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2016 Model S 90D w/102k miles and 23% degradation? Help

Jmcgee22

Member
Aug 28, 2021
11
0
Seattle
Hey guys, this is my first post on here and I'm new to the whole EV world but have been a fan for quite some time. I am finally going to pull the trigger and have landed on a 16 Model S 90D. I had the luxury of taking it home for the night to get a better feel for it before making a decision since my buddy is the GM of the dealership. I live across the street from a supercharging station, so I charged it all the way up to 100% to see where the battery degradation was at since the miles are pretty high (although I will say that it is in immaculate condition given the miles).

Charged up at 100% only gave me 227 miles in range. From my math with full range being 294 miles, that puts me at 77% capacity if i divide 227 by 294 (Please feel free to correct me if my math is wrong).

Now being a 2016 with an in-service date of 04/19/2016, it has the 96mo (8yr) unlimited mile warranty on the battery which gives me just under 3 years remaining. Will Tesla even consider replacing the battery under warranty even though it's still below their 30% guideline for degradation? Or could my fuzzy math be off not factoring in everything to the equation properly, potentially putting me over the mark for them to replace the battery?

I've thought about bringing it directly to Tesla myself prior to purchase, but I'm not sure they would even look at the vehicle for me without it being registered in my name yet. Or will they?

The second part of this equation is if I can't get the battery replaced yet, is it safe to say that it will drop to 70% or below within the 32mo that I have remaining on the warranty given that it's at 77% currently?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thank you guys in advance!
 

Nosken

Member
Jan 15, 2015
858
738
Lincoln, CA
A couple things to consider. I think the later 90D's had "294 Miles" range, the earlier had slightly less.
One charge to 100% will not give you a true result. It needs to be significantly discharged, ad then charged to 100% to reset the BMS reading. This doesn't "gain" more miles, just makes the reading more accurate.
As I remember there were 4 version or Revs of the 90 battery. the first 3 were somewhat problematic. Search the forum.
For reference, I have the Rev 4 in my 11/2016 build AP2 car. I have 118,000 miles and have around 88.8% Capacity, based on the "294".
My car never really did 294, it was in the high 280 range when new (saw 299 one time, then back to high 280), putting me around 91.5% and you around 79.6%. My 100% is about 262.
My degradation was not a steady decline. For the first 50,000 miles it was about 4%, and the rest has been gradual.
I do not baby my battery, pre COVID, I always charged to 90% and briefly to 100% pre-trip. I drive a lot, 118,000 miles in 4.5 years. 3/17 to present.
With the proliferation of Superchargers, diminished range is more of an inconvenience, rather than a deal breaker.
Since that is an AP1, pre-facelift car, you should be getting a decent deal. What kind of price and options does it have?
BTW---You seem to be getting some responses in the other forum-was that not sufficient? (Yes, I would have missed it)
 

Jmcgee22

Member
Aug 28, 2021
11
0
Seattle
Luckily I have the ability to drive it over the next couple of days. So I should discharge the batty down to maybe 10% and supercharge back to 100 again to get a more accurate reading?

Correct, it is a pre-facelift car with AP1. I'm not an expert on all of the different packages but from what I can tell it also has a panoramic roof, air suspension plus, Alcantara headliner, premium sound, 21" turbine wheels, and premium connectivity. I'd get it for 39k. (I'm very fortunate to be able to essentially get cars as cost of what the dealership got them for at auction.

I could also get a 2012 Signature 85 with 48k miles for just over 30k but thought that the newer model would be a smarter choice. Although I don't want to shoot myself in the foot later on in a few years with a 140-150k miles tesla that has major degradation and no marketability. (the used car market is at a premium right now, so even though I'd be getting a good deal in todays market, doesn't mean that it will be considered a good deal in relation to what I owe in a few years)

That's why I was also wondering about the degradation warranty and if it could potentially apply to this 90D, or if the degradation is even covered under this model year. There are so many mixed answers depending on where you look.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,987
13,775
California
You should not buy this car thinking Tesla is going to replace the battery for you. They won’t, unless it fails.

It’s highly unlikely you’ll continue to degrade past the 30% mark in the next ~2.5 years. As we covered in the other thread, the only enforceable warranty is the one that originally came with the car, and that warranty doesn’t cover degradation. Tesla is not in the business of handing out $20k replacement batteries if they don’t have to.

Additionally, an early 2016 90D probably came with a 288 mile range rating when new, not 294 (I believe that number came about post refresh).
 

Jmcgee22

Member
Aug 28, 2021
11
0
Seattle
I also just noticed that the range I was using to calculate degradation was in rated, not ideal. Is that the correct way to measure, or should I have been using ideal for that measurement?
 

Nosken

Member
Jan 15, 2015
858
738
Lincoln, CA
To put a little perspective on the price, my late 2016, with lifetime free Supercharging, Free Premium connectivity, Premium Audio, Cold Weather package, Battery Rev 4, AP2 with FSD, full XPel wrap, at 118,000 miles is probably worth around $40000-$45,000 on the high side, less on Edmunds, KBB, has more value than that car. I am not selling, yet, maybe new Model S LR in January, depending on how the EV rebate shakes out.
 

PCMc

Member
Jul 1, 2016
277
244
Columbus, IN
Just confirming, is this a 90D or a P90D? Reason I ask if you stated it has the 21" wheels. It's very possible that is it a 90D with 21" wheels, but just checking.

Also, the early 90Ds, which is which is what this car sounds like, I believe actually were rated at 270 miles. That would mean this car is at 16% apparent degradation on the battery. I know you posted in this other thread on 90D batteries and rated range and you can find a copy of the original window sticker for a Nov 2015 produced 90D and you'll see it shows 270 as the rated range.

 
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dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
746
673
Northeast USA
Correct, it is a pre-facelift car with AP1. I'm not an expert on all of the different packages but from what I can tell it also has a panoramic roof, air suspension plus, Alcantara headliner, premium sound, 21" turbine wheels, and premium connectivity. I'd get it for 39k. (I'm very fortunate to be able to essentially get cars as cost of what the dealership got them for at auction.

Hang on - if it's pre-facelift (meaning nosecone) then it is probably the 270 mile rated model of the 90D. Like I mentioned in the other thread, this puts the degradation at a more reasonable number given the mileage. The fact that you would still have the 8yr/unlimited mile battery and drive motor warranty in effect for another 3 years is also a good thing.

I could also get a 2012 Signature 85 with 48k miles for just over 30k but thought that the newer model would be a smarter choice.

I'd pass on this. The earlier Model S cars were a little rough around the edges.
 
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cousin_IT

Face provided by boredhumans.com
Oct 27, 2020
357
275
Netherlands
I have a P90D pre facelift ap1 as well with approx 20% degradation. Got a great deal on it and am generally happy with the car. Got the new MCU2 upgrade as well, still warranty on battery and drive train. Would buy again.
 

JimmyB

Member
Sep 7, 2014
185
116
Washington, DC
If you have the car for an extended period, take it to a supercharger. Ideally get the battery good and low first (and warmed up properly). Take careful note of the supercharging rate - in kW, not the “miles per hour” readout the car gives you. The figure you’re interested in is Battery % + charge rate in kW.

Why? You want to get an idea of how much the battery has been “chargegated”. I’m not sure, tbh, what the expected figure would be on a rev A 90 pack; I know that on my 85D, % + kW settles to around 115 after a few moments.

You might also find a helpful forum member near you who has the Scan My Tesla app and appropriate cable, that way you can gain valuable insights in the battery performance of your prospective purchase.

When I was looking for my S, I found a 90D locally in fantastic condition. But after all I’d read about the V1 packs I opted for a slightly older, higher mileage but better equipped 85D for $10k less. According to TeslaMate, my projected range averages at 265.66 - a whopping 0.5% degradation. But I do have to put up with the slooooow supercharging.

Whatever you decide, good luck!
 
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Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,765
8,352
Boise, ID
Just adding votes to confirm a couple of things people have said. There is no degradation capacity warranty at all on 2016 cars.

And yes, I would not buy a used 2012 car. They were pretty rough in the 2012 and 2013 years. I have a 2014, and it has been pretty good, but the 15 or 16 or newer is a good area to look for.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,765
8,352
Boise, ID
What---Where do you come up with this?
From the actual warranty document. It states very specifically that capacity loss from normal degradation is EXCLUDED from any warranty coverage. The Model 3 then came out in about 2018 and did add a warranty for the 70% capacity degradation. And then some time after that, they started including that on new Model S and X vehicles.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,422
38,301
Oregon
What---Where do you come up with this?
From the warranty document that applies to the older Model S/X that come with the unlimited mile warranty. That has this in it:

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty...
 
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Nosken

Member
Jan 15, 2015
858
738
Lincoln, CA
A couple things to consider. I think the later 90D's had "294 Miles" range, the earlier had slightly less.
One charge to 100% will not give you a true result. It needs to be significantly discharged, ad then charged to 100% to reset the BMS reading. This doesn't "gain" more miles, just makes the reading more accurate.
As I remember there were 4 version or Revs of the 90 battery. the first 3 were somewhat problematic. Search the forum.
For reference, I have the Rev 4 in my 11/2016 build AP2 car. I have 118,000 miles and have around 88.8% Capacity, based on the "294".
My car never really did 294, it was in the mid 285 when new, putting me around 91.5% and you around 79.6%. My 100% is about 262.
My degradation was not a steady decline. For the first 50,000 miles it was about 4%, and the rest has been gradual.
I do not baby my battery, pre COVID, I always charged to 90% and briefly to 100% pre-trip. I drive a lot, 118,000 miles in 4.5 years. 3/17 to present.
With the proliferation of Superchargers, diminished range is more of an inconvenience, rather than a deal breaker.
Since that is an AP1, pre-facelift car, you should be getting a decent deal. What kind of price and options does it have?
 

Electric700

Active Member
May 21, 2013
1,739
423
Florida, United States
If you charge to 100%, please drive your car immediately after the charge completes. It's better to do this type of charge with at least a Level 2 charging station. Ideally, charge up to 90% maximum for normal driving and better battery health.
 

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