I just took delivery of a 2016 X P100DL with 34k miles from Tesla yesterday and the car is mostly what I expected but I am pretty concerned about the battery degradation I'm seeing. I hooked it up to Scan My Tesla and I'm seeing "Nominal Full Pack" energy of 91.8 kWh. Balance was pretty good at 4.5 mV and the car had only been supercharged 100 kWh in its life. I charged it to 100% just before leaving today and it only reached 269 miles of rated range. Has anybody else experienced this kind of degradation in a 100 kWh pack? I thought the 100 packs were pretty bulletproof, which is why I shelled out for a 100 pack instead of a 90. Has anybody had any success warrantying an issue at this stage, which isn't really catastrophic but it's certainly not looking healthy given its age?
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2016 X P100D used battery degradation
- Thread starter Maxv
- Start date
I estimate the usable capacity of my 2018 X as being 97.2 kWh and TeslaFi's battery report indicates no degradation in the 5000 miles driven. Assuming that is the rated capacity of a "full" M 100X battery when new your estimated value of 91.8 represents Comparing that to your estimate of 91.8 kWh indicates about 5.6% degradation which is pretty close to what Obenjamin observed for a car of similar age. But I wouldn't draw too many conclusions based on data from 3 cars. Measuring usable capacity is non trivial for many reasons not the least of which is that Tesla can change the usable capacity of the battery without changing the battery at all simply by redefining the empty and fully charged voltages.
Were I you I would keep track of battery health for a few months before forming a definite conclusion. Obviously some degradation is to be expected.
Were I you I would keep track of battery health for a few months before forming a definite conclusion. Obviously some degradation is to be expected.
91.8 kWh is the battery energy the BMS reports. I had estimated 7% degradation from the reduction in full charge range of 289 to 269 miles.
I believe the 100 packs are 102.4 kWh as designed with a 4 kWh reserve. So your usable capacity represents about 1% degradation, which is what I would expect for the age of your car. But everything I've read suggests we should expect to lose about 5% in the first 50k miles and then see the degradation slow quite a bit.
I believe the 100 packs are 102.4 kWh as designed with a 4 kWh reserve. So your usable capacity represents about 1% degradation, which is what I would expect for the age of your car. But everything I've read suggests we should expect to lose about 5% in the first 50k miles and then see the degradation slow quite a bit.
Remember that this is largely a numbers game. Data I obtain from charging indicates that my car has a usable capacity of 97.2 kWh but remember that is an estimate based on percentages rounded to 1% and so it is a pretty rough estimate. But it you want to add a 4 kW reserve to that you could say the total capacity of the battery is 101.2 kW. OTOH if you want to add a 5 kW reserve to that you could say the battery capacity is 102.2 kW. As to degradation in the battery I can, again, only look at my own charging record which shows that miles and capacity are uncorrelated over 5500 miles to 98.9% confidence. IOW the probability of seeing the level of correlation I do with the variance in capacity estimates being totally random, not dependent on age) is 98.9%. Note that my car was delivered indicating 99.3% of rated capacity which went up to 99.5% for a while and then dropped back to 99.3%.
Do a search on "Tesla Range Degradation". It shouldn't take you long to come up with some curves for probably the S but they will give you an idea about the extent of the variance that has been observed.
Do a search on "Tesla Range Degradation". It shouldn't take you long to come up with some curves for probably the S but they will give you an idea about the extent of the variance that has been observed.
forkee
Member
you are still better off than if you got a 90. My XP90DL gets 227 of rated range and about 100 miles of actual range, lol.
I have read quite a bit about degradation in Teslas but haven't found much data on 100 kWh battery degradation. Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm very interested in hearing experience from others who may have a 100 pack from late 2016. As far as I know from the research @wk057 shared, the reserve is 4 kWh, we're not just guessing.
Story time!
In the past 3 days I've ordered 2 2016 Xs. One P100DL and one P90DL. Like @Maxv, I heard the 90 pack was really bad from @wk057's research so I wanted to get a 100 pack instead but I ordered the 90 pack as a back up since it was also $5k less and I figured - "How bad could it be?!"
Well, found out from my OA that after degradation, the 90 pack only has 75kWh of usable space left while the 100 has 92kWh of usable space left.
Hope that offers some perspective of how bad it could be had you got the 90kWh pack and another data point from another 2016 P100DL.
Thanks! That's exactly the kind of data point I'm looking for. Sounds like your p100dl is in exactly the same condition. Maybe this is part for the course. Surprised your OA was willing to give you pack energy numbers.
Glad this was useful. My OA has been super helpful through the purchase process. Wish I could say the same about Tesla solar...
Hi, know this thread is pretty old now, but I just wandered upon it after a search on "battery degradation" - just curious. My Oct 2016 MX P100D only had about 265 miles of total range available (of the rated 289 when new) according to Teslafi when I purchased it in Feb of this year. I haven't measured it, but I don't think I've lost much since then. Sounds about consistent with what I'm reading on this thread. Do you have any updates on your 2016 P100D batteries? Thanks. Enjoy hearing about others' experiences on this website. Glad I got the 100 battery pack. Didn't know about the 90 vs 100 degradation differences when I bought my car, so I guess I got very lucky!
Range going up over time??
BTW, what's the difference in the "rated" range vs the "ideal" range - the two selections from which to pick on your display in the car?
The EPA used to have a different testing method that came up with values that way too pie-in-the-sky optimistic. But Tesla was already starting to use those numbers when they were developing the Model S. By the time it was getting ready to release, around 2010 to 2012, the EPA had come up with a new testing and rating method and was phasing out the old one.
Tesla was trying to figure out how to deal with that, since they had already been advertising from the previous testing numbers, so they renamed that one "Ideal" and under the new testing method, which showed lower range numbers, they called that one "Rated", since that was the new rating system the EPA was using.
This has created some interesting confusion with people from Europe versus the U.S. when talking about "rated". Because Europe uses a testing agency called NEDC that still uses a crazy unrealistic rating. So over in Europe, the fantasy optimistic one is called "rated", and the lower, more achievable one is called "typical".
Without charging my batteries to 100%, to figure out a close approximation of my 100% range, I just go to the Energy screen, and take my miles remaining and divide by the % battery remaining. Depending on how I've been driving the last 30 miles, sometimes I get a higher number for my 100% battery mileage, and sometimes I get a lower number. It's all really a guess and depends on how you drive after you've charged. For another battery % remaining anomaly, today I parked my car at work, and the car read 47% battery remaining. When I looked at my app after being at work for 3 hours, the app showed my car had 49% remaining. Unless I parked my car over the top of an inductive battery charger, how is that possible? It's possible because the % battery charge remaining display is really nothing more than a guess and depends on so many different factors such as temperature, humidity, wind, the tide level, pH, when you last ate, and the intensity of sun spots that day.
Without charging my batteries to 100%, to figure out a close approximation of my 100% range, I just go to the Energy screen, and take my miles remaining and divide by the % battery remaining. Depending on how I've been driving the last 30 miles, sometimes I get a higher number for my 100% battery mileage, and sometimes I get a lower number. It's all really a guess and depends on how you drive after you've charged. For another battery % remaining anomaly, today I parked my car at work, and the car read 47% battery remaining. When I looked at my app after being at work for 3 hours, the app showed my car had 49% remaining. Unless I parked my car over the top of an inductive battery charger, how is that possible? It's possible because the % battery charge remaining display is really nothing more than a guess and depends on so many different factors such as temperature, humidity, wind, the tide level, pH, when you last ate, and the intensity of sun spots that day.
If temperature goes up, the relative charge can increase. I don't notice it my X so much, but my Model 3 frequently goes as much as 3 or 4% sitting outside in the sun. I charge it to 75% at 05:00 every day. By noon if i haven't moved it, it is often 77 or 78%. In the winter 20º or so, it goes down.
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