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2016 Ford Focus EV
- Thread starter dgindio
- Start date
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- Electric Vehicles
SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
3/4 of a charge shows 54 miles? Not exactly a serious effort on Ford's part.
SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
We need a nick name for compliance cars that show when makers give it a 1/2 ass shot... you know, like a walmart TV?
hey! it's a Wal-Mart EV! lol
hey! it's a Wal-Mart EV! lol
Tam
Well-Known Member
Its range is supposedly increased from 76 miles for last model year to 100 miles for 2017 model which is still below 2016 Nissan Leaf range of 107 miles.
There's no mention of DC fast charging option.
There's no mention of DC fast charging option.
SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
I swear somewhere, there is a flow chart, at every auto maker (other than Tesla) that has a simple diagram.
"Is it electric"? --> No --> give it good style and spend $100M on R&D
--> Yes--> make it look awful, give it the range of a weed whacker, and only buy parts from any remaining open Radio Shack.
"Is it electric"? --> No --> give it good style and spend $100M on R&D
--> Yes--> make it look awful, give it the range of a weed whacker, and only buy parts from any remaining open Radio Shack.
One of these was the first electric car I drove. It was the daily driver for a lady I knew, and she let me drive it in 1962. I do not know what happened to it after that, nor to the magnificent car collection she and her husband had.
There were, as I recall, no Fords in the collection.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
With the Focus, Ford is using what I call a "defensive" product strategy. It is not unique to EVs; for example, GM did a similar thing by slapping together the 85 Astro after Chrysler released the Caravan in 84. I have written more on this topic HERE, but this is a quick summary describing the Focus:
The auto market is pretty well saturated, there is an unreasonable amount of brand loyalty, and mass-market profits depend on volume. If you want to increase volumes in a saturated market, you pretty much have to steal customers from other automakers, which is tough given the loyalty. So automakers are constantly looking for ways to make conquest cars - slightly new product categories that will win over NEW (to them) customers from other brands. (If these conquest cars are low-margin, they have to be non-cannibalizing as well, but that's a separate issue).
In this case automakers like Nissan and BMW have produced conquest cars with the LEAF and i3. They have been very successful in pulling in new owners from other brands. Ford is one of the brands losing customers. Not to mention they needed a compliance car anyway.
All Ford was trying to do was to stop the bleeding as cheaply as possible. The cheapest way to create a car is to make it a version, so they created a version of the existing Focus. Most of the specs (when it was first released, anyway) very closely matched the LEAF. This was just a defensive maneuver to keep Ford loyalists buying a Ford rather than going to Nissan. They are letting Nissan doing most of the work to pave the EV way by dealing with governments, advertising, charging infrastructure, dealer training, ride-and-drive sponsorship, and the like.
Of course by making the Focus EV a cheap defensive version, they made some compromises, like stuffing batteries in the trunk since it was a conversion and there was nowhere else to put them, and leaving off DC charging because that was too hard (though I have heard the car was engineered to support it - marketing, infrastructure, standards, etc are likely far bigger issues) and perhaps they were hoping the whole zero-emission mandate thing would go away again.
For now, Ford doesn't have to sell too many EVs. The Focus EV is selling in very tiny numbers, but when combined with their quick, cheap, PHEV conversions (C-Max and Fusion) they are not really doing so bad and, for now, getting all the credits they need - and they have spent far less than Nissan and BMW (something very important to Ford; they have learned they can only predict regulations and demand so well and want to stay flexible). Once the Bolt, Model 3 and Nissan LEAF 2.0 are available, their approach will no longer be good enough. They will release a different car in this general category. It will likely be more competitive, but they have said they are going to continue with the cheaper, more-flexible shared platforms (something similar to what Hyundai is doing), so it won't be class-leading. I am more interested to see what they do with trucks and such...
It's not what I would buy, and I have pointed very few people at them. But if you are a multi-car family and don't need DC charging or a big trunk (hey, I didn't have those in my Roadster either), the Focus is a good little platform, electrifying it makes it better, and all the Focus EV owners I have talked to have been very pleased with their cars.
The auto market is pretty well saturated, there is an unreasonable amount of brand loyalty, and mass-market profits depend on volume. If you want to increase volumes in a saturated market, you pretty much have to steal customers from other automakers, which is tough given the loyalty. So automakers are constantly looking for ways to make conquest cars - slightly new product categories that will win over NEW (to them) customers from other brands. (If these conquest cars are low-margin, they have to be non-cannibalizing as well, but that's a separate issue).
In this case automakers like Nissan and BMW have produced conquest cars with the LEAF and i3. They have been very successful in pulling in new owners from other brands. Ford is one of the brands losing customers. Not to mention they needed a compliance car anyway.
All Ford was trying to do was to stop the bleeding as cheaply as possible. The cheapest way to create a car is to make it a version, so they created a version of the existing Focus. Most of the specs (when it was first released, anyway) very closely matched the LEAF. This was just a defensive maneuver to keep Ford loyalists buying a Ford rather than going to Nissan. They are letting Nissan doing most of the work to pave the EV way by dealing with governments, advertising, charging infrastructure, dealer training, ride-and-drive sponsorship, and the like.
Of course by making the Focus EV a cheap defensive version, they made some compromises, like stuffing batteries in the trunk since it was a conversion and there was nowhere else to put them, and leaving off DC charging because that was too hard (though I have heard the car was engineered to support it - marketing, infrastructure, standards, etc are likely far bigger issues) and perhaps they were hoping the whole zero-emission mandate thing would go away again.
For now, Ford doesn't have to sell too many EVs. The Focus EV is selling in very tiny numbers, but when combined with their quick, cheap, PHEV conversions (C-Max and Fusion) they are not really doing so bad and, for now, getting all the credits they need - and they have spent far less than Nissan and BMW (something very important to Ford; they have learned they can only predict regulations and demand so well and want to stay flexible). Once the Bolt, Model 3 and Nissan LEAF 2.0 are available, their approach will no longer be good enough. They will release a different car in this general category. It will likely be more competitive, but they have said they are going to continue with the cheaper, more-flexible shared platforms (something similar to what Hyundai is doing), so it won't be class-leading. I am more interested to see what they do with trucks and such...
It's not what I would buy, and I have pointed very few people at them. But if you are a multi-car family and don't need DC charging or a big trunk (hey, I didn't have those in my Roadster either), the Focus is a good little platform, electrifying it makes it better, and all the Focus EV owners I have talked to have been very pleased with their cars.
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SabrToothSqrl
Active Member
An Exxon conspiracy theory you say...?
Hey, I could be bought off too for say... $2 million cash
Xminus6
Member
My brother-in-law has a Focus EV that's a couple years old. When compared against a Nissan Leaf of the same vintage, it holds up well. We had a Leaf at the time that was a couple years older and the Focus EV was better in most ways. Most importantly, it felt mostly like a normal car whereas Nissan seemed to put effort into making the Leaf different, for better or for worse.
I agree that at this stage in adoption for EVs, the '16 Focus EV having such a paltry range is getting embarrassing. But it's still comparable to plenty of other EVs on the market now. The Bolt has really changed the game as far as affordable EVs go and I think that's a great thing. If I were choosing between any of the currently available <$70k EVs right now, there would be no reason to make a choice other than the Bolt. Sure, it's uglier than a Focus but in every other metric it's superior.
I agree that at this stage in adoption for EVs, the '16 Focus EV having such a paltry range is getting embarrassing. But it's still comparable to plenty of other EVs on the market now. The Bolt has really changed the game as far as affordable EVs go and I think that's a great thing. If I were choosing between any of the currently available <$70k EVs right now, there would be no reason to make a choice other than the Bolt. Sure, it's uglier than a Focus but in every other metric it's superior.
Chopr147
Active Member
So what your saying is in 1907 some company named Anderson Electric Car Company made a car with twice the EV distance that Ford can come up with today? :0
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
I know you are being funny Chopr, but here is some clarity for others that may be reading along:
The range rating system a century ago was not quite what we have now. Chances are great that a current Focus can go farther on the freeway. In fact it's a sure thing, because those old cars couldn't go that fast in the first place.
Also, Ford definitely CAN make a car with more range. But it would cost them a lot more than the Focus EV did, and the Focus (plus their PHEVs) has served their needs so far, though with the 3 and Bolt hoopla I don't expect that to last long. Ford doesn't want to spend the money and take the risks to lead the market; they want to create flexible assembly lines with a variety of powertrain options and then be a fast follower.
The risk of this cheap-and-safe route is that they will never have the best product. The possible payoff (if they execute correctly) is that at some point they may be able to produce a good-enough product very quickly and at low cost.
I understand what Ford is doing, but personally I'm choosing to give my money to Tesla (see avatar for my last three cars) - I like their approach better.
The range rating system a century ago was not quite what we have now. Chances are great that a current Focus can go farther on the freeway. In fact it's a sure thing, because those old cars couldn't go that fast in the first place.
Also, Ford definitely CAN make a car with more range. But it would cost them a lot more than the Focus EV did, and the Focus (plus their PHEVs) has served their needs so far, though with the 3 and Bolt hoopla I don't expect that to last long. Ford doesn't want to spend the money and take the risks to lead the market; they want to create flexible assembly lines with a variety of powertrain options and then be a fast follower.
The risk of this cheap-and-safe route is that they will never have the best product. The possible payoff (if they execute correctly) is that at some point they may be able to produce a good-enough product very quickly and at low cost.
I understand what Ford is doing, but personally I'm choosing to give my money to Tesla (see avatar for my last three cars) - I like their approach better.
