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chillaban

Active Member
May 5, 2016
3,723
6,538
Bay Area
As I recall, the first time I became aware of this by blindly trusting it, it was able to stop on its own. It was more like a panic stop, jamming on the brakes, like a driver who just looked up while texting. Perhaps that’s just emergency anti-collision braking.
If the pavement is dry and you have summer tires, stopping distance can be surprisingly good. It's probably just a sudden TACC brake and not really AEB (AEB is so forceful that it'll knock the wind out of you if you get caught off-guard — you'll know if it's AEB without a doubt).

But with that said, that kind of stop has so many variables and at this point with .50.3 I would not advise approaching stopped traffic faster than 25 or 30mph in good weather conditions :D

EDIT: I actually use Autosteer every day in city traffic and I use the trick of slowing the car down via stalk to 25mph whenever I see stopped traffic. That has been enough to avoid disengaging AP consistently.
 

scottf200

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
3,770
3,326
Chicagoland ModelX S603
EDIT: I actually use Autosteer every day in city traffic and I use the trick of slowing the car down via stalk to 25mph whenever I see stopped traffic. That has been enough to avoid disengaging AP consistently.
I do the exact same thing and it works well with a modest hassle. Did it about 3 times earlier today on about 1.5 hrs of driving in the suburbs.

Twice today tho while in the rightmost lane, a car a couple hundred yards ahead was turning right out of my lane to a side street. My X on 50.3 slooowed down a lot and there was no way at our current rate of speed that we would be *even* close to them. I guess it just felt really unnatural (non-human).
 

Lawsteve

MCATDT
Aug 12, 2013
737
464
Tampa, FL
EDIT: I actually use Autosteer every day in city traffic and I use the trick of slowing the car down via stalk to 25mph whenever I see stopped traffic. That has been enough to avoid disengaging AP consistently.


I do this, and also do this when approaching a sharp curve that I know the car will not negotiate at a faster speed.
 

Daniellane

Supporting Member
Aug 13, 2017
2,372
2,655
Camas, Washington
If the pavement is dry and you have summer tires, stopping distance can be surprisingly good. It's probably just a sudden TACC brake and not really AEB (AEB is so forceful that it'll knock the wind out of you if you get caught off-guard — you'll know if it's AEB without a doubt).

But with that said, that kind of stop has so many variables and at this point with .50.3 I would not advise approaching stopped traffic faster than 25 or 30mph in good weather conditions :D

EDIT: I actually use Autosteer every day in city traffic and I use the trick of slowing the car down via stalk to 25mph whenever I see stopped traffic. That has been enough to avoid disengaging AP consistently.
great tip!
Thanks - next drive, I’ll try the trick of slowing the car down via stalk to 25mph whenever I see stopped traffic.
 

Bet TSLA

Active Member
Dec 8, 2014
2,807
10,249
Cupertino, CA
You and I got suckered into buying what is essentially a "beta" car.
Oh, give it a rest. The software is rough. Tesla could have not included features until they were perfect, they could have not shipped Model 3 yet because there are many software inadequacies, but so what? I'm extremely happy that I have my Model 3 now, not in a year. I'm very happy with my Model S. If you aren't happy, just move on to something else that does make you happy. Meanwhile, everybody's Teslas will keep getting better as they update the software.

Tesla will always have new features that are rough and incomplete. Perhaps one day they'll have a setting that lets grumpy people disable them all until they are perfect.

It sounds like you should get a car that stays exactly the same as the day you get it. That way there won't be all these things to upset you.
 

conman

Active Member
Aug 19, 2017
1,436
2,131
Melbourne, Australia
As I recall, the first time I became aware of this by blindly trusting it, it was able to stop on its own. It was more like a panic stop, jamming on the brakes, like a driver who just looked up while texting. Perhaps that’s just emergency anti-collision braking.
No, it's definitely not EAB because if you read the description of it you'll see it's designed to minimise the severity of an impact and not prevent a collision entirely. If it has pulled up in time then it has been autopilot finally seeing the car. I'm quite sure in the times I've intervened it wouldn't have stopped in time. I figured that out a while back and just turn the damn thing off when coming up to a stop from high speed, and end up using regen braking a lot more than the autopilot would have done if I hit the brakes late to avoid dying.
 
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oktane

Active Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,558
1,531
USA
Oh, give it a rest. The software is rough. Tesla could have not included features until they were perfect, they could have not shipped Model 3 yet because there are many software inadequacies, but so what? I'm extremely happy that I have my Model 3 now, not in a year. I'm very happy with my Model S. If you aren't happy, just move on to something else that does make you happy. Meanwhile, everybody's Teslas will keep getting better as they update the software.

Tesla will always have new features that are rough and incomplete. Perhaps one day they'll have a setting that lets grumpy people disable them all until they are perfect.

It sounds like you should get a car that stays exactly the same as the day you get it. That way there won't be all these things to upset you.

To each their own. I'm happy enough with the car's drivetrain and performance. I'm not so thrilled with the fact that AP2 still hasn't fully reached parity with AP1 despite being marketed as "enhanced" or superior about 1.5 years ago when I put my money down.

Most of my dissatisfaction comes not from my Model S (Tessie) or Tesla advocates (Bet TSLA), but from the Tesla company and those who without a doubt WILLFULLY deceived customers to promote sales of cars they knew would never live up to the advertising, without even acknowledging this problem exists.
 
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Daniellane

Supporting Member
Aug 13, 2017
2,372
2,655
Camas, Washington
Oh, give it a rest. The software is rough. Tesla could have not included features until they were perfect, they could have not shipped Model 3 yet because there are many software inadequacies, but so what? I'm extremely happy that I have my Model 3 now, not in a year. I'm very happy with my Model S. If you aren't happy, just move on to something else that does make you happy. Meanwhile, everybody's Teslas will keep getting better as they update the software.

Tesla will always have new features that are rough and incomplete. Perhaps one day they'll have a setting that lets grumpy people disable them all until they are perfect.

It sounds like you should get a car that stays exactly the same as the day you get it. That way there won't be all these things to upset you.
I completely agree, with one caveat.
Tesla could do a better job communicating AP limitations and capabilities with release notes and owner’s manual updates. Not everyone participates in these forums.
And I’d venture to guess only a small portion of forum participants have read this thread.
 
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oktane

Active Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,558
1,531
USA
I completely agree, with one caveat.
Tesla could do a better job communicating AP limitations and capabilities with release notes and owner’s manual updates. Not everyone participates in these forums.
And I’d venture to guess only a small portion of forum participants have read this thread.

You're a presumably new Tesla owner so you don't really understand the frustration. The initial hype, let down, and controversy were striking.

If I had never driven a Tesla and knew nothing, and bought an AP2 Model S today, I'd be satisfied with the purchase.

However, having put down a deposit Oct. 2016 and passing on $50,000 cheaper AP1 cars then being lied to about AP2 and paying an extra $10,000 for that privilege, then dealing with zero AP capability for months, then garbage, then finally something that sorta works, well......it's a different situation and feeling.

And FSD? Not sure how they can in good conscience not give me a refund.
 

Daniellane

Supporting Member
Aug 13, 2017
2,372
2,655
Camas, Washington
You're a presumably new Tesla owner so you don't really understand the frustration. The initial hype, let down, and controversy were striking.

If I had never driven a Tesla and knew nothing, and bought an AP2 Model S today, I'd be satisfied with the purchase.

However, having put down a deposit Oct. 2016 and passing on $50,000 cheaper AP1 cars then being lied to about AP2 and paying an extra $10,000 for that privilege, then dealing with zero AP capability for months, then garbage, then finally something that sorta works, well......it's a different situation and feeling.

And FSD? Not sure how they can in good conscience not give me a refund.
I understand your frustration.
I am having so much fun driving this amazing technology, I try not to get bogged down with buyer’s remorse... Life is too short.
I also purchased FSD.
I felt that they could not necessarily predict what future hardware would be required for certification. Like the hardware that has ability to communicate with other autonomous vehicles, etc. so, I was banking on Tesla upgrading my hardware as required at no charge.
Maybe my assumption about purchasing the self driving option wasn’t such a bad idea after all. Excerpt from article below...

“He (Elon Musk) said if regulators require a level of safety unachievable by current hardware, the company will replace onboard computers for those who have already purchased the Full Self Driving option.”

Tesla Says Autopilot Hardware News Coming Soon

November 2, 2017
Tesla CEO Elon Musk said again Wednesday that he believes the automaker’s current hardware for its Autopilot system is sufficient for achieving full autonomy. Still, he teased that there will be “more on the hardware front soon.”

In a letter to shareholders, Tesla said Autopilot will soon experience a rapid rollout of additional functionality.

“Now that the foundation of the Tesla vision neural net is right, which was an exceptionally difficult problem, as it must fit into far less computing power than is typically used, we expect a rapid rollout of additional functionality over the next several months and are progressing rapidly towards our goal of a coast-to-coast drive with no one touching the controls.”
That dream of a vehicle with full-self-driving capability is being pursued largely through advances in artificial intelligence. According to the shareholder letter:

“The Tesla AI team, which is fundamental to achieving full autonomy, strengthened dramatically this year, with a number of the world’s best AI engineers and researchers joining our company. We plan to continue building Tesla AI until it is one of the best teams in the world, not just in automotive, where Tesla is already the leader, but across all industries. This applies to both software and hardware.”
Tesla recently appointed accomplished AI researcher Andrej Karpathy as the head of AI and Autopilot vision.

The company has yet to give a clear timeline as to when it expects to achieve full self-driving capability. Still, it sells a “Full Self-Driving” option that it will enable for purchasers once complete and regulatory compliant.

Musk noted that he’s confident full autonomy is possible with current hardware, but regulators could require a safety standard greater than “approximate human level.” He said it’s possible autonomous capability will need to be a hundred or thousand times safer than human capability to receive endorsement from regulators.

He said if regulators require a level of safety unachievable by current hardware, the company will replace onboard computers for those who have already purchased the Full Self Driving option.

“I’m certain our hardware strategy is better than any other option,” Musk said.
 

SucreTease

Teslarian
Jul 11, 2017
698
1,041
Huntsville, Alabama
One hour out on the road and as I walked out the door it stopped and I got precisely ONE wipe out of the autowipers. Sigh, I'll try again later :p
Oh, so you weren't aware of the "Enhanced Auto Wipers" (EAW) feature, which makes it stop raining? Sometimes, admittedly, it takes two wipes to complete; but usually, as you observed, it will accomplish that in one.
 

conman

Active Member
Aug 19, 2017
1,436
2,131
Melbourne, Australia
Oh, so you weren't aware of the "Enhanced Auto Wipers" (EAW) feature, which makes it stop raining? Sometimes, admittedly, it takes two wipes to complete; but usually, as you observed, it will accomplish that in one.
Sure I knew about the Enhanced Auto Wipers, but I'm still not sure if it will be able to do Full Self Wipe with only wipers and cameras. I'm quite sure it will need Laser Integrated Detection of Ambient Rain.

So I went back to pick up my car (it was actually in the service centre) and finally got some wildly variable rain on the way back. Some light sprinkles of very fine droplets, some constant rain, some intermittent fat droplets and a downpour. Overall it behaved about what I would have expected for a first beta release. It's pretty ordinary. Setting 1 was close to useless as virtually everyone else on this thread has attested to. The very fine droplets it actually ignored. The intermittent rain it wiped at a reasonable intermittent frequency but then when new droplets stopped coming it stopped wiping entirely and would always leave the windscreen full of droplets that were just below its threshold. This was probably the most annoying part and happened at most traffic lights. The continuous rain it seemed very reluctant to ever break into a continuous wipe mode. I've read the explanation in the update over and over and I'm not convinced it is meant only for intermittent rain - no autowipers are. it should be able to get to a decent constant wipe rate. Oh well, as predicted I used it no matter how bad it was and it didn't impress me as much as I'd hoped but for a first release, and knowing it will (hopefully) keep getting better so I'm reasonably happy.
 

lunitiks

Cool James & Black Teacher
Nov 19, 2016
2,698
5,939
Prawn Island, VC
Some light sprinkles of very fine droplets, some constant rain, some intermittent fat droplets and a downpour.
iK4FTmm_d.jpg
 
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don123

Member
Mar 29, 2017
84
162
Fergus, Ontario, Canada
You can stop AP2 from darting to the side at the crest of a rise in a straight two-lane road if you reduce your speed. The sharper the crest, the slower you have to go. I had to go as low as 40 kph in an 80 kph zone. (No one was on my tail.) Apparently the HW2 computer is too slow. :(

I quite like Tess with her 50.3 brain job. :)
 

mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
12,865
37,837
Michigan
Sure I knew about the Enhanced Auto Wipers, but I'm still not sure if it will be able to do Full Self Wipe with only wipers and cameras. I'm quite sure it will need Laser Integrated Detection of Ambient Rain.

So I went back to pick up my car (it was actually in the service centre) and finally got some wildly variable rain on the way back. Some light sprinkles of very fine droplets, some constant rain, some intermittent fat droplets and a downpour. Overall it behaved about what I would have expected for a first beta release. It's pretty ordinary. Setting 1 was close to useless as virtually everyone else on this thread has attested to. The very fine droplets it actually ignored. The intermittent rain it wiped at a reasonable intermittent frequency but then when new droplets stopped coming it stopped wiping entirely and would always leave the windscreen full of droplets that were just below its threshold. This was probably the most annoying part and happened at most traffic lights. The continuous rain it seemed very reluctant to ever break into a continuous wipe mode. I've read the explanation in the update over and over and I'm not convinced it is meant only for intermittent rain - no autowipers are. it should be able to get to a decent constant wipe rate. Oh well, as predicted I used it no matter how bad it was and it didn't impress me as much as I'd hoped but for a first release, and knowing it will (hopefully) keep getting better so I'm reasonably happy.

Request to yourself and others, when you have the really light mist/ rain the auto wipe ignores, would you mind taking a quick look at the windshield from the outside to see if the camera heaters are keeping the sensor area of the glass free from droplets? (They could also be very short lived)

Regarding lack of steady wipe, I wonder if the rain validation time is just slightly longer than the time for the wiper to return to the park position. This is something that can be tuned in SW by adding a smoothing filter after the raw wipe/no-wipe signal (although good luck to them in finding parameters people all like).
 

BlueRocket

S90D HW3.0 upgrade MCU1 "FSD" 2020.48.37.1
Feb 5, 2017
282
492
New Jersey
Finally had the car out in the rain today. We are having light to moderate rain and both settings worked great. Started quickly once I pulled out of the garage and wiped at what I would call a good pace while it rained. I tried AS on the local highway and some well marked local roads and it was flawless. I really like how 50.3 performs except for the line hugging on wide curves. Getting there...
 
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