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2017 FRT Renewal

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by DITB, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. waidy

    waidy Member

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    I wonder what can we do now to influence the law makers to revisit and wave the Electric Vehicle First Registration Tax in the future (i.e. from April 1, 2018 and forward). Does Hong Kong Government accept partitions? There are several websites allow people to create partitions for people interested in the subject to sign. Or, any suggestion?
     
  2. canon

    canon Member

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    Obviously, the reason given was crap as FRT of ICE had not been increased at the same time. Instead of thinking that the policy is helping government to make money, who benefit the most financially from the policy!
     
  3. Captain_Kong

    Captain_Kong Member

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    The budget would need a parliamentary vote (mostly procedural and a rubber stamp) in order to become laws.

    One of the possible ways to POTENTIALLY change the outcome of the vote is to generate a very public debate on the topic in order to force the govt. to reconsider.

    A few suggestions:
    - I'd love to see how the govt. explains and demonstrates through evidence that by taxing the EVs (which is mainly driven by replacement) would help to achieve its policy objective of lower the growth / overall vehicle population in HK. This begs the question - what drives the incremental demand for additional vehicles in HK!? Should this be controlled or taxed heavily (instead of the ineffective replacement demand) if you want to slow vehicle population growth?
    - Full disclosure on what the ICEs / petrochem companies have discussed with the select govt. officials on this topic (can anyone request this govt. record?)

    Can Tesla / Elon help?
     
  4. waidy

    waidy Member

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    Can anyone request for a public debate ? Who hosts the debate ? Is there a deadline (when will the current vote goes to law)?
     
  5. Captain_Kong

    Captain_Kong Member

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    Perhaps you may want to check with the parliamentary secretary's office for more precise answers? I think the budgetary vote is a series of sessions over a period of time, typically to be held in the next 2-3 months, but not sure when the bill on the EV tax will be debated and the vote to be held. What it takes (in my view) is for a parliamentarian to stand up with a detailed analysis about the car population and growth in HK to refute the rubbish excuse made by the govt. and more importantly, demand a full disclosure of what the govt. has discussed with the ICEs and petrochem lobbyists.

    One thing to bear in mind though, given that Tesla doesn't spend any $$$ on advertisement or marketing, you can forget about any mainstream medias for drumming up a healthy debate. So far, the media's editorial opinions on this topic is muted.

    There is a small hope this could be voted down or changed - recalled a few years back, when the govt. proposed in the budge for a govt. sponsored injection into tax payers' MPF accounts, this was subsequently changed to a cash handout instead due to strong public opinion.
     
  6. mattse

    mattse Member

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    Like what miimura pointed out, the Germany incentive is about the base price while the HK FRT is about the total price

    If my memory serves me right, you have to pay tax for options enabled after delivery too and there is no loophole for this as you can't enable anything legally without going through Tesla HK. Tesla could not help you evade this or they will get themselves into trouble. We don't have to pay FRT before so this is not a problem right now. In near future, the price will be different for anyone who choose to enable the exact same thing after delivery as the tax part will be different except for exactly same configuration
     
  7. mattse

    mattse Member

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    For public debate / partition, such thing does not really exist in HK. We have protest march attended by hundred of thousands for political issues, yes we are the expert in peaceful protest march. Usually nothing will happen afterwards. And we have only a few thousand EV owners in HK, an even smaller number of EV / environmental enthusiasts...

    There was public consultation exercise for the policy address and budget, in fact Charged.HK has urged the government to renew the exemption for a further 3 years. But from previous experience when statistical information about public submissions was disclosed on controversial topics, while we may have many submissions by the general public, there are usually hundreds more submissions by the companies from the same group or with the same finanical interest against the public. For EV FRT, if the ICE companies wish to do something, they can easily outnumber us by a factor of 10 at least

    Further, like what Captain_Kong has said, the media is not going to do anything about this

    Having said all these, I believe we still have to voice our opinion
     
    • Informative x 1
  8. frangus6

    frangus6 Member

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    For those of you that ordered the Model 3 last year, would that constitute "order" be eligible for FRT waiver? Any guesses?
     
  9. FequalsMA

    FequalsMA Member

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    Hate to be a pessimist but I'm sceptical the reservation counts. Options and configurations aren't out at this point. It's only when an invoice (with date) is issued that vehicle purchases can be declared and those invoices won't read 2016
     
  10. HKSpud

    HKSpud Member

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    Nope it doesn't... even a deposit doesn't count... you must take delivery of the vehicle and pay in full
     
  11. Optic

    Optic Member

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    You need to order before 11am Feb 22nd to be exempt. As long as you placed deposit for your order and Tesla can pull a time stamp, they can fill in a form for exemption even if you take ownership AFTER march 31st.. The $10k HKD we paid for model 3 is only for a reservation, so that won't count.
     
  12. mattse

    mattse Member

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    Anyone know if new inventory for model X is still available from Tesla showroom? My friend wishes to replace his ICEs with a model X but he took too long to make the decision..... According to tesla.com, there is no more new inventory in HK, any chance he can try his luck in showroom? (he lives a bit far from any showroom and it would be nice to know the situation before he drives to one)
     
  13. Optic

    Optic Member

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    According to sellers on 28car, there are no more inventory left that can be delivered by March 31st. His best bet is to pay the premium on 28car which goes from any where $100k to $300k on top of stick price. Or maybe some people will just part with their reservation if they can't finance it accordingly.
     
  14. frangus6

    frangus6 Member

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  15. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    After a debate, there was a non-binding vote in Legco yesterday. The majority of councilors voted in favour of retaining a full FRT waiver for Electric Vehicles in Hong Kong (ie; against the government proposal and against the cap). Of course, it is non-binding and can/will be ignored, but it sends a strong message to Government.

    Particularly interesting is the reasons that government is giving for introducing this cap just don't make sense, and the majority of legislative councils seem to agree. This measure doesn't solve the private car growth issue, it doesn't solve the environmental issues, and will certainly drastically hinder the transition to sustainable transportation in HK. It doesn't even protect the low-range, relatively low-cost, EVs that Government says it is intended to.

    Of course, a budget has never before been voted down by Legco, but there is a first time for everything.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. waidy

    waidy Member

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    Mark, thanks for the update. Who are the participants in the debate? What are they going to do with the outcome ?
     
  17. frangus6

    frangus6 Member

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    Mark, thanks for the info. Hope it really gets voted down Legco and we can retain the full FRT waiver for electric cars.
     
  18. garethmchau

    garethmchau Member

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    Here is the Legco agenda item discussed http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr16-17/english/panels/ea/papers/ea20170227cb1-574-4-e.pdf

    The argument put forward in the paper:

    "In recent years, the licensed[4] private car fleet has been growing substantially, a 13% increase between 1 January 2014 and 31 December 2016, being an average of 4.1% per year. As at end 2016, private cars accounted for 73% of the entire vehicle fleet. While electric private cars account for just 7.3% of the first registered[5] private cars in 2016, its rapid growth in the past few years has become a cause for concern in the Government’s endeavour to rein in the growth of private cars. Partly because of the advancement in the technology, electric private car manufacturers have been producing mass-market electric private car models with prices, reliability and driving performance that are increasingly competitive with those of conventional cars. For example, technological advancement in recent years has enabled the majority of electric private car models on the local market to be priced below $500,000 (with FRT waived). These electric private cars have a travel range of around 160 km or more after a full charge, meeting normal daily driving need of most local drivers. More manufacturers are expected to go down the same path to produce affordable models of electric private cars in coming years, leading to further increase of supply and market competition in the local market. This latest development calls for a good balance between promoting the use of electric private cars and stemming the excessive growth of the private car fleet, when considering the FRT concession for electric private cars after the expiry of the current waiver."

    The minutes of the debate will come out here probably in a few months by which time it is too late....

    Legislative Council of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region - Panel on Environmental Affairs (Meetings)
     
  19. garethmchau

    garethmchau Member

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    Actually Mark, is the above the meeting you were referring to? If so, here are the attendees:

    議程第 V 項 Agenda item V 推廣使用電動車 Promoting the use of electric vehicles
    陸恭蕙女士, JP 環境局副局長 Ms Christine LOH, JP Under Secretary for the Environment
    張趙凱渝女士, JP 環境保護署副署長(3) Mrs Alice CHEUNG, JP Deputy Director of Environmental Protection (3) Environmental Protection Department
    莫偉全先生, JP 環境保護署助理署長 (空氣質素 政策) Mr MOK Wai-chuen, JP Assistant Director (Air Policy) Environmental Protection Department
    何德賢先生 環境保護署首席環境保護主任 (流動污染源) Mr Dave HO Principal Environmental Protection Officer (Mobile Source) Environmental Protection Department
    梁張雪玫女士 運輸署首席行政主任 (牌照電腦 計劃及牌照事務) Mrs Lilian LEUNG Principal Executive Officer (VALID & Licensing) Transport Department
    林超宇先生 運輸署總工程師/運輸策劃 Mr Alfred LAM Chief Engineer/Transport Planning Transport Department
     
  20. mattse

    mattse Member

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    That's bad...
    EV is meant for green transport and self use, unlike those super sports cars which are meant for other purposes including investment. I would advise him (and anyone) not to pay (and encourage) those cunning jerks who speculate in FRT of EV...

    Thank you for the info
     

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