2014 P85D Owners... hindsight? regrets?

[Hookmaker]

I'm a new owner (in that I never owned a Model S before--December 2014 delivery) who is probably not quite as bothered by these things as wk057, but is also not quite as satisfied as fellow new owner MarcG. I expect the two reasons I'm not bothered quite as much as wk057 is are, the already mentioned fact that I was not a previous Model S owner, and also the fact that I never owned a performance car like the P85D before, so really had no idea what to expect. I'm one of the people that was attracted by the tech more than by the car, as I've never been a car person. And were it not for what I've been reading here, I'd have no idea that I should be upset about the missing HP, the efficiency, etc.

On the other hand, I have a great deal of experience in customer service, I can recognize excellent and less than excellent customer service when I'm getting it, and I strongly believe one should get what they pay for. Would I know that I hadn't received what I paid for without TMC? Absolutely not. But the fact of the matter is that I do, and it most definitely does bother me.

There are people who, if walking out of a store, realizing they've been short-changed a dollar, would just keep walking, figuring it's only a dollar, and not worth taking the time to go back for. That's not me. I'd turn around and go back. And it's only a little bit about the money. It's a lot about the principle. I can't stand feeling I've been ripped off--even a little bit, and even if it was an honest mistake. I want things made right.

That's where I'm coming from on a lot of this stuff.

+1, Head on nail for me...;-)

 

[RAW84]

That's way way too high for summer driving. Have you checked your alignment? Do you have the 19" or 21" wheels. It makes a big difference and the EPA test was only done for the 19" standard wheels.

I have 21" for summer, 19" for snow. I should have also pointed out that the majority of my driving is city driving, that's probably the biggest reason my Wh/mi is higher than yours.

I don't mind that I'm not seeing the EPA numbers, I've never owned an ICE that matched those numbers. My gripe was with the general notion that I'd be getting a more efficient car due to AWD which turns out to not be the case.

 

[sorka]

I have 21" for summer, 19" for snow. I should have also pointed out that the majority of my driving is city driving, that's probably the biggest reason my Wh/mi is higher than yours.

I don't mind that I'm not seeing the EPA numbers, I've never owned an ICE that matched those numbers. My gripe was with the general notion that I'd be getting a more efficient car due to AWD which turns out to not be the case.

Hmm. My city driving usage is actually lower by a fair amount over my freeway driving. I see an average of 20 wh / mile less when I'm doing stop and go driving than when I'm driving 70 mph on the freeway.

My bet is it's either the wide tires or your alignment. Alignment being off even a little will have a pretty big impact. Have you had that checked?

 

[RAW84]

Hmm. My city driving usage is actually lower by a fair amount over my freeway driving. I see an average of 20 wh / mile less when I'm doing stop and go driving than when I'm driving 70 mph on the freeway.

My bet is it's either the wide tires or your alignment. Alignment being off even a little will have a pretty big impact. Have you had that checked?

My city driving is definitely higher. Can only be so efficient when it takes 30 minutes to go 5 miles.

 

[ken830]

No regrets. Actually I am seriously impressed with the Model S. The P85D has had way less disappointments than my last two BMWs and that does not count the 2001 M3 whose engine had "catastrophic engine failure" (BMW wording). That caused me to not by a BMW for 12 years.

Ah... The infamous E46 catastrophic engine failure? The one where BMW blamed owners for "abusing" and over-revving?

 

[RobinF]

My city driving is definitely higher. Can only be so efficient when it takes 30 minutes to go 5 miles.

Indeed stop and go driving without much sustained speed is going to hamper efficiency simply because a greater fraction of those miles are spent in acceleration. Add to that the energy burden of the AC (energy expenditure not yielding distance traveled will always hurt the Wh/mile figure). Typically I drive off the highway and not far at that; in Houston the AC is always on full; and I have an addiction to the monster acceleration of the P85D, so you don't what to know what my Wh/mile is. :wink:

 

[mkspeedr]

I am sure I have bought a dozen vehicles with way worse issues than the minor issues of the model S - vehicles with serious regret issues. I had a 1997 GSXR750 - the last VIN in recall notice was my bike. I got it the same week my piston hit the valve (yes the recall was for clearance issues). That bike was a complete regret.

I love the model S - it is my favorite vehicle.

Ah... The infamous E46 catastrophic engine failure? The one where BMW blamed owners for "abusing" and over-revving?

 

[joefee]

If there is one thing I have gleaned from all of this, it is to not believe Tesla when it promises something amazing by a given date. It's probably going to be months or years late and be more expensive than promised.

Model S - late & much more than 60K; Model X late; Every event I've attended (5-6): late; Conference calls/presser calls: late. We old timers refer to this as "Tesla Time."

I've tested the P85D and it is a better car than my Sig P85 but I'm keeping Tessie for now! If you can get a low mileage P85 PO, I would go for that in a heart beat.

 

[dsm363]

Would the P85 with an extra 300 lbs in the frunk be more efficient than the P85D? That's what you'd have to do to find out which is more efficient at an equivalent weight.

 

[Vitold]

snip

 

[NOLA_Mike]

For those of us who have 2014 P85Ds, ordered in October... given everything we know today... any regrets? Would you still have ordered/traded/etc? Was it worth it?

Personally, knowing even a couple of the above and I'd still be driving my P21636 P85.

Just curious how others who took delivery of a P85D in December feel now. I know there are a lot of us here.

I think I generally feel like you do. The experience of purchasing, delivery, servicing and ownership of my P85+ in June 2013 was very different than that of taking delivery of the P85D in December of 2014. Not only do we not have the same (or advertised better) range now, remember what the range was before "torque sleep" - I almost didn't make it home from my Houston delivery in the new P85D due to the range being so much lower than advertised.

The bloom is definitely wilting and getting ready to fall off the Tesla rose for me. It's a combination of everything - no service center closer than 365 miles and now Tesla is threatening to charge me $3 a mile to come fix it, Tesla's continuing inability to timely deliver on the promises its over zealous CEO constantly asserts, along with everything you mentioned in your original post. Top that off with the email I received today accusing me of abusing my "local superchargers" when I don't even have a "local supercharger".

Mike

 

[wk057]

I think I generally feel like you do. The experience of purchasing, delivery, servicing and ownership of my P85+ in June 2013 was very different than that of taking delivery of the P85D in December of 2014. Not only do we not have the same (or advertised better) range now, remember what the range was before "torque sleep" - I almost didn't make it home from my Houston delivery in the new P85D due to the range being so much lower than advertised.

The bloom is definitely wilting and getting ready to fall off the Tesla rose for me. It's a combination of everything - no service center closer than 365 miles and now Tesla is threatening to charge me $3 a mile to come fix it, Tesla's continuing inability to timely deliver on the promises its over zealous CEO constantly asserts, along with everything you mentioned in your original post. Top that off with the email I received today accusing me of abusing my "local superchargers" when I don't even have a "local supercharger".

Mike

Yeah, my pre-torque sleep drive from NJ->NC was bothersome. I drove much much more slowly than I normally would have, increasing my total trip time by over 3 hours due to range charges and slower speeds. I didn't take the P85D out of range of my place in NC until after torque sleep, then a bug in the update left me on the side of the road for a bit... so, yeah.

 

[George Parrott]

I "ordered" in that first October rush, but scheduled my delivery for FEBRUARY, since I wanted the tax credit for this year not 2014 and I wanted a 2015 VIN/registration. I was able to get the lighter interior and 19" tire/wheel package by going with the later delivery and my car was delivered with EVERYTHING already installed (next gen seats).

And I kept total power draw records on my previous 2013 S85 which was sitting at 332 watts/mile for that car's 24,500 miles. For 14,900 miles now on my P85D I am seeing a cumulative power draw of 301 watts/mile...ABOUT 10% MORE EFFICIENT with the sleep mode operating on my frequent freeway driving. I have taken the P85D three (3X) times to the local drag racing strips (Best 11.63 seconds at 115.21 mph) and done "demo launches for the naive" at least an average of 4 times a week since delivery....and still see 10% better operating efficiency!!!!!!

I am eager to experience the promised additional tech upgrades, though I think the "lane warning display" is so poor/bad graphically that it should be a comedy show joke line. I am also first or second in line at the Rocklin SC for the ludicrous upgrade. NOW that is going to be even more amazing to have a "sub 11 second, 5000 pound sedan." The 21st Century is HERE, and it might not be perfect, but it sure as hell is beyond what ANY of us could have anticipated even as late as 2000.

- - - Updated - - -

Your comment makes me feel better about the Supercharger abuse letter I got. I do use a Supercharger about 35 miles from my home, but only because I make regional trips to that side of the area and then end up right near the Supercharger. I have the Tesla HPWC in my garage and solar on my roof, so I do Most of my charging at my home. Anyway, IF YOU got the "abuse"letter it suggests it might have been a mass mailing and not a data based mailing?

 

[Pollux]

I'm a happy P85+ owner, recipient of great service experiences from the Watertown, MA, Service Center, generally amazed by the product and the company. I'm also a big fan of startups and understand a fair amount about the pain that comes at different parts of the startup lifecycle. For instance, based on things I've heard from people inside Tesla as well as observations from folks outside, it seems like they are at the point of the growth phase where they have typical challenges, such as hiring bozos. It's hard to keep up the quality of the hiring, and hard to bring people into the culture of the company, when the company hits a certain point in its headcount, customer base, revenues, etc. Sadly, it seems that the bozo factor is increasing within Tesla.

But this thread points out to me what has been constant for Tesla since I began watching them in June, 2013: poor setting of expectations. Without stopping to count, it seems like a very large percentage of the complaints in this thread amount to crappy communications on the part of Tesla. It pains me to see features announced with great fanfare and fairly explicit promises of delivery "soon", only to remain unavailable for long periods of time. One reason I haven't upgraded to a P85D yet is because I'm trying to force myself to only upgrade every 3 years (counting the days until next August!!). But another is because I looked at the promises around Autopilot last October and thought to myself, gee, they're going to discover they need more sensors, and the software is going to be late and buggy, they are over-promising... again.

I simply don't understand why they persist in this self-defeating behavior, especially as their customer base grows beyond the most tolerant early adopters and well into a population of early-ish adopters who are correspondingly somewhat less forgiving-ish. If they continue to set expectations so poorly, one day they will wind up with an actual lawsuit with potential class-action status. Someone who paid for Autopilot could rightly argue that they spent money for value that wasn't received. If you own the car for 4 years, and Autopilot is only fully functional for 3 of them, why should you pay full price for Autopilot?

I love this company even more than I love the vehicle. The automobile, as amazing as it is, wouldn't exist without the company. I want the company to thrive, not just survive. But to do that, they are going to have to fix some long-standing behavioral issues.

Alan

 

[lolachampcar]

I'm in the camp of ordering on announcement but waiting till January to take delivery. I suspected there would be initial issues combined with a need to make end of Q numbers so I opt'd for a January build. I also wanted a 2015 ViN as I have still yet to subscribe to the "model year does not matter" mantra.

Knowing what I know now, I would not have done anything different.
- I knew then as I know now that performance is limited by the power that can be extracted from the battery. I also knew then that BeVs can not come close to the higher speed performance of ICE; the energy density is just too great with ICE and our willingness to be terribly wasteful with gas is, likewise, too great.
- Tesla promised 3.3 second 0-60 and delivered 3.2 second performance. They have subsequently lowered that to 3.1 seconds. In short, they delivered what they told me they would deliver.
- In the ICE world, $5K for a reduction in 0-60 from 3.1 to 2.7 combined with a 1/4 mile time reduction from 11.7 to 10.9 seconds is a bargain. Combine that with the fact that the upgrade is coming from the OEM with full warranty and I consider it very good value.
- Lastly, I got front and rear seats on initial delivery along with the proper suspension for the car :O

 

[ArtInCT]

I love this company even more than I love the vehicle. The automobile, as amazing as it is, wouldn't exist without the company. I want the company to thrive, not just survive. But to do that, they are going to have to fix some long-standing behavioral issues.

Alan

Well said Alan. I too want Tesla to thrive and all future auto models to be the best they can be. I remember when I started following Tesla, about 15 months ago, reading here on TMC an account by a Model S owner who stated that in his opinion, Communications (both poor and lack of detail) was Tesla's weak suit. Since that time, we have a "new" Executive VP of Communications at Tesla... It appears he has not defined a game plan or if he has he is not executing on All AMPS... (I was going to say cylinders but that would just be wrong...:wink

Lastly, even though I am not a P85D owner, many P85D owners will recognize that I have lusted, dreamed, talked, typed and breathed the P85D with them all on the many various threads over the last 8 or 9 months. Now I am in the P90DL camp... which appears to be a lonely isle... when compared to the scramble for the P85D back in October 2014. I recall many of the hiccups with the roll-out:

• where are my Next Gen seats?
• Sudden loss of power, recall MarcG's episode enroute in the mountains?? Also did not someone return two his & hers P85D's
• to torque sleep or not, is it in this download & how can you tell if it is doing it? (recall WK057's testing with his girlfriend?),
• air noise and cold air from quarter window,
• did I get a heated steering wheel?,
• lack of expected range efficiency, which led to torque sleep eventually,
• Oh the Frunk is too small...

But really... those are nits which apparently have been somewhat taken care of over time.

Personally, I do not want ANY autopilot features as I consider myself a car driver. So lateness on that set of features is hoo hmm for me. I will not be buying it.
After all the car does not have redundant sensors to depend upon and after having broken 5 ribs and a shoulder at Lyme Rock Park in a racing crash, I am the last person to relinquish control of my car to a non-redundant beta implementation. Nuff-said.

 

[lolachampcar]

Ut Oh
LimeRock is the wrong track to run out of talent on

 

[ArtInCT]

Ut Oh
LimeRock is the wrong track to run out of talent on

Yah. Got clipped on the inside rear wheel at the end of the straightaway and broke loose sideways and another car slammed into my side. That was expensive and painful.

 

[Six]

Owned a P85+ bought aP85D at launch, it was delivered in Dec. 2014. I own one of the best cars in the world. I was happy before, happy now, would order again.

Not judging others since I sincerely would like everyone to be as happy with their car as I am with mine. I only wish all well. And I recognize the issues here really bother other owners. However, the problems described in this thread seem textbook examples of so called "first world problems".

 

[Blu Zap]

I am very fortunate. I ordered and confirmed a P85+ in August 2014. Delivery 9/30/14. That was the first week they began installing AutoPilot hardware on ALL model S'. So a rare model. 2wd + suspension, staggered tires and all current AutoPilot features. This was Tesla's fastest Model S for a week or so before the P85D was launched. I probably would have gotten a D if it was available just 'cuz. But I am very happy with the +. Very fast, all AutoPilot functions and great range. I'm okay with not getting a D. The + suspension is incredible. The AutoPilot hardware would have been a real issue for me if I had not gotten that capability. Just lucky.