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2013 Model S 60kWh

Discussion in 'Tesla for Sale' started by RonnieKorbas, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. RonnieKorbas

    RonnieKorbas Member

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    #1 RonnieKorbas, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
    2013 Model S 60kWh

    >Hey guys. I'm actually opening up this thread to get a quote from YOU, the knowledgeable community.
    I haven't been on here for too long, but in the short time I have noticed that this is not a seller's market. Any and every ad to sell a car here gets grilled by everyone's opinions on how much the car is actually worth. And with good reason. Because being the actual owners, and enthusiasts, you (we), would know best what is the actual worth of these vehicles.
    So I'm going to do this backwards.
    I am going to leave it up to you. What do you think the value is of my car. The $70k is just for kicks.

    Here's everything about the car.
    - 2013, 60kWh, P03995, 65,500 mi.
    Standard Options:
    - Black Paint
    - Textile Black Seats
    - Hard Top
    - Under Warranty
    - All Adapters
    - Clean Title
    EXTRAS:
    > 21" Charcoal Wheels, tires under 500 miles
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  2. JPUConn

    JPUConn Member

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    If it had the pano roof and no air suspension I'd offer $35k and that may even be generous. figure that's a low $70k car new and at a point in mileage that it should be around 50% depreciated and then slower from there. My current car lease is 3yrs 20k miles/year and residual around 50% - but my lease is a Honda so the post warranty time around the corner is not as daunting.

    The positive is the warranty, if it was out of warranty I wouldn't go near it. My napkin math assumes I drive it for the remainder of the warranty then sell with 95k miles on it in 18 months for $25k$ (has to be a floor on price just due to the value of parted out.

    you say clear title - any accidents, damage or paintwork?
     
  3. RonnieKorbas

    RonnieKorbas Member

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    Wow. Not to undermine our opinion, and with all due respect. But that number is a little insulting. Especially since Tesla's quote is the lowest one you can get, and theirs was $45k. And that was before the upgrades.
    Thank you for your insight though.
     
  4. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    Take the $45K. That is a high mileage car with minimum options (no pano, no tech, base interior).

    New is $65K in California with similar options.
    So the discount from new is $10K for two years of driving it and another $10K for mileage.

    IMHO, Tesla is being generous.

    When Tesla resell such a car on their CPO program, they will add the additional warranty which makes buying your car more palatable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Upgrades do not add a lot of value on the used market. They may be nice to you, but that doesn't translate to getting $ for $ what you put in.
    Good fortune with your sale. Like I said. Take the $45 and run.
     
  5. RonnieKorbas

    RonnieKorbas Member

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    Thank you for your candor.
    I appreciate your opinion.
    I still can't beg to differ on the options, especially the wheels. It can't be that one sided, where it costs YOU $5500 to buy wheels and tires, but they raise NO value to the vehicle at all.
    Maybe not exactly what I paid for, but definitely some retention of its value.

    Thanks for your wishes.

    -R.
     
  6. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    Some options (tech, nav, pano) are sought after. 21s on a base 60, IMO, doesn't add much. Some may not want them as it decreases range and increases operating cost. Tesla's offer seems pretty fair.
     
  7. cantdecide

    cantdecide Member

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    My instinct as I read this was 48-50k. For a 60 with options and supercharging I have seen one with 30k miles listed internally where I work at iirc 54k and he could have sold 10 of them in an hour. There is a lot of buying support for model s around $50k as supply is low and it still saves the buyer $3k per year for 10 years even starting at high milage... So at that price the car net costs around $20k. I would list at 52k and see what happens.
     
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    I agree. That seems like a strange set of options-- 21" wheels but no tech package, pano roof, or leather interior? Someone who wants the cheapest possible Tesla by finding a high mileage one without the tech package, etc. isn't going to want to pay more for 21" wheels. If anything they would consider it a negative as eye.surgeon said. What it cost you is irrelevant unless someone values it as much as you did. Another vote here for taking the 45K. Heck, I wouldn't expect much more than that for my 60 with less than 1/3 the mileage and it has tech package, pano roof, and leather interior. And no 21" wheels.
     
  9. RonnieKorbas

    RonnieKorbas Member

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    Well, sure, the 21" take away a LITTLE bit of range. And I'm saying that because I really have NOT seen a substantial difference in the range since I got them, almost 2 months ago. CERTAINLY not 3% decrease they claimed.
    But, I don't understand how you being, an owner, can say that a $5500 option wouldn't play into effect since it's sort of a negative, because of the decrease in range. Since when did Tesla owners and enthusiasts keep "cost" in mind??
    No one who ever bought a Tesla, including myself, bought it because "in 25 years it'll pay off for itself from the savings in gas and maintenance". Come on.
    From a big majority of owners I've spoken to in person, and here, (you Texas EV, being the exception) they DO value the wheels. Maybe not the $5500, but it's something that they definitely play into effect when estimating cost of sale.

    So, I have gotten offers, as the car stands right now, for between $58 and $62.
    I didn't want to let it go that "low" because I'm really attached to my car.
    OF course I agree with you guys that low $50s even high $40s is a miraculous offer. But we can't just base our estimations on "how many miles" this car has, or "how old it is". Especially with electric cars.
    After all, these ARE luxury cars, that DO start out at no less than $70k brand new. That resonance extends as far as the first year of manufacture, and while a little unheard of, it is not impossible to sell an old, high mileage Tesla, at above 60 or 70.
    Take makethemsaywow s car that he just sold. It's a 2012!!! one year older than mine, for god's sake. And he sold it for $74000. Come on.
    Give credit where credit is due. And give value where it is retained.
    I think depreciating Teslas as a lot of people here do is like saying that an ounce of gold is not worth the same BECAUSE it's old. An ounce of gold 10 years ago was $424. That same piece today is worth $1200 because of what it is.

    Yes, of course cars are not gold.

    But are Teslas REALLY cars?....
    I've been driving BMWs for 15 years. What THEY claimed to be "more than a car", so much, that they call it an "ultimate driving machine". And the first time I test drove a Model S, I was dumbfounded (like I'm sure many of you were) at how different these vehicles are. At how they're truly....in essence ...NOT cars.

    So say what you will about my stance, but I don't believe you can depreciate the value of these vehicles the same way you've been for the past 100 years.
    Musk doesn't believe it.
    I don't.
    To fellow Tesla owners....do you really hold your prized possession in that low of a regard and esteem??

    I don't care how many miles my car has - when I drive into work, when it comes to "what do you drive", no one tops me. I own that.

    -R.
     
  10. KJD

    KJD Member

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    What made you decide you might want to sell the car in the first place?
     
  11. PokerBroker

    PokerBroker Member

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    Early S85s with 40k mi+ are fetching $59-65k fully loaded. I would knock you $10-15k for lack of options, mileage, and 60kwh... Landing at a $45k-55k range... Sure that's a bit wide but availability, location, desired options all play a role... That being said I'd take the trade in offer for tax benefits on a new/inventory 85.
     
  12. cantdecide

    cantdecide Member

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    The valuation I listed is what I feel the current market will bear, not what I feel it should be worth.
    A 50k$ Tesla base 60 second hand is actually competing with Honda odyssey etc for TCO, not so much the luxury car segment. They do care a lot how much money it saves them in fuel as that is how it competes in their mind with a minivan. Ultimately this segment of buyers will pay more than the traditional second hand luxury market.

    As to the right price in the future... Eventually the market will realize that batteries depreciate much slower than the rest of the car. A 5 year old 85kwh battery is going to be better than a new 60 by a long way so the battery will still hold most of its value in 5 years. In addition with electric power train and aluminium the Tesla will simply last much longer. I would rather a 5 year old Tesla s to a new Honda odyssey... So eventually the market will figure this all out in a decade or so.
     
  13. RonnieKorbas

    RonnieKorbas Member

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    I hope you're right sir. Goddammit I hope you're right.

    Everyone makes very good, valid points. And your opinions and estimates are quite appreciated.

    And to answer the question as to why it's for sale in the first place:
    I actually put the ad up a long time ago, just after I bought it, to see what I could sell it at at the time, or how much it was worth. If I could find a buyer to give me more than what I paid for, I would have taken the offer and bought a brand new one with the difference. Accidentally, I paid the extra for the "til it sells option", so I didn't bother taking the ad down, JUST in case I gotta good offer At some point. So, my vehicle is not really for sale. But if someone gives me a good, fair offer for both parties, I might take it, and get another one.
    This is my 12th vehicle in 15 years. So. I'm notorious for going through cars like line dancers. Lol

    -Ronnie.
     
  14. Wshowell

    Wshowell Member

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    Here's a few links to comps in SF Bay Area. I suppose they could all be bogus ads but they tend to fall in line with other recent sales we have seen (makethemsaywow) and his beautiful P85 at $72k. Therefore I'm assuming they are legit. Most people will take a cash offer of 90% their asking price in my experience so that would put these S85s in the range of $56k to $60k. Working backwards with a S60 with much higher mileage, a harsher environment (snow, sand, salt, hot summers and cold winters) and the lower range, lesser warranty and I think you are looking at the Tesla $45k being a solid valuation based price. That being said, I bet you could drive it another year and 40k and it'd only depreciate a little more. I think you're at the bottom of the depreciation curve for now. Some links to support my points that may or may not be active at the time you are reading this.
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4950310823.html

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4950311180.html

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4935399244.html

    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/4950310364.html

    of course, putting it out there at $50k would make it the least expensive non salvaged Model S I have seen and therefore someone that wants one bad enough but is truly stretched would have to pay your asking price or they don't get their car. That's the angle I'd take.
     
  15. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    This is what I would be thinking if I was a possible buyer. The 21"s are a negative. Non tech cars are hard to sell.
     
  16. cgiGuy

    cgiGuy Member

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    I think Tesla did take into account your wheels when they made the offer. I have an offer from them on my 60, that has quite a few more options (see signature) and half of the miles of yours, and it was $49K. Would be happy to send it to you for comparison, if you'd like. I'd take the $45K, especially if you're trading up to another Tesla. In Texas we will save the tax on the trade-in allowance.
     
  17. tga

    tga Active Member

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    Maybe in the distant future. Short term, I would expect another substantial drop in S valuations when the X starts selling, and a bunch of current S owners look to upgrade (think P85D intro round 2).

    I once had a Porsche salesman tell me "I have customers who change cars the way you and I change shoes". If you want to play that game, you have to expect to dance with the depreciation devil.
     
  18. nitrochino

    nitrochino Member

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    Put it on Ebay with no reserve. Let the market decide.

    The only plus sign with 21" is that they look nicer, especially in grey color. The ride quality is far worse than 19", and cost a lot more to maintain.
     
  19. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    My comment about the 21" wheels was because the tires have to be replaced more often, not so much about the range.
     
  20. RonnieKorbas

    RonnieKorbas Member

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    I don't know. In the 3 months I've had my 21" and I had the 19" the three months prior, I don't notice ANY of the differences that people, or even Tesla talk about. The decrease in range is SUPER minimal. I wouldn't even say 2%, which would be 5 miles. It's pretty much identical.
    Also, because I don't drive like a maniac, my tires still have the tread they had originally, and don't really see a change, and don't expect to. I never have with previous cars, because of my driving habits.
    And actually, the ride quality is FAR better than the 19"s. The vehicle drives more like what it's supposed to, as opposed to that "old man's car" feeling I got with the 19". :/

    I understand that they have to be replaced often, but again, my point still stands. Who in their right minds bought a Tesla hoping to "save money"? Seriously...in Texas, my car cost about the same as my house. It's not a small purchase AT ALL. So, when I decided to take the leap, I wasn't expecting to not fork out large amounts of cash for any repairs, or maintenance it may need. So, I have to buy $295 tires every year....so what! I spend way more on dining out, or TVs, or 3D Blu ray movies a year....
    For me it's worth it.

    I wouldn't want to put it on ebay with no reserve only because I'm afraid it'll end up really low, and end up biting me in the ass, and losing money.
    I've never seen one, even the old high mileage ones, sold at less than $55 (unless it was salvaged), but I still don't know that I want to take that risk.

    -R.
     

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