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2014 Mt. Washington Trip

Discussion in 'New England' started by santana338, May 8, 2014.

  1. skboston

    skboston Member

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    I signed up for their event and going tomorrow for a day trip unless something unexpected comes up. My only concern with so many electric vehicles in the area is charging for the back trip.
    Have anyone used the HWPC at the Mt. Washington Hotel without being a guest for the night there? As this is going to be my first longer distance trip and no Superchargers around, EV Trip Planner tells me I'd be averaging 350wh/m and would need about 125KW energy and that's about 2.5-3 hours worth of HWPC charging time.

    Any advice for the trip considering the expected heavy presence of EV's up there?
     
  2. robby

    robby Member

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    I recommend going to the Omni for cocktails or dinner and telling them you're a bit desperate and ask if you can charge your car while you get food and drinks. We go to the Omni pretty frequently and those spots are almost always empty, so they may not be very strict about it as a matter of policy.
     
  3. PeterK

    PeterK Model X & 3 Owner

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    As the guy who badgered them for a year until they installed them, I agree. And it's a beautiful place to enjoy a drink or dinner at sunset. iBut Stoil please note that they installed two NEMA 14-50 50 Amp plugs, not HPWCs. So you'll get about 27 rated miles per hour of charging.
     
  4. santana338

    santana338 Member

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    Unfortunately I am not going to be able to make it. But last year I did use the 70A charger at the base of Mt. Washington. There will be a lot of EVs, but I imagine you will still be able to pick up a good amount of charge there even if you have to wait in line and/or share the charger.
     
  5. skboston

    skboston Member

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    I was planning to get some food and drinks at the hotel while the car was charging.

    Thanks Peter for the reminded that it's NEMA 14-50 and not HWPC, for some reason in my mind I've always thought they had HWPC for us available there, wouldn't that be nice? :)

    I'm really hoping to be able to take advantage of the 70A charger for a couple of hours after I get down from the top, as that's how much I'll need to be able to make it back home, based on my basic calculations.

    Thanks for the feedback! I'll be with my camera, so I'll make sure I take some good photos from the event and the top :) Send me a message if someone decides to jump on board last minute.
     
  6. PeterK

    PeterK Model X & 3 Owner

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    Let's see if Mat can offer them an HPWC from the Destination Charging Program, to supplement the NEMAs. But I imagine we need to have a few more owners stopping by and charging for them to see the merit in running another 100A to the parking lot. To date only Bhuwan and I have commented on Plugshare about having used it, though there must be others who have charged there.

    Enjoy the trip and view, Stoil! Looking forward to photos.
     
  7. robby

    robby Member

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    As a hopeful-to-be Tesla owner next year, thanks for badgering them! And seconded on the scenery and ambiance; everything is so beautiful and eloquent. Drinks on the rotunda feels like a scene out of the Great Gatsby.
     
  8. skboston

    skboston Member

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    #28 skboston, Sep 13, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
    Alright, the day is over and I'm tired, but figured I'll share few points from my day trip to Mt. Washington today. Let me start by saying that it was a blast, but it was kind of disappointing that there was only 1 Tesla owner present there from VT, but about him you'll find out later on. I hope he reads this forum as I forgot to grab his number.

    This was my first long trip and outside of any Super Chargers, I had some range anxiety given my little experience with the car and not knowing how much energy I would burn through the hills climbing to the Auto Road alone. As any other person preparing for a trip, I set my car to start charging at 5AM to a full charge, so it can be fully ready by 7AM (my start time from home) to minimize the time at full charge and reduce battery damage if any would occur.
    It was a little disappointing when I saw that my full charge shows only 258 rated miles, but I've read a lot on the issues, so I decided to ignore it and wait on 6.0 and see if that will return to full 265 rated miles.

    My trip on the way to the Auto Road in Mt. Washington started with significant energy usage for no reason at all, first 10 miles I was barely able to squeeze 450wh/m with no heating on. It was cold outside ~50 degrees, so my thought was maybe that's normal, so it was another thing I ignored.
    The trip from my house to the destination is about 150 miles and I have chosen to take I-93--> I-495--> I-95--> Rt. 16 all the way to the top rather than just I-93 all the way. Reading here on the forum I knew I should have at least 40 miles left of charge if I want to be able to climb the last 8 miles, so at some point I started to worry as my average usage was going down, but slowly and my rated range would drop much faster going up those hills on Rt.16. I was very careful with my heavy foot, so I was driving very gentle on the way there, long story short, 3 hours later and a quick stop to Dunkin Donuts I reached my destination with 71 miles to spare and average usage of 367wh/m.

    As soon as I arrived, I was greeted by a home made electric motorcycle, which prompted for the beginning of an exciting day and people were fascinating by the Tesla, while I was all over the other home made electric vehicles of all kind.

    I'll end my story for the night here, but give you a glimpse of my energy usage on the final 8 miles to the top. mt_climb_top_usage.jpg

    P.S. Cool pics to follow.
     
  9. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

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    Was it raining? That always lowers your range. I look forward to your pics.
     
  10. PeterK

    PeterK Model X & 3 Owner

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    I thought it might have been the cool morning requiring power to warm the battery, but if you just finished range charging the battery should have been pretty well warmed up. On cold days it's a good idea to run the heat - not in Eco mode - while charging.

    Great that you made it, Stoil. Enjoyed reading this far and look forward to the rest of the story and photos. Thanks.
     
  11. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    How many miles do you gain on regen on the way down? Where do you charge to get back home and how long did that take?
     
  12. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    Charging/Lodging | ALT Energy Summit presented by NH Electric Cooperative

    I hate to think what the line for the CS-90 at the base was like. :wink:

    I wish I had known about it in advance - looks like it would have been fun to go.
     
  13. skboston

    skboston Member

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    It wasn't raining in the morning, actually nothing unusual except for the 50 degree weather, but let's leave that for another topic.

    @HankLloydRight

    I deliberately left that for the second part of the story :)

    As I said earlier, I was greeted by an electric motorcycle and directed to the dedicated parking spot on the lawn near the toll house that was full of interesting vehicles, some stock, some hobby ones and some made for EV racing. As soon as I got out of the car, I realized how unprepared I was for the weather conditions (just a sweater I took with me in the trunk and no gloves), windy and in lower 50's at the base. My immediate thought after I met with Ted and a bunch of other EV enthusiasts was to find that precious 70AMP charger, so I can charge for the return trip, as most of the folks I met there were staying overnight either in tents or nearby, which I took as a sign of hope lower waiting time at that charger.
    While walking around admiring some of the projects people have come up, I noticed the presence of another Tesla owner that have come from Vermont, whom I didn't meet until we climbed the summit and would tell me that he planned his trip in advance and have arrived the night before with low rated miles left, slept in a air mattress in the back of the car and charged it overnight at the 70AMP charger, so others can use it during the day for their needs. I think at that point I realized how dedicated and thoughtful people are that the ALT Energy summit.

    Here are some photos before we started the joint climbing of the summit:

    IMG_0053.jpg IMG_9692.jpg IMG_9697.jpg IMG_9702.jpg IMG_9712.jpg IMG_9709.jpg IMG_9713.jpg


    As you can see there are quite interesting cars including a solar powered bicycle, an electric sports car that have won quite a few raced over the year and few electric motorcycles, a Prius that was turned into an inverter and could potentially charge any other EV. I was really impressed with the sport car and the solar bike that was planning to do the climb with us. Even after seeing all these vehicles, my range anxiety didn't want to leave my thought process and I then to make things harder I was told we're about to leave for our EV climb. With about 71 miles left of charge and cold weather I was just hoping to make it to the top, from reading on the forums I knew I'd need about 40 miles of charge, but as we started the climb and my energy usage went to levels I've never seen before even at 20 MPH and by the time we were at the destination, I had 27 miles left of charge and have used 13.1kW energy for the 8 miles.

    Here are some photos from the climb:
    IMG_9735.jpg IMG_9742.jpg IMG_9828.jpg IMG_9901.jpg

    Can you guys guess what is the car left of the gray Tesla from the picture taken on top of Mt. Washington?
     
  14. skboston

    skboston Member

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    After arriving at the summit, we chatted with the other Tesla owner about our energy usage and his past experiences with climbing the top with his car and after exchanging the numbers we used for this climb, they matched on both of our cars and sitting at 13.1kW for the 8 mile stretch. This gave me a sign of hope that it wasn't just my motor hungry for electrons.
    After spending some times at the top trying not to freeze, it was time to get down and from my conversation with the other owner I was to regenerate about 27 miles back on my way down, if I was careful and not using the break through the entire way. I entered my car and noticed I now have 23 miles left, most likely due to being cold outside it was time to test the regen capabilities of the car. I was skeptical of the idea not using breaks on the way to the base, but eager to try it. On our way down I stopped to take some pictures and spend some time enjoying the view, which I hope you would enjoy:
    IMG_0013.jpg IMG_9925.jpg IMG_9981.jpg IMG_9998.jpg

    Arriving at the base, I was pleasantly surprised to see that we have regenerated a whooping 6.1kW of energy with not a single use of the breaks. Here is a screenshot of the panel after arriving at the base:
    mt_climb_return_usage.jpg

    As you can see the total distance of 15.9 miles I used 7kW and I was able to regenerate nearly half of the energy needed to climb the mountain and putting my average usage of 443Wh/m. I only regenerated 20 rated miles of range compared to the 27 I was expecting to see, but I guess the weather takes its toll.
    After arriving back at where we started, my first thought was to go and check the charger behind the Barn Museum and see if I can charge for my return trip and to my surprise it wasn't being used at the time, so I went ahead and occupied it:

    IMG_0057.jpg

    After plugging it in, I saw a charge rate of 41 miles per hour at 208V/69A. I was surprised that the voltage was lower than the 240V expected, but after getting inside the building there was an LCD display that read 11.34 and caught my attention. It turns out this is their hydroelectric plant energy generation and was most likely responsible for the energy used to charge the EV's that stop by.
     
  15. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    Great pics and story! Red license plate with no front plate!?!? Didn't want an EV one?

    /Ed
     
  16. skboston

    skboston Member

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    I quickly realized that I would need about 190 rated miles if I want to go back home without much worry about range and that was going to take about 3.5 hours of charge. The ALT Energy summit wasn't over yet, so we went back to the tent and hear from the event organizers and the EV racing team that was going to talk about their EV race cars and what made them create an EV race car as they were racing regular cars prior to that. It was very entertaining talk and soon after we went back at the cafe to check on the car (no cellular or poor coverage) and grab something to eat.
    Inside I was approached by a gentleman coming from Quebec on his electric motorcycle as opposed to the rest of them motorcycles on trailers and asked me if he could use the charger for about an hour to re-charge so he can climb the summit. It turns out that his charger was made by him and sitting at whooping 13kWh compared to the stock one at 1kW and more than most EV cars. During that time, the weather went downhill and wind increased up to 50Mph per hour up on the summit and 20Mph at the base and it started raining.
    After the motorcycle was over with his charge and our group waiting inside till the car was at around 189 rated miles range (took about 3-3.5h of charging), we decided that it would be better if we stop by the Mt Washington Hotel for some food and drinks and top off at their NEMA 14-50 chargers.
    It all started amazing going north on Rt.16, here is a shot of what I call the most efficient kW spent:
    mt_most_efficient_mile.jpg

    It was a nice down hill stretch and made me very happy considering I decided not to care about where I'm going to load some electrons into the battery and enjoy the car as there was a Super Charger near by. We arrived at the Mt. Washington Hotel 40 miles later with an 347Wh/m average usage and a quick chat with the Valet attendant he pointed me where the chargers are and told me I was welcome to use them. The hotel was very busy with a big wedding, so I was pleasantly surprised not to see any cars occupying the chargers. I plugged the UMC and went inside for some drinks and food knowing that I need about 2 hours of charge to get me back at 190 rated miles, which I thought to be enough for the remaining 144 miles of the trip.
    Fast forward 2 hours later, the weather was nasty - heavy wind and rain, I decided that I have enough energy to make it back home and decided to enjoy the car despite the rain and wind gusts and I expected to see some nice downhills where I'd be able to regenerate some energy. After about an hour of climbing on the local roads and I-93S I started to worry a bit if with my driving I'd be able to make it home as my average energy usage climbed to about 380Wh/m and my rated miles were quickly catching up to the distance we had left. I kept driving just as before and it wasn't until the last 60 miles I decided to start driving below the 70MPH speed limit in NH and try to conserve energy.
    Long story short, my entire trip on the way back felt like we were climbing through the entire 144miles and I started to think that Boston was sitting on a higher elevation than Mt Washington, which I know it's not, but the feeling was exactly that :)
    Here is what my screen looks like when I made it home:
    home.jpg

    With some 7 miles to spare and average usage of 347Wh/m in such terrible conditions in the first maybe 60 miles, it was an exciting trip with a lot of range anxiety along the way.

    I'll make a post later with some tips for other Tesla owners if they are planning to do a trip to Mt. Washington and what they could expect as far as range, charging and energy needs along the way, as I sure could have planned it better if I knew the roads better (I've climbed it before, but not in an EV).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ed, I'm using my old license plate, until my Vanity plate is ready early January (by RMV estimation). I have my front plate in the trunk, don't want to install it as it would hurt the good look the car have right now. I know it's not legal in Mass, but it's considered a secondary offense with a $35 fine that doesn't affect your driving record, so technically you can't get pulled over for just that and I'm betting on not being pulled over :)
     
  17. EdA

    EdA Model S P-2540

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    @skboston

    Can't get your car inspected with it off which I discovered on Saturday...
    Gosh, all of that extra charging and you have dual chargers.

    Too bad about the head wind on the way back. Its best form to start the trip slowly and edge when you have the range left...
     
  18. skboston

    skboston Member

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    Well, I got mine inspected with no issues as is and you can just put the plate on the window for the inspection, you must have hit the worst guy to do the inspection. They didn't even looked at mine, just hooked it up to the station and applied the sticker.
    I remember few years ago when I got a rejection sticker, because 1 of the 2 bulbs on my rear license plate wasn't operating. The guy was just plain a.. and looking for a reason to fail me. It's not like they didn't sell them on spot and just could have asked me to buy it and replace with for 30sec before giving me the sticker.

    I think for a trip of this sort, you really want to have dual chargers to take advantage of these high AMP chargers, they do help save time on charging.

    You got a point with the start slowly and then push the car, but really wanted to enjoy it in the uphill sections, where you just push the pedal and fly away.

    On an unrelated topic, when I was listening to the Racing team and its driver of how they find driving an EV compared to ICE, he said he misses the noise the most as he uses it as a reference to the speed he's traveling, it made us all laugh a lot :) That same driver did a 7min 30sec run to the top of the summit, which using basic math is over 60Mph average speed on that road.
     
  19. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    I think that driver was Tim O'Neil? He is a very good rally driver, and runs a rally school west of Mt Washington in Dalton, NH:
    Team ONeil | Welcome to Team O'Neil
     
  20. karmamule

    karmamule Member

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    Thanks for all the details around your trip @skboston, it was enjoyable to read, the pics of the event were fun, and the ones you took on the way back down are beautiful!
     

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