HankLloydRight
No Roads
The refresh hood is very different from the classic hood (we've been through all this before). A lot more changed than just the plastic bumper, so no, I don't think it's a trivial retrofit.
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2016 Model S Refresh Mega-thread
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I think it's going to end up being way more trivial than you think. I've been saying this for months and finally someone posted pictures of a Tesla test mule running a facelift bumper cover on a classic car. The only real aesthetic difference is the curve of the front of the hood. The facelift is slightly less curved than the classic. The what if isn't whether or not it will fit. It's how much you're going to pay for all the bits and pieces such as the trim.
Either way it should be substantially less than the retrofit bumpers.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Yeah, I'm not basing it on a one-off test mule that was clearly a pre-facelift car fitted with a test mule bumper (the rocker panels were still unchanged). I'm sure by the time it got to production, significant other changes were made, for instance, relocating (or eliminating) the 12-volt jump posts, among many other structural changes noted by owners.
if it really is "substantially less", would there even be a retrofit bumper business?
if it really is "substantially less", would there even be a retrofit bumper business?
If the only argument you can make for the stock piece not fitting is "why would they make an aftermarket version if the stock part fit?" then really there's no sense in continuing the conversation. Given the sheetmetal is identical (sans hood curvature) I think from an engineering standpoint the reasonable conclusion to draw would be that the bumper cover will bolt on just fine until there is reason to suspect otherwise.
The only what-ifs here are the cost of the trim, dealing with the radar on AP cars (which admittedly the retrofit kits do), etc.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
It's not "my only argument". We've been through this in great detail in this and/or other threads. People have compared both side-by-side, and among the differences are things like the facelifted cars have very different internal frunk trim. There have been many more changes than just the curvature of the hood -- which, by the way, would look awful with the facelifted front end. I'm not saying it's not possible to figure out how to bolt on a stock facelifted bumper onto an older car, but I am saying it is A LOT more work than that to get it to look and fit right.
ArtInCT
Always Learning
In 1967-70 loads of 1966 Corvette Coupe (Split Rear Window) owners decided to remove the split in the rear window... As in 1967 Chevrolet had eliminated the splitter on the Vette. They wanted their 66's to have the "new" look... Having done this, eventually as years passed by, they realized that they totally destroyed the value of their coupe. However, it can be "restored" at some considerable expense.
Not saying this would happen with the Model S at all... do not get me wrong.. but I personally would not do anything that could not be "undone". Been there, done that.
Not saying this would happen with the Model S at all... do not get me wrong.. but I personally would not do anything that could not be "undone". Been there, done that.
I plan to continue sucking the plankton into my classic fish mouth. I'm completely fine with it.
ArtC
Member
The only Corvette with a split window was the 1963 Coupe.
krazineurons
krazineurons
By then the debate might shift to how the model Y is lot cheaper and still 100x better than X
Based on what? Have you tried? Have you had a car apart to see the differences? If you haven't then that's not a statement you can make with any degree of certainty. The trim might be different, sure but at the end of the day the bumper cover mounts to the car, not the trim. All I see on the forums is people talking about how it won't work based entirely on speculation and then others repeating it until it's basically just gospel that it can't work. Nobody's actually taken any action. Everybody just talks.
I've looked at both closely with the trim removed. To me it looks even easier than I first suspected. Maybe on AP cars it might be different but on a classic car this looks to be pretty straightforward and there's nothing I've seen so far to suggest that it would be a lot more work than the retrofit kit. I'm not saying it absolutely will or that it will be completely painless but I'm not saying that because I haven't tried. So how people can speak in absolutely when they too haven't tried defies logic to me. Also, I don't know about you but I'm willing to do marginally more work to save a decent amount of money and I'm also willing to do marginally more work to get the lines of the OE bumper which the retrofit does not match, especially near the headlights.
So far the crux of your argument seems to be "if it was easy to do why would the retrofit bumper exist?" and that's a pretty weak point, especially considering that the retrofit bumper was announced just a few weeks after the facelifted car was announced and likely just days after the first facelifted cars were delivered and the pictures on their site appeared to have all been edited, not of any actual existing product. In other words, it's more likely than not that they hadn't even set eyes on a facelift car in person before announcing that retrofit bumper and yet you cite the existence of said product as proof that it wouldn't work.
I don't put a lot of merit in internet speculation though and I have a hard time taking people seriously when they assure me something can't be done or can't be done easily and they speak when they have made no attempt to try and are presumably basing their opinions off of others that also have made no attempt to try. I've owned two performance companies and have spent nearly two decades on forums watching people speak in absolutes about what will and won't work only to then be proven wrong by me or others. And I'm not some magical wizard. I just don't follow the logic of dismissing something outright without even attempting it. I've been wrong before too. I've been wrong a lot. But I try.
So if you want to tell me specifically what won't work or what will be "a lot" more work to retrofit and you can say this based off of specific parts you've seen not match up that you're sure couldn't easily be addressed, I'm all ears. If you're just telling me people have compared pictures and angles then you're in no better position to say it won't easily work than I am to say it will. The difference is that I'll try and if I'm wrong I'll be the first to say it.
But when I say it can/ can't be done easily it will be because I did it, not because I compared pictures on the internet and declared it to be too hard.
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HankLloydRight
No Roads
Well good luck then. The gap between the hood and the facelift bumper is going to be hideous.
Looks are subjective but I don't think it looks bad at all. Definitely a little more curved than the facelift hood but not enough that it would jump out at you. Obviously you got to use a little imagination here but you get the idea. And I can't see how Kartstyle could make it so their retrofit bumper didn't have the same gap and indeed in their renderings, there it is.
Personally I'd take the nominally larger gap in the hood rather than the lines of the aftermarket offering, especially if you're following that line below the headlight to the corner of the hood by the grill. It's nothing like the OE bumper. To me that's a much more substantial difference though. Obviously looks are subjective though so I can appreciate it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
Personally I'd take the nominally larger gap in the hood rather than the lines of the aftermarket offering, especially if you're following that line below the headlight to the corner of the hood by the grill. It's nothing like the OE bumper. To me that's a much more substantial difference though. Obviously looks are subjective though so I can appreciate it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
Are you asking me this question because of an email you got based on a post I made here and then deleted?
The answer is yes though. The bumper cover from Tesla costs...
wait for it...
$415.
So for 1/5th the cost of that retrofit bumper you could have the real deal. At that price point it seems downright foolish for someone not to try. My wife smacked my bumper cover with her i3 so it needs to be re-painted anyhow. May as well swap it out.
The complications for older cars would be that they don't make the bumper without the AP sonar sensor holes which means owners of the OG cars like me have to buy the sonar sensors and just leave them there doing nothing or have the holes filled. It's $14 per sensor though so I just assume buy them. Those with parking sensors (but no AP) would only need to buy two.
But even if we're looking at buying extra trim, and I'm sure we are, the price isn't going to be substantially cheaper than the retrofit piece coming to market unless this is going to force me to buy an entirely new front end. I figure worst case scenario the logo/ trim at the top of the bumper cover are not included, the grill insert in the center bottom is not included and we might be looking at misc trim for the under-hood area. Judging from the looks of the stock cover, it mounts under the trim in the hood area so I suspect we'll be able to re-use all that. But it's one of those wait and see things.
My SA is trying to determine if he can get it for me directly or if I need to go through a body shop. I'm crossing my fingers that he can get it. He knows I'm willing to take the risk (I bought an LED headlight last week) and every time I talk to a Tesla certified body shop and they hear what I'm trying to do they pull one of these...
I'd rather get it, fit it myself, trim what needs trimming, order what needs ordering and then bring it to a bodyshop and let them paint it. Otherwise they're going to go all insurance on me and invoice every single nut and bolt they lose and ain't nobody got time for that.
Whoops, I said the price isn't going to be substantially cheaper than the retrofit. I obviously meant that even with the needed trim, assuming it all works, it is going to be substantially cheaper than the retrofit bumper. Assume maybe $200 in misc trim pieces and you're at $700 before paint versus $2500.
Adrian
Title(D)
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