2014 P85D Owners... hindsight? regrets?

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Absolutely adore my P85D. No regrets at all. Was happy to get it in December in the shortly-retired-after Green.

Going to get the LTE and the Ludicrous upgrades to make the car even better. The hp numbers game doesn't mean anything to me. Autopilot will come when it's truly ready and I'm in no hurry.

 

[bhzmark]

only regret is that instead of buying the car that I would want personally for a long time (the best performing model at the time), my first S would be the car that I would likely hand down in a year or two (or less depending) to my SO anticipating that we wld go all EV eventually. Then I would buy myself the latest (90D with perhaps updated sensor package if that's still to come) when I passed down the first S -- probably later this year or early next. Then I wouldn't have to pass down a P85D which has lots of features and costs that wouldn't be needed in the second S. If instead I bought the cheaper S first, then later passed it down and got the P model later as my longer term keeper, my total outlay for 2 S's would be less, and I would have the latest P without having had to pay for a P to only pass it down (or lose money selling/trading it) in a year or so.

Also I'm not sure the Next Gen seats are all that better. certainly not as comfortable as other Japanese luxury and German seats. I haven't really compared much to the base seats.

And I wish it were smaller.

But the convenience and silence of EV means I will never buy an ICE again.
The ability to instantly put my car at any forward point on the road, in front of any other car on the road, has spoiled me and I will always need P type performance.

 

[McMuggets]

only regret is that instead of buying the car that I would want personally for a long time (the best performing model at the time), my first S would be the car that I would likely hand down in a year or two (or less depending) to my SO anticipating that we wld go all EV eventually. Then I would buy myself the latest (90D with perhaps updated sensor package if that's still to come) when I passed down the first S -- probably later this year or early next. Then I wouldn't have to pass down a P85D which has lots of features and costs that wouldn't be needed in the second S. If instead I bought the cheaper S first, then later passed it down and got the P model later as my longer term keeper, my total outlay for 2 S's would be less, and I would have the latest P without having had to pay for a P to only pass it down (or lose money selling/trading it) in a year or so.

Also I'm not sure the Next Gen seats are all that better. certainly not as comfortable as other Japanese luxury and German seats. I haven't really compared much to the base seats.

And I wish it were smaller.

But the convenience and silence of EV means I will never buy an ICE again.
The ability to instantly put my car at any forward point on the road, in front of any other car on the road, has spoiled me and I will always need P type performance.

I really have to agree on your last point. Can't imagine buying an ICE again unless it is for collection value/hobbyist value. Not after experiencing the Tesla.

 

[wk057]

Seems many didn't get the "2014 P85D Owner" part of the memo here...

 

[McMuggets]

Seems many didn't get the "2014 P85D Owner" part of the memo here...

Heh sorry, I suppose I posted here because I deposited in 2014, but you are right I have a 2015 P85D. Won't post again in your thread.

 

[tezzla]

I completely regret trading in my less than 1 year old P85 for the P85D. I bought the car for the "autopilot", which I still don't have 10 months after the announcement.

 

[Brett]

Delivered 12/23/2014 after trading in my 2013 S85. No regrets. Still patiently waiting for AutoPilot, I enjoy TACC every day. The car has been flawless for me. Zero issues. Really, I honestly have no complaints or unfulfilled expectations.

Also, I was happy to get the front/rear NG seats installed in May after patiently waiting.

 

[sorka]

Horsepower ratings are always overstated by manufacturers. No car puts anywhere close to its rated HP down to the wheels. They don't account for drivetrain losses (normally downstream in an ICE, upstream as we've learned with an EV) and assume ideal conditions (sea level at 50F in an ICE, full charge in an EV), so this was to be expected.

Manufacturers always state horsepower at the motor shaft, not the wheels, so they are taking into account drivetrain loss and they're not stating power at the wheels. Nobody was expecting a P85D to put down 691 hp to the wheels....ever. I think they were expecting it put out 691 hp at the motor shafts which it doesn't as it only puts out 555 hp at the battery before going into the inverter and getting turned into kinetic energy.

The only recent case I know of where a manufacturer overstated the horsepower was Mazda with their RX8. They got sued in a well publicized class action for overstating by a mere 10 hp and were forced to buy back the RX8.

 

[RobinF]

I had a P85 on order when the D was announced and upgraded which pushed the build date out to Christmas. I do not regret that in the least. I've had a couple P85's to drive when the beast has been at the SC, and there's no comparing for low end torque and neck snapping acceleration. I don't care if it's not quite 691HP, it's the sensation that matters. It's a technology tour de force which other car companies can't touch. And soon(ish) I will be blessed with Ludicrous mode.
I have been disappointed with how long it has taken first to get the NG seats I ordered (5 months) and secondly the delay in AutoPilot (at least 6 months late) but that applies to all cars not just the D.

 

[wk057]

Heh sorry, I suppose I posted here because I deposited in 2014, but you are right I have a 2015 P85D. Won't post again in your thread.

It wasn't just directed at you, and no offense intended. I specifically asked for 2014 P85D owners because taking delivery in 2014 would mean that it was an early order prior to Tesla changing the numbers on the website, and a December 2014 owner would have taken more of a depreciation hit vs a Jan 2015 or newer owner because of that one month difference causing the year to be lower in the eyes of the market.

 

[bhzmark]

It wasn't just directed at you, and no offense intended. I specifically asked for 2014 P85D owners because taking delivery in 2014 would mean that it was an early order prior to Tesla changing the numbers on the website, and a December 2014 owner would have taken more of a depreciation hit vs a Jan 2015 or newer owner because of that one month difference causing the year to be lower in the eyes of the market.

I didn't notice, or think it very relevant, the difference between 2014 and 2015 model years.

I think a bigger difference is between TACC and pre-TACC. Our 2014 P85Ds are TACC. that matters more than being 2014.

Perhaps property tax and insurance is lower for being 2014 instead of 2015.

when it comes time to sell the main thing we will be selling is a P85D with TACC with x miles in y condition (2014 vs 2015 shld be irrelevant to buyers since there is no actual difference).

(did we agree that the plus suspension bits were phased out even for P85Ds? and thus P85Ds in later 2015 were detuned a bit? So we also have the better suspension, and most us, probably the NG seats front and rear.

 

[wk057]

I didn't notice, or think it very relevant, the difference between 2014 and 2015 model years.

I think a bigger difference is between TACC and pre-TACC. Our 2014 P85Ds are TACC. that matters more than being 2014.

Perhaps property tax and insurance is lower for being 2014 instead of 2015.

when it comes time to sell the main thing we will be selling is a P85D with TACC with x miles in y condition (2014 vs 2015 shld be irrelevant to buyers since there is no actual difference).

(did we agree that the plus suspension bits were phased out even for P85Ds? and thus P85Ds in later 2015 were detuned a bit? So we also have the better suspension, and most us, probably the NG seats front and rear.

It's definitely relevant. Ask any prospective buyer who doesn't know how Tesla's updates and such work which vehicle is more valuable: a 2014 with 10,000 miles or a 2015 with 10,000 miles? Pretty sure overwhelmingly you're going to be wrong and the answer will be 2015.

How can you say resale value is going to be the same but at the same time say personal property tax and insurance will be lower?

And no, I don't agree on the suspension issue. I would have rather have had the option for the slightly more efficient standard setup, personally.

I actually forgot about the next gen seats issue. I'll add that to my first post.

- - - Updated - - -

But nobody ever said the P85D would have better range than the P85. Elon said that with Model S a two motor configuration was in more efficient on a like for like basis than a single motor configuration. But the P85 and P85D are not equivalent in power or performance - the P85D is more efficient than an equivalent RWD model that could do 0-60 in 3.1s would be, if it existed. The 85D and S85 are equivalent, and duly the 85D has a higher range than its RWD variant. The 70 is expected to have a lower range than the 70D for the same reason.

Not sure where you get this information from. The website, at the time I ordered, specifically stated more miles of range for the P85D vs the P85/85.

Then also if you watch the Tesla D Event where Elon spoke about dual motor there was no "like for like basis" mentioned at all. The man, standing in front of a P85D chassis, said "everything about the car improves with dual motor" and that they've been able to "increase efficiency."

I specifically had a conversation with Tesla on how the P85D would get more range and how that would help with regard to the ~210 mile hops between some superchargers that I make and how the added range/efficiency would make this just that much easier.

- - - Updated - - -

I believe wk057 is referring to the website who clearly stated an increase in range before the EPA-numbers came in to effect. The blog from JB Straubel also showed similar effects in the graph there if I remember correctly.

epa-numbers still show higher range on highway as compared to S85/P85(+) doesnt it?

The EPA-based rated miles on the P85D show 253 miles vs 265 for my wife's P85. On the highway her's is still more efficient (we did the same 300 mile round trip drive a couple of weeks ago with both cars and her car was easily 5+% more efficient).

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

The EPA-based rated miles on the P85D show 253 miles vs 265 for my wife's P85. On the highway her's is still more efficient (we did the same 300 mile round trip drive a couple of weeks ago with both cars and her car was easily 5+% more efficient).

The P85D is much less efficient for sure. I came from an S60 so, the difference was even more stark for me.

@wk057, have you used Range Mode=ON and Sport mode for these road trips? Last month, I did a roadtrip from the Bay Area to LA and San Diego and had those settings in one direction and Range Mode=OFF and Insane mode the other way; I recall a roughly-15 Wh/mile difference (although I'll admit to not taking copious notes).

 

[wk057]

The P85D is much less efficient for sure. I came from an S60 so, the difference was even more stark for me.

@wk057, have you used Range Mode=ON and Sport mode for these road trips? Last month, I did a roadtrip from the Bay Area to LA and San Diego and had those settings in one direction and Range Mode=OFF and Insane mode the other way; I recall a roughly-15 Wh/mile difference (although I'll admit to not taking copious notes).

Yeah for sure. I came from the P85 in which I had been able to achieve very good efficiency with minimal effort.

In the P85D in range mode and sport mode I can't even come close to the P85's efficiency on long trips. The best I've been able to do to date over any real distance, and very recently, in perfect conditions (60F, sunny, minimal HVAC) was 228.9 miles @ 330 Wh/mi. And that was trying. Speeds kept below 70 MPH (mostly cruise at 65), sport mode, range mode. For comparison I did the same trip multiple times in the P85 in similar conditions with the cruise set to 75-78 the majority of the way previously at 283 Wh/mi with my worst ever being 334 Wh/mi (and I was um... 'playful' with a Corvette for part of that trip...)

So yeah... definitely not more efficient in any mode.

 

[patrick42h]

If there is one thing I have gleaned from all of this, it is to not believe Tesla when it promises something amazing by a given date. It's probably going to be months or years late and be more expensive than promised.

 

[spentan]

I'm a 2014 P85D owner (took delivery Dec31)

I had actually sold my P85 before the D announcement (made 8k on the CPO price)

I then had a 2015 S550 from October - December. There were a few things I liked but was pining for my tesla back. So I ordered a P85D.

TACC is literally the best feature. Looking forward to autopilot and the ludicrous mode upgrade but ultimately very happy. No regrets.

Looking forward to getting an X tho. Dunno if I'd buy a P90X (need the exercise hoho). Will prob get the X90D

 

[Eclectic]

For those of us who have 2014 P85Ds, ordered in October... given everything we know today... any regrets? Would you still have ordered/traded/etc? Was it worth it?

For some bullet points, What we know now that we didn't in October:

• P85D doesn't actually have 691 HP (almost 500 HP in reality)
  • $5000/$10000 option might make this actually possible "soon" (Ludicrous mode/P90D)
• We still don't have autopilot (several months my ***)
• P85D is still *not* more efficient than it's single motor counterparts. (Originally claimed +20 miles vs P85, after multiple updates at best almost as efficient and dash shows -12 miles vs P85)
• Many months delays on next-gen seat installs
• etc

Personally, knowing even a couple of the above and I'd still be driving my P21636 P85.

Just curious how others who took delivery of a P85D in December feel now. I know there are a lot of us here.

I have no regrets. What I have is a bad taste in my mouth. I like my P85D more than I liked my P85. It's a better car. But there was, as you point out, a lot promised, both explicitly and implicitly, and much not delivered. That, to me, changed the value equation. Many of us placed orders based on what was promised, so even though the car is quite impressive, it doesn't deliver the value I expected (and I'm talking the value of the new/improved features in relation to the out of pocket difference between what I got for my P85 and what I paid for the P85D).

This will likely be my last Tesla. I'm certainly not going to sue for fraud...I'm a big boy and know all about taking unwritten and somewhat vague promises with a grain of salt. No regrets, just some lessons learned. I'll enjoy driving the P85D until its replacement comes along.

 

[spentan]

I have no regrets. What I have is a bad taste in my mouth. I like my P85D more than I liked my P85. It's a better car. But there was, as you point out, a lot promised, both explicitly and implicitly, and much not delivered. That, to me, changed the value equation. Many of us placed orders based on what was promised, so even though the car is quite impressive, it doesn't deliver the value I expected (and I'm talking the value of the new/improved features in relation to the out of pocket difference between what I got for my P85 and what I paid for the P85D).

This will likely be my last Tesla. I'm certainly not going to sue for fraud...I'm a big boy and know all about taking unwritten and somewhat vague promises with a grain of salt. No regrets, just some lessons learned. I'll enjoy driving the P85D until its replacement comes along.

I definitely learnt that until they release the features, take all of it with a pinch of salt. And don't buy until the features are available (if that is important to you)

With regards to your comment about it being your last tesla, do you have an alternative in mind?

Considering I prefer my tesla to my 2015 S550. I don't know if there is any other car id prefer (despite the drawbacks)

 

[Eclectic]

I definitely learnt that until they release the features, take all of it with a pinch of salt. And don't buy until the features are available (if that is important to you)

With regards to your comment about it being your last tesla, do you have an alternative in mind?

Considering I prefer my tesla to my 2015 S550. I don't know if there is any other car id prefer (despite the drawbacks)

I'd probably end up with an Audi, either the S7 or RS7. One possibility is the Cadillac CTS-V. The reviews have me hooked, but I've always avoided GM products and the test drive would have to really knock my socks off.

 

[wk057]

I've actually been considering a custom long range EV that utilizes salvage Model S battery modules, and maybe parts of the power train, personally. Built around another vehicle that has all of the interior trim type things I would want like an Audi or Cadillac. Once the donor car was found for the body (basically something that is good all around minus the gasoline engine components) the rest isn't actually all that hard, just a lot of work.

I think it would be really fun to get a car that has all of the features I want (autopilot type stuff) and then try to do all of the work to make it compatible with an EV conversion. Would probably be a more enjoyable project, even if it took longer, than waiting indefinitely on Tesla to deliver.

So, as of right now I'm also pretty sure my next vehicle is not going to be a Tesla.

I think right now the main advantage Tesla has in the EV market is the supercharger network. I'd certainly be happy to pay them to utilize that with a custom EV if they allowed it, but not holding my breath. So eventually I'll likely end up with an EV for short to medium length drives and a luxury ICE for long trips... at least until Tesla gets their act together or someone comes out with an EV worth buying that has access to a fast charging infrastructure.