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2014 Panamera S E-Hybrid vs Model S

Discussion in 'News' started by rage_777, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. rage_777

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    Tesla: A New Generation Of Competing Plug-In Luxury Hybrids Will Shrink The Niche Of The Model S - Seeking Alpha

    Not sure how he says this:
    Then says this:
    If the average commute is 12.6 miles, then what range limitations is he talking about?
     
  2. Electric700

    Electric700 Member

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  3. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    The author makes the same mistake nearly every single other author makes; assuming the Model S market is primarily the "environmental" crowd.
     
  4. Bipo

    Bipo Member

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    But the Panamera is really far from getting full power while in electric mode...
     
  5. scott2613

    scott2613 Member

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    I've spent my life working on and enjoying high performance cars and airplanes. His is a poorly informed opinion. A pure electric vehicle, car, motorcycle, etc. is something that needs to be fully experienced to be understood. The freedom from gas stations, the simplicity and lack of maintenance, the ability to instantly update and change, the shortened supply chain made possible by eliminating the dealer, the differentiation from everything else are just some of the things he does not take into account. Financial people have become a form of waste to business. Many of them have forgotten that their job is critically important in the capitalist system. It is to serve industry and labor. Investing in something should be about more than buying low and selling high. The future of Tesla will not be impacted much by overly complex, old fashioned technology bandaged up and repackaged. If that was their biggest challenge they would have it easy.
     
  6. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Yes, I read that article and I think his fundamental view is wrong. It's just a llug-in hybrid. I can see it selling to people who want a Porsche but benefit from the practicality of EV at low speed, but overall it's just not going to appeal to EV buyers. EV buyers are going for the most EV that works. Volt, Leaf, S, eveything else is a further compromise from there.
     
  7. HHHH

    HHHH Member

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    THIS.
     
  8. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    His article is full of subtle underhanded slights against Tesla.
    There are double quotes around "standard" and "Performance" when talking about the Tesla, but none like that talking about the Porsche.
    The Porsche performance numbers are listed as facts, but the Tesla ones are "Tesla claims".
     
  9. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    Rich,
    Did you see the testing that showed the 60 kwh 0-60 numbers being actually faster than the official Tesla quoted numbers.

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/is-tesla-under-selling-its-cars-performance.html/?a=viewall

     
  10. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I did, but the author makes no reference to that discrepancy. His characterization without any qualifiers implies doubt about the Tesla while the Porsche ones are facts ( which is retarded and backwards because the Porsche hasn't yet been sold ).
     
  11. IceWendigo

    IceWendigo Member

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    You are having a laugh.


    The Porsche is not even inthe same ball park, it's still wasting space on an Internal Compbustion Engine with fuel tanks filters pumps tubes exhaust, you still have to drive to the gas station, and do maintenance on the engine.


    The Telsa doesnt waste space on an engine with numerous moving parts, you have clean cargo space instead.


    Heres a few quotes about Porsche
    "The service guy quotes me $315...for an oil change"
    "Its a total ripoff"
    "315 is insane, i know what dealer u went to.. they are always HIGH.."
    "Find a new dealer...most are charging around $200"
    Its not really representative, but nonetheless gives a "flavor" of the joys of the Dealership business model

    The "wire" that feeds your Tesla with electricity, or a TV wire, requires less maintenance than an Internal Combustion Engine, and no trip to the dealer just for that.
    (My bet is that the Porsche resale value might also not be a shining comparison next to the Model S.)


    Imo, the "Non all-electric" Porsche is not a "serious" competitor
     
  12. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    TMC and TM forums are my first exposure to SA. I really hope these clowns do not get paid to write this stuff.
     
  13. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    Here's your answer.
    Quote: Meanwhile, as Tesla's current market cap of nearly $14 billion pretty much assumes that there will never be any real competition ever for the company while BMW, Mercedes and Audi all plan to introduce plug-in hybrid versions of their own largest sedans, I'm willing to sit with my short position and see how this all plays out.
    The guy is a short on Tesla and is "hoping" competition will pull down the share price of TSLA.
    Good luck mate! :eek:
     
  14. Seven7

    Seven7 Member

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    I looked into the Porsche and it really just didn't impress, to much of a compromise. I don't want to say anything negative about hybrid cars, so I'll stop here.
     
  15. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Many of the articles in SA are close to being laughable. This is one of them. Most are written by rank amateurs who don't have a clue about what objectivity means. And much of the analysis is sophomoric, as this is.
     
  16. sub

    sub Member

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    Couldn't agree more. Why is it they never have anything new to say? It seems to be the same article rewritten over and over again. I'm assuming the benefit or reason for it is to generate page views. I can't see anyone on the fence being swayed for very long.
     
  17. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters and infinite time will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

    The internet contains all the necessary monkeys and typewriters, but they've been at it for only a few years.
    Part of the challenge of the 21st century is figuring out who the monkeys are.
     
  18. cfOH

    cfOH Member

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    He's not writing for car people, he's writing for investors, specifically people he hope will sell their TSLA shares (or buy competitors') and drive the price down so that his short position doesn't bankrupt him.
     
  19. AC1K

    AC1K Member

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    Okay, lets break down the details shall we...?

    $100K for the Panamera vs $100K for the Tesla Performance 85kWh
    416HP (gas power) vs 416 (electric power) = Tesla Wins
    435 Torque vs 443 Torque = Tesla Wins
    8 speed slush box (not even a dual clutch:rolleyes:) vs Direct drive instant response = Tesla Wins
    Transmission fluid changes vs none = Tesla Wins
    7 quarts of oil required (synthetic only) vs none = Tesla Wins
    driving a brick wall around (radiator that requires flush maintenance) vs none = Tesla Wins
    0-60 in 5.1s (motor trend tested) vs 0-60 in 3.9 (motor trend tested) = Tesla Wins
    Quarter Mile 13.8s (MT tested) vs 12.3 (MT Tested) = Tesla Wins
    18in Wheels vs 21in wheels = Tesla Wins
    24 Miles vs 200 Miles + = Tesla Wins
    Glass roof vs Giant glass roof = Tesla Wins
    cD 0.29 vs cD 0.24 = Tesla Wins
    Center of gravity = Tesla Wins
    lame 4.8" LCD vs 17" LCD = Tesla Wins
    Premium fuel vs None = Tesla Wins
    HDD Based nav (which is out of date already) vs live Google Maps nav = Tesla Wins
    oil changes vs none = Tesla Wins
    6x spark plugs to change vs none = Tesla Wins
    interior space = Tesla Wins (porsche has a crazy huge drive shaft tunnel going through the cabin)
    trunk space = Tesla Wins
    paying for gas vs paying for electricity = Tesla Wins
    not available until NOV vs available now = Tesla Wins
    30MPG vs 90+MPG = Tesla Wins (this alone puts tesla way above any ICE vehicle)
    Interior customization = Tesla Wins (you can change gauges to display whatever you want, the porsche is just analog gauges)
    access to free super charger network to go anywhere for pretty much free = Tesla Wins

    Color selection = Porsche Wins
    Wheel selection = porsche wins
    Lat Grip 0.99 vs 0.92g = Porsche Wins
    weight distribution 50/50 vs 46/54 = Porsche Wins
    braking 60-0 104ft vs 105ft = Porsche Wins

    Fat ass vs Fat ass = tie (both of them are ridiculously heavy)

    Top speed is nearly irrelevant, your range/gas millage will go to absolute crap, i have not known a person to utilize the top speed in their personal vehicle on a daily basis, but i have seen lots of people hit peak torque while merging and on the highway.

    Porsche has the start/stop tech on the engine, most annoying thing ever created.

    i dont know about you guys but i think hybrids are the biggest waste, with EVs you just have...

    battery > Amp controller + computer > Motor

    with a hybrid you have so much extra junk that you need to move around

    battery > Amp controller + computer > Motor + fuel tank > engine > transmission > drive shaft + differential
     
  20. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Great post AC1K.
     

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