2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

[Bobfitz1]

I've put him/her on the ignore button so see only those complaining or responding. Have you reported this behavior? I'll take a look at the record of complaints. Audie is the guy you have to convince.

Indeed, they get frustrated by the meaningless noise and end up moving on. Meanwhile the trolls get exactly what they want and remain.

@Intl Professor, could you please discuss with Audie banning the two major TMC trolls?
I'd point out that the member option to ignore did not prevent a number of valued members from leaving TMC. Losing such members makes the forum less than it could and should be. Thanks.

 

[AlMc]

@Intl Professor, could you please discuss with Audie banning the two major TMC trolls?
I'd point out that the member option to ignore did not prevent a number of valued members from leaving TMC. Losing such members makes the forum less than it could and should be. Thanks.

My understanding is that only Doug can permanently ban someone. Best to take your issues to him directly IMO.

Edit: This is certainly just one person's opinion: I have no problem with 'myusername'. I don't usually agree with him. I don't even read 'mmd' posts anymore. Totally negative/FUD. I don't have anyone on 'ignore' but essentially I do ignore his posts. IMO, he brings nothing to the conversation.

 

[TrendTrader007]

IMHO the moment a poster starts to insinuate Telsa is intentionally telling lies and is misleading customers and shareholders and even repeatedly talks bad about someone of the Tesla management, that poster overstayed his welcome. It does not fit the culture on this forum.

TMC should be carefull as doing nothing might be seen as an invite of some of the posters on the TSLA part of the SA forum to start posting their rubbish here.
We will see highly respected posters moving somewhere else if that happens.

Very true. I rarely go to SA anymore for the same reason

 

[ValueAnalyst]

Just posted: Model 3 Production Rate Poll

 

[dc_h]

Interesting reddit thread. Seems to be a potential topic of interest and why banning won’t work, only discipline of other forum members to not get pulled into rabbit holes.

The Chevron Tapes: Video Shows Oil Giant Allegedly Covering Up Amazon Contamination • r/worldnews

 

[JRP3]

These are just a few annoying people intent on derailing threads. We can ban them, and keep banning them when they come back, instead of letting them run amok.

 

[elasalle]

These are just a few annoying people intent on derailing threads. We can ban them, and keep banning them when they come back, instead of letting them run amok.

In a few months with M3 ramp, FUD will not matter ... the days are numbered.

Till then ..
Add FUDsters to ignore list
Don't reply to FUD adds more noise

If there are some who are convinced to sell their shares due to FUD, so be it, they shouldn't be long Tesla without doing their own homework.

Note. sometimes it is fun just rubbing the FUDsters with facts

Cheers!! looking forward to Monday

 

[Off Shore]

Note. sometimes it is fun just rubbing the FUDsters with facts

NB fun for you.

 

[avoigt]

interesting presentation about the Semi from Jerome Guillen in NL

Quote: The Tesla Semi will carry the same cargo as a Diesel....!

So, here we go. It was speculated that the Batteries will "eat" the cargo given the weight of the Batteries. Tesla is now official making clear the Semi will have THE SAME Cargo as a Diesel Truck.

 

[TradingInvest]

Most of us live in a society that values free speech. We can't just say "Let's ban XYZ".
On the other hand, it's highly incentivized for shorts to troll this board with large amount of FUD. We need a method to identify and ban this effort.

I suggest we ban those who meet the following conditions:
1. They received more than 500 negative votes and
2. They received more negative than positive votes by a factor of 2:1

They would be banned from posting in the two main threads, but they are allowed to start their own threads, so their voice still can be heard.

 

[CorneliusXX]

After watching Jerome's video, it seems strange that no diesel semi provider thought to reduce the CD to anywhere near Tesla. Surely this small change would completely redefine the economics between the Tesla truck and Diesel.

Am i wrong to think that a Diesel truck with the same CD as Tesla would be competitive on cost?

 

[elasalle]

NB fun for you.

All in ignore list (since last 3 weeks), so doesn't matter to me

 

[anticitizen13.7]

In a few months with M3 ramp, FUD will not matter ... the days are numbered.

Till then ..
Add FUDsters to ignore list
Don't reply to FUD adds more noise

If there are some who are convinced to sell their shares due to FUD, so be it, they shouldn't be long Tesla without doing their own homework.

Keep in mind that the FUD is sitewide and not limited to the investors forum.

Ignoring FUDsters generally is a bad idea. Russia spread lots of FUD during US elections last year, and continues to spread FUD on fossil fuel and climate change issues via propaganda outlets like RT. The problem with ignoring entities that spread FUD is that people who aren’t experts in a subject will start to believe the FUD if it’s repeated enough.

Most of us live in a society that values free speech. We can't just say "Let's ban XYZ".
On the other hand, it's highly incentivized for shorts to troll this board with large amount of FUD. We need a method to identify and ban this effort.

I’m a participant in several other car forums (non-Tesla), and trolling is common. However, site admins are generally quick to shut down trolls, because message boards become unpleasant and even useless if trolls are allowed to persist.

Banning exchange of ideas isn’t what should be aimed for. Banning substantively empty insinuation and bullying is consistent with protecting free speech.

 

[sub]

We are not suppose to talk about this topic but since everyone else is I'll chime in. I have a long ignore list, I don't like trolls and I don't like negative nellies. You mean things may not go as planned? Gee, thanks for harping on that day in and day out.....no thanks.

I don't make my investing decisions based on what is said on TMC alone, I bought my initial TSLA shares before I knew this forum existed. I do come here for enjoyment and entertainment.

I wish everyone would learn that there is no changing the trolls minds or "beating" them in an argument, they don't care about facts and truth. Stop responding to them and they will eventually get bored or assume everyone has them on ignore and leave.

 

[30seconds]

In a few months with M3 ramp, FUD will not matter ... the days are numbered.

The noise about the Roadster being impossible, the Semi having lackluster demand, this event was a Ponzi scheme to raise money, and, just you wait, Mercedes is already far ahead has already started.

Facts aren’t particularly salient to stop this nonsense. There is always something to move on to.

Although I do wonder how this shifts when Tesla becomes close / at cash flow neutral. Probably they will just go on about profits (while ignoring investments for growth).

 

[MitchJi]

BMW is selling its stake in SGL carbon fiber joint venture

The material was once heralded as the future of lightweight, fuel-efficient cars, but has proved expensive.

Several carmakers teamed up with specialist companies to push advances in carbon fiber manufacturing in recent years, in a drive for lighter cars that consume less fuel or, if they are battery-powered, can drive for longer on a full charge.

But a problem they have faced is that while carbon fiber is stiffer and lighter than aluminum, it is more expensive.

______________________________________________________________________


Not too long ago many TMCers were nervous about BMW racing ahead of Tesla because BMW was incorporating Carbon Fibre while Tesla was stuck in old school aluminum.

The carmaker said in a statement on Friday that carbon fiber would still remain a significant part of its material mix and that it would continue to cooperate with SGL on future projects even after selling its 49 percent stake in joint venture SGL Automotive Carbon Fibers (ACF).

The deal has no impact on existing supply agreements for the material's use in the BMW i3, the BMW i8, and the BMW 7 series, the two companies said. BMW will also hold onto its roughly 18 percent stake in SGL Group.


SGL Group acquires BMW Group's minority interest in the joint venture SGL Automotive Carbon Fibers (SGL ACF)

The BMW Group has entered into an agreement with SGL Group to continue to work together on future projects involving the use of carbon.

The BMW Group will continue to rely on lightweight construction and an intelligent mix of materials, with carbon remaining a significant component,” explains Markus Duesmann, member of the Board of Management at BMW AG with responsibility for purchasing and supplier network. Carbon will also play an important role in the BMW iNEXT, which will set the benchmark for electric vehicles, autonomous driving, connectivity, and lightweight construction from 2021. “SGL Group is and will remain a major supplier and strategic partner in this regard,” adds Duesmann.

The existing supply agreements for the continued procurement of carbon products from SGL ACF for the BMW i3, the BMW i8 (fuel consumption combined: 2.1 l/100 km [134.5 mpg imp]*; CO2 emissions combined: 49.0 g/km*), and the BMW 7 series into the next decade are unaffected by the transaction. Likewise, BMW Group's CFRP-stacks production unit in Wackersdorf will not be affected. Furthermore, the transaction will not impact BMW AG's 18.3% shareholding in SGL Carbon SE. This equity investment is not up for disposal.

The agreement between SGL Group and BMW Group provides for the acquisition of the two SGL ACF companies in stages. In the first step, SGL Automotive Carbon Fibers GmbH & Co. KG (Germany) will be transferred to SGL Group. This transaction will probably be completed in January 2018. The second step will involve SGL Automotive Carbon Fibers LLC (US) being transferred to SGL Group, with this transaction expected to be completed by the end of 2020 at the latest.

The SGL ACF joint venture was founded in 2009 with the aim of establishing the use of carbon as a lightweight construction material in the automotive industry and securing the supply of carbon fibers and fabrics for BMW Group. Since then, SGL Group and BMW Group have created a leading technological position in the field of carbon fiber composites with their joint development activities and the construction of two plants. The possibility of SGL Group acquiring BMW Group's shares was already agreed as an option back when the joint venture was founded. Accordingly, 51% of the shares were allocated to SGL Group and 49% to BMW Group at that time.

 

[30seconds]

The new hotness from Munich. A good reminder of what the Model 3 will lay waste to.

MotorTrend really liked the new BMW 230i, but it is remarkable how a $34k car gets to $48k.

2017 BMW 230i First Test Review: Back to the Future - Motor Trend

"Were it ours to build and live with, starting with the $34,145 base price, we’d definitely opt for the $2,300 Track Handling package because it does nothing to reduce the ride comfort while truly enhancing performance. We might skip the aluminum interior trim ($350), Oyster Dakota leather ($1,450), and wireless charging ($500). However, nearly all of the other options on our test car’s considerable tally feel pretty vital to the enjoyment and livability of this particular 230i. Because heated front seats ($500 as a stand-alone option) are also marital aids, you might as well get the Cold Weather package ($700), which includes them plus a heated steering wheel and headlamp washers for an extra $200. They come standard on some economy cars, so it’s outrageous to pay extra for a rearview camera and parking sensors in the poorly named Driving Assistance package ($950) that should be called Parking Assistance, but we would. Coughing up $2,950 for a universal garage door opener, intelligent key with push button start, moonroof, power front seats with lumbar, ambient lighting, and satellite radio, all of which are contained in the Premium package, would be OK with us. Navigation for $1,950, Xenon headlamps for $900, and $875 for the Harman/Kardon audio upgrade seem fair, but $300 for Apple CarPlay doesn’t. All told, the car as it sits is $48,070."

 

[MitchJi]

IMO it makes no sense to invest in any company if you don't trust management's ability to execute. That is especially true with a company growing as fast as Tesla, which has many irons in the fire, most of which are not yet mature.
Trusting Elon's and Tesla's management ability to deliver results has been very lucrative for long-term shareholders over the years. There is no guarantee that will continue, but given the incredible, game-changing products in multiple industries they have developed over the past couple years, I personally have never felt better about my TSLA investment than I do right now.
I am looking forward to Tesla tackling the production challenges ahead and getting these products onto the market in large volumes.

Tesla does still have a problem with production. I believe that they will not only solve those problems, but that they will meet Elon’s goal of becoming a leader in manufacturing.

Definitely an advice.

The bear opinion is obviously the opposite.

 

[MitchJi]

My understanding is that only Doug can permanently ban someone. Best to take your issues to him directly IMO.

Edit: This is certainly just one person's opinion: I have no problem with 'myusername'. I don't usually agree with him. I don't even read 'mmd' posts anymore. Totally negative/FUD. I don't have anyone on 'ignore' but essentially I do ignore his posts. IMO, he brings nothing to the conversation.

The problem is that the replies to both of them detract from the forum in a substantial way!

 

[Esme Es Mejor]

Most of us live in a society that values free speech.

Freedom of speech is only an issue when government bans someone from speaking. In that case, a person would have leave the country in order to speak freely— very difficult to do, and impossible for some. Any poster banned from TMC could very easily post on SAome other forum, or start their own. Their freedom to express themselves is not actually limited.

The issue here is freedom of association. On one hand, community members shouldn’t have to associate with members who constantly degrade and diminish the community with their actions. On the other hand, tolerating dissenting views makes for a healthier and more thoughtful community.

Whether a poster falls on the dissent side of things, or the degradation side of things, is ultimately up to the owner of the forum. If the owner makes the wrong judgment, community members can vote with their feet by leaving.

Like building cars, building communities is hard.