems to have conveniently fallen immediately (ok 5 months) after the warranty expired. What option do I have?

We opted to spend $22K to get a new 90kWh battery with 4 year / 50k miles warranty. It Supercharges at upto 120 kW and now has 270 mile range. Tesla offered us $17k trade in value (with a bad High Voltage battery) if we wanted to buy a newer Tesla. We are happy with our choice. It might be worthwhile for you to contact Gruber Motors and find out what they can do with your battery. Our Signature Edition P85 had 122,000 miles on it when our battery failed. Our drive unit was repla6under warranty at 47,000 miles. Your with only 60,000 miles on it may be worth more as a trade in. It also might be worth it to keep it running. Much depends on your own preferences and resources.

Model S - Main Battery Pack Repair | Gruber Motors

Tesla Roadster PEM Upgrade

grubermotors.com

 

[huntjo]

I hate how they want me to sign the estimate when they’ve only remotely diagnosed it. I just don’t understand how a battery that was fine and charging to 250 miles suddenly has to be completely replaced. I’m just a knuckle dragging surgeon so I don’t know if they’ll be able to explain it in a way that is satisfying since I don’t claim to be an expert on battery engineering or even ICE vehicles, but I feel like I need to take it down to the service appointment and have them at least put their hands on it and make sure that the thing has to be completely trashed and a different battery put in. Hope they will look at it without me signing the exorbitant estimate

 

[huntjo]

We opted to spend $22K to get a new 90kWh battery with 4 year / 50k miles warranty. It Supercharges at upto 120 kW and now has 270 mile range. Tesla offered us $17k trade in value (with a bad High Voltage battery) if we wanted to buy a newer Tesla. We are happy with our choice. It might be worthwhile for you to contact Gruber Motors and find out what they can do with your battery. Our Signature Edition P85 had 122,000 miles on it when our battery failed. Our drive unit was repla6under warranty at 47,000 miles. Your with only 60,000 miles on it may be worth more as a trade in. It also might be worth it to keep it running. Much depends on your own preferences and resources.

Model S - Main Battery Pack Repair | Gruber Motors

Tesla Roadster PEM Upgrade

grubermotors.com

120 kw charging is slightly enticing but. It $7k extra enticing. 270 is what my 85kwh said new, and it settled somewhere around 255 recently (haven’t charged to 100% in a while tho, so not sure if it’s down to 250 or so)

 

[TwistedGray]

I have about 60k miles on my 2012 Sig red 85kwh (#708) that I have now passed the 8yr extended service agreement as well. Last week I got a fault alert for the 12 v battery so I scheduled a service appointment. Two days ago it now is reducing max power and all regenerative braking. The service center in Superior contacted me and now tells me that the HV battery is bad and that it’s 15k, customer pay since warranty expired. I agree with the above poster in that I feel over a barrel. I was not ready to sell my car for scrap but am very nauseated by this sudden cost that seems to have conveniently fallen immediately (ok 5 months) after the warranty expired. What option do I have?

They may not have said this or you may not have heard it, but it's important to know:

1. That $15,000 is for a remanufactured battery meaning that the bad cells were replaced with good cells, and there was some QA/QC done to ensure functionally. You'll get a one-year warranty (from my understanding). It's not worth it! In for a penny, in for a pound...

2. If you are going to replace the battery, get a new one. As noted, you'll get a 4yr/50k mile warranty, a 90kWh battery, fast charging, and great range!

3. Have Gruber or some other company isolate the bad cell, and you're good to go. Understand that more cells could (will) eventually go bad. I believe the cost is somewhere around $5,000 plus transportation to get it there, of course. There is speculation that Tesla would not accept the battery as core when you inevitably have to replace it so buyer beware.

 

[TwistedGray]

I hate how they want me to sign the estimate when they’ve only remotely diagnosed it. I just don’t understand how a battery that was fine and charging to 250 miles suddenly has to be completely replaced. I’m just a knuckle dragging surgeon so I don’t know if they’ll be able to explain it in a way that is satisfying since I don’t claim to be an expert on battery engineering or even ICE vehicles, but I feel like I need to take it down to the service appointment and have them at least put their hands on it and make sure that the thing has to be completely trashed and a different battery put in. Hope they will look at it without me signing the exorbitant estimate

The entire battery is not trashed, and Tesla doesn't fix things for the consumer. So your only option through Tesla is to replace the entire battery.

Once they have taken your battery, they replace the bad cells and put it into a warranty car, if the battery fails during warranty (or sell it to someone out of warranty for ... $15,000).

It's pretty shitty practice, but it's their business.