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2012 Model S P85 Battery Replacement Receipt - sharing is caring

krishna3812

Member
Jan 7, 2021
33
14
Newyork
I have about 60k miles on my 2012 Sig red 85kwh (#708) that I have now passed the 8yr extended service agreement as well. Last week I got a fault alert for the 12 v battery so I scheduled a service appointment. Two days ago it now is reducing max power and all regenerative braking. The service center in Superior contacted me and now tells me that the HV battery is bad and that it’s 15k, customer pay since warranty expired. I agree with the above poster in that I feel over a barrel. I was not ready to sell my car for scrap but am very nauseated by this sudden cost that seems to have conveniently fallen immediately (ok 5 months) after the warranty expired. What option do I have?
Did you try to get trade in estimate?
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,394
738
San Diego, California
Did you try to get trade in estimate?
Trade in the car? Or the battery? The car they said tesla was offering $17K. Not sure about the battery, but I suspect it will be around $17K changeout cost with core turned in. It is sounding like more and more people are going to hit those warranty time limit and be on the hook for the battery pack replacement cost. Let's see what the response is when more people get sick and tired of tesla and someone unbiased actually running a news article about this growing problem.
 

FLRifleman

Member
Apr 2, 2021
18
4
Florida
The entire battery is not trashed, and Tesla doesn't fix things for the consumer. So your only option through Tesla is to replace the entire battery.

Once they have taken your battery, they replace the bad cells and put it into a warranty car, if the battery fails during warranty (or sell it to someone out of warranty for ... $15,000).

It's pretty shitty practice, but it's their business.

Does Tesla have any plans to have their local service centers perform module replacements instead of the whole battery? I remember this as being one of the original selling points. With the multiple modules, they can be replaced as needed at much lower cost.

We're seeing similar failures with 9-10 year old Volts with low mileage. It seems to indicate that a "time" factor may be having a larger impact with the battery chemistry verses cycles.
 

TwistedGray

Ludicrous > Ludacris
Mar 12, 2021
275
245
Monterey Bay, CA
Does Tesla have any plans to have their local service centers perform module replacements instead of the whole battery? I remember this as being one of the original selling points. With the multiple modules, they can be replaced as needed at much lower cost.

We're seeing similar failures with 9-10 year old Volts with low mileage. It seems to indicate that a "time" factor may be having a larger impact with the battery chemistry verses cycles.

It's much easier to just swap the hv battery and move on then to start a diagnostic service for the owners. Until there are a handful of companies offering comparable cars with a comparable charging network, Tesla can continue to do whatever the eff they want.
 

huntjo

Member
Aug 3, 2012
549
2
Fort Collins, Colorado
So I doubted their diagnosis done remotely because the screen in the car says the 12 v battery is in need of replacement and doesn’t say anything about the high voltage battery directly. However it does say max power reduced and regenerative braking disabled which I guess in hindsight are high voltage battery things. I kept my service appointment today without signing the estimate agreement for $15k for a new battery because I was sure there would be some other answer. They were kind enough to explain to me how apparently a fault in the contactors of the HV battery can lead to a chain of other alerts- in this case the 12 v thing was first to ding.
so as the above posters have detailed very well, my option is to accept an expensive refurbished battery with 85 kWh or buy an upgrade to 90 kWh for a few thousand more, or trade in and get a new car that is non-signature red, non-white leather seats, non- extra leather dashboard and surfaces. It’s not that I’ve been babying the car and waxing it every weekend anymore- it’s a daily driver. I’m just disappointed that I thought I was getting in on the ground floor with this early production car that I could keep for bragging rights for decades. Of course I salivated over every upgrade to the battery packs, dual motors, heated steering wheel, new front fascia, etc and was tempted to upgrade for years, but I was happy with my car and didn’t want a new one.
But now faced with the financials of a major cash outlay to make an 8 1/2 yr old car function, it makes it less sentimental. Also I’ve been a huge brand cheerleader here in the region and told everyone how great the company was, because previously it was nearly zero maintenance and all my little problems that did come up were easily fixed. Now I don’t know if I could honestly recommend it to someone if they expect the car to be usable beyond a short warranty.
I thought there was some amendment to our original warranty that said the battery was guaranteed for life except for normal degradation, but I can’t find that written anywhere. Maybe it was a tweet which may not hold any legal ground
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,797
35,184
Oregon
They were kind enough to explain to me how apparently a fault in the contactors of the HV battery can lead to a chain of other alerts-

If it is really just the contactors, that is something that they should be able to fix for less than $2k. The contactors and fuse are about the only things inside the HV battery pack that the service centers will fix. (Or at least they have in the past.)

I thought there was some amendment to our original warranty that said the battery was guaranteed for life except for normal degradation, but I can’t find that written anywhere. Maybe it was a tweet which may not hold any legal ground
I don't think that was ever said. What was said it that it had a 8-year/unlimited mileage warranty.
 

TwistedGray

Ludicrous > Ludacris
Mar 12, 2021
275
245
Monterey Bay, CA
Now I don’t know if I could honestly recommend it to someone if they expect the car to be usable beyond a short warranty.
I thought there was some amendment to our original warranty that said the battery was guaranteed for life except for normal degradation, but I can’t find that written anywhere. Maybe it was a tweet which may not hold any legal ground

It's worth about $10k as it sits, $35k with new battery. If that helps...
 
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huntjo

Member
Aug 3, 2012
549
2
Fort Collins, Colorado
I appreciate all the helpful comments and insights. I’ll keep y’all posted on what we decide. Kind of sad that I used to spend so much time on these forums from 2010-2015 or so, excited for each new teased release and each new theory about the next big features to come, only to come back to the forums to seek solace and advice for the decline of my prize. Thanks for continuing to be such a supportive and well informed online community!
 

chad5k1

Member
May 18, 2021
5
1
UK
I appreciate all the helpful comments and insights. I’ll keep y’all posted on what we decide. Kind of sad that I used to spend so much time on these forums from 2010-2015 or so, excited for each new teased release and each new theory about the next big features to come, only to come back to the forums to seek solace and advice for the decline of my prize. Thanks for continuing to be such a supportive and well informed online community!
I'm new here, but I read your posts with interest and I wish you the best of luck with your decision
 
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TwistedGray

Ludicrous > Ludacris
Mar 12, 2021
275
245
Monterey Bay, CA
using the Tesla site and my VIN it looks like the trade in is $20k. I wonder if they know it needs the new battery or if that is actually not even factoring that in

The reality is is that they can (will) swap it out with a reman battery, so for them it's whatever...take the $20k, buy a used Model 3, and sell it, recoup the majority of your expense (minus taxes and nonsense that you'll have to pay post trade in). Alternatively, spend $20k on a new battery, get $5k use out of it, and sell it for $35k : ) ...options...
 

techlogik

Member
Mar 22, 2021
212
117
Tampa
so basically a Tesla is like a house with a shingle roof which need replacing 2x as often, more than a new roof, and loses value instead of gain?!?!
 
Dec 27, 2015
129
473
Cheyenne, WY
using the Tesla site and my VIN it looks like the trade in is $20k. I wonder if they know it needs the new battery or if that is actually not even factoring that in
If you got a trade in estimate from Tesla, that is including the battery in its condition at the time the estimate is given. They have access to that information. We got a offer of $17k for ours with 122,000 miles and the defective not yet replaced.

I'm a Family Medicine physician in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Our Signature Red P85 was paid off and we enjoy driving it. For us, the $22K to have the latest 90kWh replacement battery, with 120kW Supercharging, a 270 mike range (up from 220-230), and a 4 year/50,000 miles warranty seemed reasonable and frankly affordable to us.

For context, my wife's 2014 Nissan LEAF would cost $9,500 to replace its 24kwh battery with a 30kWh battery.

You will find all sorts of opinions pushing you one way or another. Some seem to be wanting others to follow their lead so they can feel validated with their own decision.

Ultimately, this is a personal decision. You can't change the reality of you have an Signature Edition Model S with a defective battery outside of warranty. Of the options which exist (as opposed to options which don't) which would give you the most happiness?

Is it worth the time, effort, and costs to ship the car to Gruber Motors to see if they can more or less resurrect your battery?

Do you want to keep the car for as long as possible?

Do you want to be done with it, "take a loss" (by whatever way you want to calculate that)?

What is it worth to you to have a new, upgraded battery, with longer range, faster charging, and a substantial warranty in the Signature Edition you presently own?

You don't need to post answers to any of these questions. They are just what we asked ourselves regarding our own Signature Edition P85. I offer them only to help you find your own answers for yourself.

One of the other things we considered was what we could afford based on our personal finances. It was within our easy financial reach. That is not be true for everyone.

As a surgeon, you make much more difficult decisions on a frequent basis. Trust yourself. You are NOT a "knuckle dragger". You're an intelligent colleague who hopefully will make a decision he will be happy with.
 

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No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,394
738
San Diego, California
If you got a trade in estimate from Tesla, that is including the battery in its condition at the time the estimate is given. They have access to that information. We got a offer of $17k for ours with 122,000 miles and the defective not yet replaced.

I'm a Family Medicine physician in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Our Signature Red P85 was paid off and we enjoy driving it. For us, the $22K to have the latest 90kWh replacement battery, with 120kW Supercharging, a 270 mike range (up from 220-230), and a 4 year/50,000 miles warranty seemed reasonable and frankly affordable to us.

For context, my wife's 2014 Nissan LEAF would cost $9,500 to replace its 24kwh battery with a 30kWh battery.

You will find all sorts of opinions pushing you one way or another. Some seem to be wanting others to follow their lead so they can feel validated with their own decision.

Ultimately, this is a personal decision. You can't change the reality of you have an Signature Edition Model S with a defective battery outside of warranty. Of the options which exist (as opposed to options which don't) which would give you the most happiness?

Is it worth the time, effort, and costs to ship the car to Gruber Motors to see if they can more or less resurrect your battery?

Do you want to keep the car for as long as possible?

Do you want to be done with it, "take a loss" (by whatever way you want to calculate that)?

What is it worth to you to have a new, upgraded battery, with longer range, faster charging, and a substantial warranty in the Signature Edition you presently own?

You don't need to post answers to any of these questions. They are just what we asked ourselves regarding our own Signature Edition P85. I offer them only to help you find your own answers for yourself.

One of the other things we considered was what we could afford based on our personal finances. It was within our easy financial reach. That is not be true for everyone.

As a surgeon, you make much more difficult decisions on a frequent basis. Trust yourself. You are NOT a "knuckle dragger". You're an intelligent colleague who hopefully will make a decision he will be happy with.
Like you said it would be a personal choice, but for me, I would've easily trade up to an id4. In CA, the new id4 1st edition, assuming you preordered, cost $38K Out the door after all the tax credits and rebates. Less if you live in other section of CA with additional rebates. Sure it's not a model S, but it is actually a nice upgrade to your 2012 model S for sure. It has autopilot 1. It is quieter than the early model S, and it's an SUV vs Sedan with probably similar highway range compared to the first model S. Yes your ranges says 270 miles vs the 250 miles of the id4, but Tesla's range estimates are optimistic and I wouldn't be surprised if both cars have similar highway range. So yes you would have to pay $16K more if you wanted the id4. But if you can sell your model S, with the broken battery, for $17K or more, then you would be better off. But somehow I doubt any dealer/buyer will offer anything decent for a non-functioning model S trade in. : )
 
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Dec 27, 2015
129
473
Cheyenne, WY
Like you said it would be a personal choice, but for me, I would've easily trade up to an id4. In CA, the new id4 1st edition, assuming you preordered, cost $38K Out the door after all the tax credits and rebates. Less if you live in other section of CA with additional rebates. Sure it's not a model S, but it is actually a nice upgrade to your 2012 model S for sure. It has autopilot 1. It is quieter than the early model S, and it's an SUV vs Sedan with probably similar highway range compared to the first model S. Yes your ranges says 270 miles vs the 250 miles of the id4, but Tesla's range estimates are optimistic and I wouldn't be surprised if both cars have similar highway range. So yes you would have to pay $16K more if you wanted the id4. But if you can sell your model S, with the broken battery, for $17K or more, then you would be better off. But somehow I doubt any dealer/buyer will offer anything decent for a non-functioning model S trade in. : )
We all have different perspectives. We are satisfied with having the EV analogous to having a 1953 Corvette or 1955 Thunderbird. Having owned the latter, I know there are problems and limitations which go with it. We enjoy RWD and have no need of autopilot. Our car is fun to drive in ways no VW is.

As someone whose relatives who before they were murdered, were slave labor for VW during the Holocaust, I have zero interest in contributing to the wealth of heirs of the people who did that.

Given how you contextualized your answer, it's entirely speculative. If you had a Signature S and was in this situation, as we were, I'd give it more credence. Since you are not walking in the shoes of someone with this choice, it's just another random opinion. 😉
 

gaswalla

Model S,3,X.. CT with Austin delivery
Sep 23, 2012
3,375
3,716
San Diego
I have a 2012, I have driven an id4 for an extended period of time... no way that id4 is an "upgrade'. no way.
the infotainment screen doesn't work
the acceleration is pathetic (coming from any Tesla)
the fit and finish is nice and the newness compared to a 2012 is nice.. until you realize it's a glorified LEAF,
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,394
738
San Diego, California
I have a 2012, I have driven an id4 for an extended period of time... no way that id4 is an "upgrade'. no way.
the infotainment screen doesn't work
the acceleration is pathetic (coming from any Tesla)
the fit and finish is nice and the newness compared to a 2012 is nice.. until you realize it's a glorified LEAF,
O it is definitely an upgrade. I have driven a 2013 model S and the fit and finish were terrible compared to my 90D which the id4 fit and finish excel even compared to my 90D. Comfort-wise, the id4 is more comfortable both in road noise and suspension compared to my 90D which was better than the 2013 model S I've driven. I have air suspension. The only thing lacking in the id4 compared to my 90D is the acceleration and sure that is nice. But honestly I have gotten bored of the acceleration and as you age, you realize not everything has to be light speed. Yes the infotainment system still needs work, but the the MCU1 in my 90D still have lag and responsiveness issues to today after countless updates. Not to mention the other issues such as screen leaks and yellowing. Surprising the id4 screen is responsive though it does have period of nonresponsiveness. But when it works, it is actually much smoother than my 90D MCU1. A few updates and that nonresponsive swipes problem will go away. And not to mention ride height and ground clearance of an proper SUV. Rear leg space on the id4 is much better than the model S. But the trunk space of the id4 is slightly smaller than the model S. I can continue on many more things better on the id4 than a 2012/2013 model s. But if acceleration is what you are after, then sure... keep the model s until the battery craps out and then the acceleration 0-60mph is infinite because it doesn't run. : )
 

No2DinosaurFuel

Active Member
Apr 16, 2015
1,394
738
San Diego, California
We all have different perspectives. We are satisfied with having the EV analogous to having a 1953 Corvette or 1955 Thunderbird. Having owned the latter, I know there are problems and limitations which go with it. We enjoy RWD and have no need of autopilot. Our car is fun to drive in ways no VW is.

As someone whose relatives who before they were murdered, were slave labor for VW during the Holocaust, I have zero interest in contributing to the wealth of heirs of the people who did that.

Given how you contextualized your answer, it's entirely speculative. If you had a Signature S and was in this situation, as we were, I'd give it more credence. Since you are not walking in the shoes of someone with this choice, it's just another random opinion. 😉
I wouldn't say it is a random opinion. It is a logical opinion. I have pointed out the pros and cons and the cost of the switch. And yes if I was on your position I would do exactly what I said if Tesla was willing to write me a check for $17K for the used Model S. At that point, the cost of the id4 is less than the cost of the tesla battery repair and I am gaining a lot and only giving up the acceleration and the tesla badge. But I understand not all decisions people make are base on logic and numbers, but as an engineer, that is how I operate.
 

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