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2013 P85+ trade-in value at local BMW

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It's better than without the upgrade, but those of us with a good ear can hear the difference in a high quality aftermarket or even high quality stock upgrade and what Tesla calls their "upgrade"

It isn't bad, it just isn't up to the "caliber" of the car or other cars in its class... same with the interior. Still love my Tesla, but these are just facts. Compare the actual components and they aren't to the same level. I've had aftermarket systems I spent $4k on that would absolutely destroy the tesla upgraded system...

I often wonder if the upgraded system isn't so hot because they're trying to keep it efficient power draw wise...
The stereo is definitely not up to the quality level of other marques. You're correct, though, supposedly Tesla kept the design in-house because no one wanted to work with them to design high-efficiency components that were lightweight and low in power consumption. So they designed their own. For a first try they were somewhat successful, I think. Certainly there doesn't seem to be much range impact, even when cranking up the power-hungry sub, but the quality leaves something to be desired, especially as volume increases.

Then again there are several items (and to Tesla's defense--I'm sure they have it on their radar) that just seem common place today:
- AWD option
- Heads-up display
- Lane warned departure
- Adaptive cruise control
- Real high end stereo
- Comfortable sports seats with 12-14 or 18 way options and side bolsters
These are to name a few.

Again, I'm sure they are working on it.

Agreed. Simply, they cannot continue to compete at this price level without features common on even much more modestly-priced cars. Fortunately, we actually have knowledge of several of those being in development, and as you say, I'm sure the rest are being worked on behind-the-scenes.
 
texex91, I do the same thing, but with high-end cell phones instead of cars. It's a bit more affordable! :-D

I hope you have a great time with all your cars! My S85 is due in about a month and a half, and I'll probably stick with it at least 3 years and then see what the latest is from Tesla at that point. But, in the meantime I'll probably go through as many cell phones as you do cars. I'm gearing up to buy an LG G3 right now. (Didn't think the Quad HD screen would matter but wow it's beautiful so probably will get it soon...)
 
texex91, I do the same thing, but with high-end cell phones instead of cars. It's a bit more affordable! :-D

I hope you have a great time with all your cars! My S85 is due in about a month and a half, and I'll probably stick with it at least 3 years and then see what the latest is from Tesla at that point. But, in the meantime I'll probably go through as many cell phones as you do cars. I'm gearing up to buy an LG G3 right now. (Didn't think the Quad HD screen would matter but wow it's beautiful so probably will get it soon...)

Awesome...you have a great build! You'll enjoy the S85 big time!

If you get an iPhone 6 first let us know :biggrin:
 
Catching up on this thread. Dunno why some folks are kicking @texex91, he's just reporting his observations and opinions, and pretty nicely, too. On top of that, he's also clearly a Tesla supporter.

One of the few things I don't like about TMC is the almost paranoid hostility from some members towards anything other than most supportive statements, often followed by ad hominem arguments. Based on previous patterns, I expect that by the end of this thread I'll find someone accusing @texex91 of being a short-seller. :)

I haven't followed @texex91's posts all across the forum, and so maybe elsewhere he is less reasonable. But in this thread, so far, he's been pretty reasonable in the face of the negativity.

I contribute infrequently to this forum which makes me all the more grateful for those who post their experiences and reasoned opinions.

Alan

Thanks for those that know I DO NOT hate the Tesla S. The EXACT opposite--I probably am indirectly responsible for at least a half dozen people going from P to P+.

The OP asked about resale and I answered. You have to have sold your car in order to give accurate feedback of your experience in selling :cursing:.

Never once bashed the Tesla in my post. But everyone jumps on me for selling? Sorry I didn't keep it--it's ok folks.

Just answering the post honestly.

For those complaining, chill, your car is good. Life is good. No need to bash someone giving an honest answer.

And yes AIMc, you hit the nail on the head--once the AWD with longer range comes out, I'll be first in line.

Heck I might even be persuaded before then, but reading some of these posts reminds me of the 'anti-anything else Tesla' some owners have...not cool at all.
 
Catching up on this thread. Dunno why some folks are kicking @texex91, he's just reporting his observations and opinions, and pretty nicely, too. On top of that, he's also clearly a Tesla supporter.

One of the few things I don't like about TMC is the almost paranoid hostility from some members towards anything other than most supportive statements, often followed by ad hominem arguments. Based on previous patterns, I expect that by the end of this thread I'll find someone accusing @texex91 of being a short-seller. :)

I haven't followed @texex91's posts all across the forum, and so maybe elsewhere he is less reasonable. But in this thread, so far, he's been pretty reasonable in the face of the negativity.

I contribute infrequently to this forum which makes me all the more grateful for those who post their experiences and reasoned opinions.

Alan

Thank you kind member :smile:

I am indeed a fan of Tesla and ready to get another one once a few things have been added. Great car.
 
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If

If selling a car to a dealer of the same brand, they would probably be more willing to give higher offers since they are likely to profit more on it through service.
If you listed it for direct sale, I'm certain you would have received higher offers.


+1

Plus, a BMW dealer is immediately going to hide a Model S they acquire and resell it for whatever they can get from a wholesaler. No way they're going to keep it on their lot where it will attract attention from BMW customers.
 
+1

Plus, a BMW dealer is immediately going to hide a Model S they acquire and resell it for whatever they can get from a wholesaler. No way they're going to keep it on their lot where it will attract attention from BMW customers.

Actually you would be surprised, most import lots will wholesale most trades (even other high end brands).

Tesla or not, it probably would not stay on the lot unless it was the same brand they sell (and even then it's a big if).

And I did list my P+ directly also when I was selling, and got nothing but low ball offers from individuals, just FYI.

Keep in mind last year when I sold, there were not that many around. Now in Austin they are a dime a dozen like in CA (well not quite that bad). So, I'd be curious from someone who has sold recently in Austin (or TX) what their experience was with even more inventory out in the market.
 
Thank you kind sir :smile:

Thanks for posting - love reading about all your cars.

I am somewhat similar (except I was only buying new cars about every 6 mos.). Immediately before the Model S I had a 2013 M5 for about 6 months. Had the B&O sound system in that. Before that, had an Audi A7 with the B&O. I am another one willing to pay the extra (excessive) $ for the factory installed sound system. And they were, in my opinion, better than the upgraded sound in the Model S.

I see people talking about "business decisions" but for me, buying cars has nothing to do with business. I consider the hits I take on trading in "entertainment expenses". I am fully aware it doesn't make good business sense and I don't care. It's what I choose to spend my hard earned $$$ on.

I will say that the Model S has sort of stopped my addiction. I've had it for a year and, as of now, have no desire for anything else. We'll see how long that lasts. :)

A small sample of some of my recent rides:

_DSC0505.jpg

_DSC0477-2.JPG

P1010081.JPG

Model S.jpg
 
Thanks for posting - love reading about all your cars.

I am somewhat similar (except I was only buying new cars about every 6 mos.). Immediately before the Model S I had a 2013 M5 for about 6 months. Had the B&O sound system in that. Before that, had an Audi A7 with the B&O. I am another one willing to pay the extra (excessive) $ for the factory installed sound system. And they were, in my opinion, better than the upgraded sound in the Model S.

I see people talking about "business decisions" but for me, buying cars has nothing to do with business. I consider the hits I take on trading in "entertainment expenses". I am fully aware it doesn't make good business sense and I don't care. It's what I choose to spend my hard earned $$$ on.

I will say that the Model S has sort of stopped my addiction. I've had it for a year and, as of now, have no desire for anything else. We'll see how long that lasts. :)

A small sample of some of my recent rides:

Great write up Mike--good to know I'm not the only serial flipper in the world LOL!

I too look at cars as entertainment. I've done okay in life and choose to spend my $$ in different ways than some.

I chose not to have children, I've worked hard and I love cars. It certainly gives me flexibility.

Mike your cars look great--that P+ is hot!

To have made it a year that is most certainly on the road to recovery :biggrin:!!

Did I mention 560HP in the Audi...just kidding!!!
 
texex91, I do the same thing, but with high-end cell phones instead of cars. It's a bit more affordable! :-D

I hope you have a great time with all your cars! My S85 is due in about a month and a half, and I'll probably stick with it at least 3 years and then see what the latest is from Tesla at that point. But, in the meantime I'll probably go through as many cell phones as you do cars. I'm gearing up to buy an LG G3 right now. (Didn't think the Quad HD screen would matter but wow it's beautiful so probably will get it soon...)

I do this too... Running the Tmobile Galaxy Note 3 rooted, custom ROM and on AT&T's network :)
 
I'll join in thanking texex91 for his "re-sale report." It's not surprising (in 20/20 hindsight) that the Tesla wouldn't be a good car to "flip", under the circumstances, but it's nonetheless a useful piece of data...

And I did list my P+ directly also when I was selling, and got nothing but low ball offers from individuals, just FYI.

Up until recently, the higher-end models (P, P+) were being offered by Tesla with a 1 month delivery schedule. Why would I buy used when I can get essentially the same car from Tesla, brand-new and custom-built to my specification, within a few weeks -- with the $7500 tax credit as a sweetener? Faced with that choice, I'd certainly expect a fairly large discount from the purchase price for the new car (which is probably still close to what was paid if it's only been a few months) -- 20% (100K on a 120K well-equipped P+, representing about a 10% discount off what was actually paid) doesn't seem especially unreasonable, and I'd expect a performance car (including the big "known unknown" -- your driving habits :scared:) to be higher than that.
 
The stereo is definitely not up to the quality level of other marques. You're correct, though, supposedly Tesla kept the design in-house because no one wanted to work with them to design high-efficiency components that were lightweight and low in power consumption. So they designed their own. For a first try they were somewhat successful, I think. Certainly there doesn't seem to be much range impact, even when cranking up the power-hungry sub, but the quality leaves something to be desired, especially as volume increases..
Yea I was thinking the same thing- they probably have a specific requirement for lower power consumption which probably limits the choices a good bit... Mine still sounds good, but I've had stereos I built myself in the past that had way more clarity across the entire spectrum... and of course MUCH more power. :)
 
Catching up on this thread. Dunno why some folks are kicking @texex91, he's just reporting his observations and opinions, and pretty nicely, too. On top of that, he's also clearly a Tesla supporter.

One of the few things I don't like about TMC is the almost paranoid hostility from some members towards anything other than most supportive statements, often followed by ad hominem arguments. Based on previous patterns, I expect that by the end of this thread I'll find someone accusing @texex91 of being a short-seller. :)

I haven't followed @texex91's posts all across the forum, and so maybe elsewhere he is less reasonable. But in this thread, so far, he's been pretty reasonable in the face of the negativity.

I contribute infrequently to this forum which makes me all the more grateful for those who post their experiences and reasoned opinions.

Alan

I don't think anyone has attacked him although that seems to be how it is taken.
People were genuinely confused by someone who burst onto the forum with such enthusiasm about the + upgrade and pushed everyone to upgrade then sells the car 3 months later after only driving something like 600 miles. Nothing really wrong with that other than the obviously losing money issue but just confusing to many people. Especially with the new information about 4-5 cars a year. Most people simply hold onto cars they buy for 5 years at least I'd imagine.

Either way the resale value will always take a hit at a dealership over a private sale. Top end models almost always drop more than more affordable models. Tex has a very expensive car buying habit so will win on flipping some cars and lose on others.

Tex: Is there some way to rent new cars like this for three months at a time and turn them back into dealer at a predetermined price?
 
Very interesting post but I must disagree with Tex about the Model S resale value. Like several folks here I love to flip "stuff" and I flip just about everything - mostly houses and cars, but also electronics too. I've owned 4 Model Ss - one S85 and 3 P85s (still have my 2012 P85 which I will never part with) and I've made an average of 5K per transaction. Won't question why you accepted such a low offer Tex, clearly you know what you are doing - perhaps it was a Texas thing, but I honestly believe I could have made more, especially on the first one. Anyway, I always enjoyed your old post and no doubt you'll be back. Cheers..
 
I don't think anyone has attacked him although that seems to be how it is taken.
People were genuinely confused by someone who burst onto the forum with such enthusiasm about the + upgrade and pushed everyone to upgrade then sells the car 3 months later after only driving something like 600 miles. Nothing really wrong with that other than the obviously losing money issue but just confusing to many people. Especially with the new information about 4-5 cars a year. Most people simply hold onto cars they buy for 5 years at least I'd imagine.

Either way the resale value will always take a hit at a dealership over a private sale. Top end models almost always drop more than more affordable models. Tex has a very expensive car buying habit so will win on flipping some cars and lose on others.

Tex: Is there some way to rent new cars like this for three months at a time and turn them back into dealer at a predetermined price?

Well I certainly cannot explain my car buying sickness to most, so I can see how it would be hard for many to believe one buys so many cars. However, I know there are plenty of folks like me out there.

As far as forums go, once I lock in on something I like, I do "tend to burst on a forum" and find out as much about it, get other info, make sure it's what I want, etc. Not unusual--at least for me. With Tesla it was even easier to get sucked in, because there is a ton a interest and this forum (much more so than other car forums) is very active.

However, like many cars, the next one is around the corner, so they ultimately get sold, and hence don't spend as much time on forum.

The good news is, the ones I like, I tend to buy again (hence Tesla P+ thoughts in my mind).

As to the renting, not as fun for me--plus Hertz doesn't carry what I normally would like :biggrin:

Again, great forum, and I've always (tried) to be positive--certainly never bashed the car or the brand. I'm a believer!

Very interesting post but I must disagree with Tex about the Model S resale value. Like several folks here I love to flip "stuff" and I flip just about everything - mostly houses and cars, but also electronics too. I've owned 4 Model Ss - one S85 and 3 P85s (still have my 2012 P85 which I will never part with) and I've made an average of 5K per transaction. Won't question why you accepted such a low offer Tex, clearly you know what you are doing - perhaps it was a Texas thing, but I honestly believe I could have made more, especially on the first one. Anyway, I always enjoyed your old post and no doubt you'll be back. Cheers..

Location certainly would have something to do with it. Again, last Oct there were a lot of things going on (mis information about fires, etc) that may have impacted as well. That's why I would love to get feedback from others that sold. If you've owned 4, sounds like you did ok. Don't know how you made money, unless you were exporting, as people can buy for list price a brand new one. Let us know your secret.
 
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Well I certainly cannot explain my car buying sickness to most, so I can see how it would be hard for many to believe one buys so many cars. However, I know there are plenty of folks like me out there. Once I lock in on something I like, I do "tend to burst on a forum" and find out as much about it, get other info, make sure it's what I want, etc. Not unusual--at least for me. With Tesla it was even easier to get sucked in, because there is a ton a interest and this forum (much more so than other car forums) is very active. However, like many cars, the next one is around the corner, so they ultimately get sold, and hence don't spend as much time on forum.

As to the renting, not as fun for me--plus Hertz doesn't carry what I normally would like :biggrin:

Again, great forum, and I've always (tired) to be positive--certainly never bashed the car or the brand. I'm a believer!



Location certainly would have something to do with it. Again, last Oct there were a lot of things going on (mis information about fires, etc) that may have impacted as well. That's why I would love to get feedback from others that sold. If you've owned 4, sounds like you did ok. Don't know how you made money, unless you were exporting, as people can buy for list price a brand new one. Let us know your secret.

And we appreciate having you around. Hopefully Tesla will come out with the upgrades for you to buy again and keep it in the garage as one of the ones that doesn't get flipped:)
 
The Tesla 'upgraded sound' is like an AM radio compared to B&O--that's a fact.
Meh, to each his/her own. But comments like this will likely stoke some fire. Fact is, that is an opinion. Not a fact. Maybe it's not up to the same level (perhaps). But your characterization is an opinion. Good to know the difference. But wording like that will probably paint you negatively in some people's minds.
 
Meh, to each his/her own. But comments like this will likely stoke some fire. Fact is, that is an opinion. Not a fact. Maybe it's not up to the same level (perhaps). But your characterization is an opinion. Good to know the difference. But wording like that will probably paint negatively in you some people's minds.

You're correct, I shouldn't have used the word fact. MY very humble apology.

HOWEVER, IF you actually have owned both, then it would be a informed opinion. However, I'd be willing to bet that spec to spec it's a fact :biggrin:

Just curious, have you heard a high end B&O in a car?

Just asking, because anyone I know who has one, finds it hard to move to somethings else.

In my case (opinion) my Tesla stereo was certainly lacking and not even in the same stratosphere as B&O (or Burmester). I've owned all three, so just saying...

ALL CARS (hello) have areas for improvement, it's my OPINION the stereo in Tesla is one.

Hey, wait a minute, maybe the crappy stereo is the reason for the poor resale. LMAO--just kidding!!! Don't panic or flame me! It's a joke--people can do that about the Tesla--it's ok :wink:
 
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