2014 Panamera S E-Hybrid vs Model S

[rage_777]

Tesla: A New Generation Of Competing Plug-In Luxury Hybrids Will Shrink The Niche Of The Model S - Seeking Alpha

Not sure how he says this:

Skeptics of Tesla's Model S sedan (myself included) acknowledge that it's a great driving car with a minimal carbon footprint (assuming it isn't being recharged by a coal-fired power plant) but claim that for the vast majority of people spending $80,000+ on a car, those positive points plus $1,500 or so of annual fuel savings will be outweighed by the car's inherent range limitations

Then says this:

Equally significant for the environmentally conscious is that as the average American automobile commute is 12.6 miles to and from work, this new Panamera will provide many of its "green oriented" buyers the opportunity to burn no more than a few ounces of gasoline each day, while the car's 53 mpg will allow those same folks to minimize their carbon footprint on longer trips.

If the average commute is 12.6 miles, then what range limitations is he talking about?

 

[Electric700]

Tesla: A New Generation Of Competing Plug-In Luxury Hybrids Will Shrink The Niche Of The Model S - Seeking Alpha

Not sure how he says this:


Then says this:


If the average commute is 12.6 miles, then what range limitations is he talking about?

It looks like the author is not aware of the growing Tesla Supercharger network that will soon allow cross-country trips in a Model S.

 

[ckessel]

The author makes the same mistake nearly every single other author makes; assuming the Model S market is primarily the "environmental" crowd.

 

[Bipo]

But the Panamera is really far from getting full power while in electric mode...

 

[scott2613]

I've spent my life working on and enjoying high performance cars and airplanes. His is a poorly informed opinion. A pure electric vehicle, car, motorcycle, etc. is something that needs to be fully experienced to be understood. The freedom from gas stations, the simplicity and lack of maintenance, the ability to instantly update and change, the shortened supply chain made possible by eliminating the dealer, the differentiation from everything else are just some of the things he does not take into account. Financial people have become a form of waste to business. Many of them have forgotten that their job is critically important in the capitalist system. It is to serve industry and labor. Investing in something should be about more than buying low and selling high. The future of Tesla will not be impacted much by overly complex, old fashioned technology bandaged up and repackaged. If that was their biggest challenge they would have it easy.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Yes, I read that article and I think his fundamental view is wrong. It's just a llug-in hybrid. I can see it selling to people who want a Porsche but benefit from the practicality of EV at low speed, but overall it's just not going to appeal to EV buyers. EV buyers are going for the most EV that works. Volt, Leaf, S, eveything else is a further compromise from there.

 

[HHHH]

I've spent my life working on and enjoying high performance cars and airplanes. His is a poorly informed opinion. A pure electric vehicle, car, motorcycle, etc. is something that needs to be fully experienced to be understood. The freedom from gas stations, the simplicity and lack of maintenance, the ability to instantly update and change, the shortened supply chain made possible by eliminating the dealer, the differentiation from everything else are just some of the things he does not take into account. Financial people have become a form of waste to business. Many of them have forgotten that their job is critically important in the capitalist system. It is to serve industry and labor. Investing in something should be about more than buying low and selling high. The future of Tesla will not be impacted much by overly complex, old fashioned technology bandaged up and repackaged. If that was their biggest challenge they would have it easy.

THIS.

 

[richkae]

His article is full of subtle underhanded slights against Tesla.
There are double quotes around "standard" and "Performance" when talking about the Tesla, but none like that talking about the Porsche.
The Porsche performance numbers are listed as facts, but the Tesla ones are "Tesla claims".

 

[Palpatine]

His article is full of subtle underhanded slights against Tesla.
There are double quotes around "standard" and "Performance" when talking about the Tesla, but none like that talking about the Porsche.
The Porsche performance numbers are listed as facts, but the Tesla ones are "Tesla claims".

Rich,
Did you see the testing that showed the 60 kwh 0-60 numbers being actually faster than the official Tesla quoted numbers.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/is-tesla-under-selling-its-cars-performance.html/?a=viewall

While Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) has been accused of many things, under-selling was never one of them. Yet a recent story in Drag Times claims the luxury electric car maker is underestimating its 0-60 potential. The speed demons on the Drag Times staff recently ran their own tests with a Model S 60 kWh vehicle, bringing in results that might make Elon Musk and company revise their promotional materials.

Tesla has several versions of the Model S. Drag Times used the base model, a car with a 60 kWh battery that Tesla says produces 302 hp with 317 ft-lbs. of torque. The company claims the car goes 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, yet the Drag Times team ran three straight tests in which the S 60 went 0-60 in 5.1 seconds. Their team tested their car (with no performance package installed) with a full battery charge. It went 0-100 in 12.8 seconds, which also beat Tesla’s time.

 

[richkae]

Rich,
Did you see the testing that showed the 60 kwh 0-60 numbers being actually faster than the official Tesla quoted numbers.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/is-tesla-under-selling-its-cars-performance.html/?a=viewall

I did, but the author makes no reference to that discrepancy. His characterization without any qualifiers implies doubt about the Tesla while the Porsche ones are facts ( which is retarded and backwards because the Porsche hasn't yet been sold ).

 

[IceWendigo]

You are having a laugh.


The Porsche is not even inthe same ball park, it's still wasting space on an Internal Compbustion Engine with fuel tanks filters pumps tubes exhaust, you still have to drive to the gas station, and do maintenance on the engine.


The Telsa doesnt waste space on an engine with numerous moving parts, you have clean cargo space instead.


Heres a few quotes about Porsche
"The service guy quotes me $315...for an oil change"
"Its a total ripoff"
"315 is insane, i know what dealer u went to.. they are always HIGH.."
"Find a new dealer...most are charging around $200"
Its not really representative, but nonetheless gives a "flavor" of the joys of the Dealership business model

The "wire" that feeds your Tesla with electricity, or a TV wire, requires less maintenance than an Internal Combustion Engine, and no trip to the dealer just for that.
(My bet is that the Porsche resale value might also not be a shining comparison next to the Model S.)


Imo, the "Non all-electric" Porsche is not a "serious" competitor

 

[lolachampcar]

TMC and TM forums are my first exposure to SA. I really hope these clowns do not get paid to write this stuff.

 

[meloccom]

Here's your answer.
Quote: Meanwhile, as Tesla's current market cap of nearly $14 billion pretty much assumes that there will never be any real competition ever for the company while BMW, Mercedes and Audi all plan to introduce plug-in hybrid versions of their own largest sedans, I'm willing to sit with my short position and see how this all plays out.
The guy is a short on Tesla and is "hoping" competition will pull down the share price of TSLA.
Good luck mate!

 

[Seven7]

I looked into the Porsche and it really just didn't impress, to much of a compromise. I don't want to say anything negative about hybrid cars, so I'll stop here.

 

[artsci]

Many of the articles in SA are close to being laughable. This is one of them. Most are written by rank amateurs who don't have a clue about what objectivity means. And much of the analysis is sophomoric, as this is.

 

[sub]

Many of the articles in SA are close to being laughable. This is one of them. Most are written by rank amateurs who don't have a clue about what objectivity means. And much of the analysis is sophomoric, as this is.

Couldn't agree more. Why is it they never have anything new to say? It seems to be the same article rewritten over and over again. I'm assuming the benefit or reason for it is to generate page views. I can't see anyone on the fence being swayed for very long.

 

[richkae]

Infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters and infinite time will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

The internet contains all the necessary monkeys and typewriters, but they've been at it for only a few years.
Part of the challenge of the 21st century is figuring out who the monkeys are.

 

[cfOH]

He's not writing for car people, he's writing for investors, specifically people he hope will sell their TSLA shares (or buy competitors') and drive the price down so that his short position doesn't bankrupt him.

 

[AC1K]

Okay, lets break down the details shall we...?

$100K for the Panamera vs $100K for the Tesla Performance 85kWh
416HP (gas power) vs 416 (electric power) = Tesla Wins
435 Torque vs 443 Torque = Tesla Wins
8 speed slush box (not even a dual clutch) vs Direct drive instant response = Tesla Wins
Transmission fluid changes vs none = Tesla Wins
7 quarts of oil required (synthetic only) vs none = Tesla Wins
driving a brick wall around (radiator that requires flush maintenance) vs none = Tesla Wins
0-60 in 5.1s (motor trend tested) vs 0-60 in 3.9 (motor trend tested) = Tesla Wins
Quarter Mile 13.8s (MT tested) vs 12.3 (MT Tested) = Tesla Wins
18in Wheels vs 21in wheels = Tesla Wins
24 Miles vs 200 Miles + = Tesla Wins
Glass roof vs Giant glass roof = Tesla Wins
cD 0.29 vs cD 0.24 = Tesla Wins
Center of gravity = Tesla Wins
lame 4.8" LCD vs 17" LCD = Tesla Wins
Premium fuel vs None = Tesla Wins
HDD Based nav (which is out of date already) vs live Google Maps nav = Tesla Wins
oil changes vs none = Tesla Wins
6x spark plugs to change vs none = Tesla Wins
interior space = Tesla Wins (porsche has a crazy huge drive shaft tunnel going through the cabin)
trunk space = Tesla Wins
paying for gas vs paying for electricity = Tesla Wins
not available until NOV vs available now = Tesla Wins
30MPG vs 90+MPG = Tesla Wins (this alone puts tesla way above any ICE vehicle)
Interior customization = Tesla Wins (you can change gauges to display whatever you want, the porsche is just analog gauges)
access to free super charger network to go anywhere for pretty much free = Tesla Wins

Color selection = Porsche Wins
Wheel selection = porsche wins
Lat Grip 0.99 vs 0.92g = Porsche Wins
weight distribution 50/50 vs 46/54 = Porsche Wins
braking 60-0 104ft vs 105ft = Porsche Wins

Fat ass vs Fat ass = tie (both of them are ridiculously heavy)

Top speed is nearly irrelevant, your range/gas millage will go to absolute crap, i have not known a person to utilize the top speed in their personal vehicle on a daily basis, but i have seen lots of people hit peak torque while merging and on the highway.

Porsche has the start/stop tech on the engine, most annoying thing ever created.

i dont know about you guys but i think hybrids are the biggest waste, with EVs you just have...

battery > Amp controller + computer > Motor

with a hybrid you have so much extra junk that you need to move around

battery > Amp controller + computer > Motor + fuel tank > engine > transmission > drive shaft + differential

 

[Cosmacelf]

Great post AC1K.