2014 MS 85 Battery Died - need advise

[Zolfeghar]

My 2014 MS Battery shut down completely without warning last week (7 weeks after the warranty expired). Happened right after I drove through a nasty rainstorm here in SoCal. Got a couple of messages: "hv-battery-replacement__alert_secondary" & "Vehicle will not start". Towed it to the SC who diagnosed it with a high voltage isolation problem. The service manager said they traced the problem to the back of the pack and that the nature of the problem rules out water egress (no idea if that's true or just BS). I'd tried to have the SC drop the battery for inspection a week before the warranty ran out but they said they were unable to do so because of corrosion on at least one of the bolts on the outside of the pack.
Currently my options are to replace the pack through Tesla - they want about $14k (before taxes) to replace with a new 85 kWh battery (1918190-85A). They stated it's a new battery so could be a SW limited 90. Another option is to replace or repair the battery. I'd like to get the car back up an running and then sell it after 6-12 months.

ReCell is one option but to get the same size battery looks to be $11,900 and I'd have to pay to ship it back to LA so that'd be $13K which isn't that much less than Tesla which is new vs refurbished. ReCell offers a $7500 option but I'm worried it will negatively impact resale value.

My problem is that I have no idea about the nature of this high voltage isolation failure. There are no centers near me to diagnose. My main question is how to determine if it's repairable. Is replacement my only option? Would @wk057 be able to repair it or maybe do a remote diagnosis?

I really don't want to have to pay $14k for a new battery. I like the car a lot but have come to the sad conclusion that with my next EV I need to sell it before the battery warranty expires.

 

[WallysRide]

I'm sorry to hear that you're in a difficult spot with your car. My suggestion is to make this decision based upon if you would be happy driving your 2014 car for several more years if you got it back up and running (also factoring in that you might need a drive unit replacement down the road if you have a large drive unit in the rear).

If yes, then I would take the $14K Tesla option because that's a good price (a reman price) for what looks like the new 350V software-capped replacement. I would make sure that's what you're getting.

If no, then I would suggest selling the car as is, for somewhere under 20K (depending on how nice the car is otherwise), to someone who might be interesting in doing the reCell option and getting a decent overall value. The challenging with your reselling the car in 6-12 months is that used Tesla prices are cratering, and I think you're probably better off selling now and educating potential buyers about the reCell option. I wonder if a used buyer of your car could possibly qualify for the new tax credit for used EVs.

 

[NV Ray]

Give me a call at 775.476.2912 (PST) if you want to discuss my similar situation and decision process.

 

[wk057]

High voltage isolation issue could be a number of things. You have the error codes presented?

Tesla's explanation is weird. If there's an isolation issue in "the back of the pack", that almost certainly _is_ moisture related. There's pretty much no other way to get an internal isolation issue without moisture (or physical damage from an accident). If it is indeed the pack, it'll need replacing. There's generally no way to repair such issues. But, it could be one of several other components outside of the pack, depending on the exact errors. Tesla is quite terrible at diagnosing these issues, in my experience, which is especially problematic out of warranty.

We can assist with a replacement, but being on the west coast you're at about ~$3k in round trip transport costs off the top, plus the replacement service costs. 99% of the time this still works out to be less expensive than Tesla, with the service costs coming in averaging around $6500 for like-to-like replacements, but it all depends on the condition of the core battery pack.

Also, it may not even be your battery pack, but would have to diagnose to confirm which can't really be done remotely. Can get a little more insight with the exact error codes (like BMS_f036 and such), but still some guesswork otherwise.

 

[Rocky_H]

they want about $14k (before taxes) to replace with a new 85 kWh battery (1918190-85A). [...] ReCell offers a $7500 option but I'm worried it will negatively impact resale value.

You're talking about an 8 year old car. Resale value is already going to be low. The only appreciable resale value difference you will be able to get is based on whether it has a functioning battery pack or not. Going with this $7,500 option isn't going to move that needle much.

 

[wk057]

Resale value already kind of tanked. I just bought a working clean title no-accidents 2015 85 with no errors/issues < 100k miles for $22k, and I've another right behind it at about the same price. At those prices, it's almost not worth fixing most of these. We'll usually buy them for market value minus repair costs minus a little overhead when customers don't want to fix them, too, so there's that.

 

[AMPd]

Resale value already kind of tanked. I just bought a working clean title no-accidents 2015 85 with no errors/issues < 100k miles for $22k, and I've another right behind it at about the same price. At those prices, it's almost not worth fixing most of these. We'll usually buy them for market value minus repair costs minus a little overhead when customers don't want to fix them, too, so there's that.

What do you do with the cars? Repair and sell them or scrap it for parts?

 

[aerodyne]

This is a long shot, but worth a try.

Since it has been documented the the pack was not removed by Tesla because of corroded bolts,

And since the bolts are part of the battery pack per the EPC, I'd try to argue the pack failed within warranty.

Agree with @wk057 that it is most likely moisture in the pack.

There is a SB procedure for checking the HVIL loop. One should be able to find out where the voltage leak is coming from.

 

[wk057]

What do you do with the cars? Repair and sell them or scrap it for parts?

I'm building an army of remote controlled Teslas and plan on taking over the world soon.

lol.

In seriousness, we do whatever makes sense. We'll break them down for parts most of the time if they're not worth repairing, but if the body is in good shape it'll probably get repaired at some point and resold. We don't make much, if any, money on such purchases/resales, though.

 

[brainhouston]

I'm building an army of remote controlled Teslas and plan on taking over the world soon.

Couldn't resist

 

[tubaprde]

This is a long shot, but worth a try.

Since it has been documented the the pack was not removed by Tesla because of corroded bolts,

And since the bolts are part of the battery pack per the EPC, I'd try to argue the pack failed within warranty.

Agree with @wk057 that it is most likely moisture in the pack.

There is a SB procedure for checking the HVIL loop. One should be able to find out where the voltage leak is coming from.

yup, i'd lawyer up if needed

 

[tubaprde]

My 2014 MS Battery shut down completely without warning last week (7 weeks after the warranty expired). Happened right after I drove through a nasty rainstorm here in SoCal. Got a couple of messages: "hv-battery-replacement__alert_secondary" & "Vehicle will not start". Towed it to the SC who diagnosed it with a high voltage isolation problem. The service manager said they traced the problem to the back of the pack and that the nature of the problem rules out water egress (no idea if that's true or just BS). I'd tried to have the SC drop the battery for inspection a week before the warranty ran out but they said they were unable to do so because of corrosion on at least one of the bolts on the outside of the pack.
Currently my options are to replace the pack through Tesla - they want about $14k (before taxes) to replace with a new 85 kWh battery (1918190-85A). They stated it's a new battery so could be a SW limited 90. Another option is to replace or repair the battery. I'd like to get the car back up an running and then sell it after 6-12 months.

ReCell is one option but to get the same size battery looks to be $11,900 and I'd have to pay to ship it back to LA so that'd be $13K which isn't that much less than Tesla which is new vs refurbished. ReCell offers a $7500 option but I'm worried it will negatively impact resale value.

My problem is that I have no idea about the nature of this high voltage isolation failure. There are no centers near me to diagnose. My main question is how to determine if it's repairable. Is replacement my only option? Would @wk057 be able to repair it or maybe do a remote diagnosis?

I really don't want to have to pay $14k for a new battery. I like the car a lot but have come to the sad conclusion that with my next EV I need to sell it before the battery warranty expires.

so that's a new 85 (maybe 90 pack) with a 4yr Tesla warranty for $14k, is that right? seems like a no brainer unless i'm missing something

 

[Zolfeghar]

yup, i'd lawyer up if needed

Interesting idea. The other thing is that when they tried to remove the battery (while it was under warranty) they stripped one of the bolts and just left it as is. Now they are saying that I need to take the car to a body shop and repair that stripped bolt at my own expense before they can drop the battery. I gave them a car with an untouched pack and they returned it damaged. SC said that corrosion is not covered but shouldn't the fact that they damaged it mean that they are responsible for fixing it?

 

[Zolfeghar]

so that's a new 85 (maybe 90 pack) with a 4yr Tesla warranty for $14k, is that right? seems like a no brainer unless i'm missing something

It's a no brainer if I want to keep the car for 2-3 more years. I was hoping to sell the car and use it for a down payment on a Lucid Air Pure I've reserved which will be ready in Q1-Q2 so I'm trying to decide what is the best option if I was to sell it this year. The car had the rear drive unit replaced 14-momths ago (1002633-00-T) and is in perfect condition.

 

[aerodyne]

Interesting idea. The other thing is that when they tried to remove the battery (while it was under warranty) they stripped one of the bolts and just left it as is. Now they are saying that I need to take the car to a body shop and repair that stripped bolt at my own expense before they can drop the battery. I gave them a car with an untouched pack and they returned it damaged. SC said that corrosion is not covered but shouldn't the fact that they damaged it mean that they are responsible for fixing it?

Yes. There are means to remove a bolt that has seized without stripping the threads off the bolt or the mating threaded interface.

 

[tubaprde]

It's a no brainer if I want to keep the car for 2-3 more years. I was hoping to sell the car and use it for a down payment on a Lucid Air Pure I've reserved which will be ready in Q1-Q2 so I'm trying to decide what is the best option if I was to sell it this year. The car had the rear drive unit replaced 14-momths ago (1002633-00-T) and is in perfect condition.

the 4yr warr will pass onto the next owner though if you sell after 12mo. there's a ton of resale value in that if i'm not mistaken

 

[WallysRide]

With a brand new HV battery with 4 year warranty, and a relatively new drive unit, and "perfect condition," I agree that you'll do somewhat better by getting the new Tesla battery and then selling it immediately. There is a market for ppl who want an S and will buy an 8 year old S instead of a 1 year old 3. If you do it as quickly as possible, you might be able to get a mid-30s price. A year ago, you could have gotten mid 40s for a perfect condition 8 year old S with brand new warrantied battery and relatively new drive unit.

I would be wary of holding on to it for another 6-12 months, though. After that, buyers are not going to value the "newish" battery and drive unit nearly as much. They will pay a premium for brand new.

 

[Zolfeghar]

I'm building an army of remote controlled Teslas and plan on taking over the world soon.

lol.

In seriousness, we do whatever makes sense. We'll break them down for parts most of the time if they're not worth repairing, but if the body is in good shape it'll probably get repaired at some point and resold. We don't make much, if any, money on such purchases/resales, though.

Question for @wk057
In your experience what percentage of pre-2015 MS that you service for battery failure are due to water egress from the A/C hose issue

 

[wk057]

Question for @wk057
In your experience what percentage of pre-2015 MS that you service for battery failure are due to water egress from the A/C hose issue

(Misread this initially.)

Hard to tell for sure if from the A/C hose specifically, but water ingress is definitely the cause of the majority of pre-2015 pack failures in my experience. An exact percentage, unsure, but more than 4 in 5.

 

[Zolfeghar]

(Misread this initially.)

Hard to tell for sure if from the A/C hose specifically, but water ingress is definitely the cause of the majority of pre-2015 pack failures in my experience. An exact percentage, unsure, but more than 4 in 5.

Thanks. Have you observed less water egress failures (relatively speaking) in vehicles after Tesla re-route the hose away from the battery?