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There needs to be a "I don't like this post, because I don't WANT it to be true, but it is" button. Everyone clicking the disagree button, but not a single person saying which part they disagree with. You can't disagree with the entire post because most of it is facts.
You must realize that the post is mostly opinion.

We get it you think the X is a failure and a mistake. You also think (incorrectly) that it was delayed for 2 years because of the doors.

People dislike your posts because they mix little bits of data with incorrect statements and poorly supported opinions presented as fact. It's tiresome.
 
We get it you think the X is a failure and a mistake. You also think (incorrectly) that it was delayed for 2 years because of the doors.

You must either be new to Tesla or not have a very good memory. Either way, a little research will show you that I stated a FACT and it is 100% correct.

"Okay…now if we flashback even further, to say 2012, we see that the initial promised “Late 2013” launch of the Model X came and went. So too did the early 2014 deliveries."

Tesla Model X Delayed

"Ironically, those superior doors are the very things that have caused a series of delays on the Model X."

This from May 8th 2014:
".... suggested that the company faced challenges with how well the door “seals, keeping out rain, wind and road noise.” Musk said, “It's quite a difficult sealing problem to really get it right" and make sure the doors work properly for years."

Strange that nothing but the doors were mentioned for the cause of the delay.

Tesla Model X:Not a Model Launch
 
The Seeking Alpha Tesla 4th Quarter earnings call transcript is the 'official' transcript of the call on the internet. It is being directly linked to by most media organizations including Nasdaq and CNBC, and the one that comes up when any investor searches google for it.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/404...-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single

It containts the following (I believe intentional) errors:


Regarding the need to raise capital for the launch of Model 3:

Seeking Alpha transcribes:
"According to our financial plan, capital needs to be raised for the Model 3"
-Elon Musk

Musk actually says:
"According to our financial plan, no capital needs to be raised for the Model 3"

Here are some examples of articles based entirely on this misquote.

Tesla, Inc: Likely to Raise Capital Soon -- The Motley Fool

Tesla tumbles as Goldman Sachs downgrades stock on Model 3 concerns

Tesla Plans 3 More Gigafactories


Regarding the likelihood of UAW unionizing Freemont:

Seeking Alpha transcribes:
"This is likely to occur"
-Elon Musk

Musk actually says:
"I don't think this is likely to occur"
 
If Kauai is PW2, then batteries were manufactured in GF... meaning no COGS for batteries in 2016 (and no revenue either) making @vgrinshpun and my back-and-forth without subject. Negative gross margin for Tesla Energy Storage in 2016Q4 confirmed..

Confirmation bias at it's best. No PW at Kaui - PowerPacks. According to Fortune pictures PowerPacks were at Site on or before November 17 2016. Nothing is confirmed. This is getting ridiculous.
 
The Seeking Alpha Tesla 4th Quarter earnings call transcript is the 'official' transcript of the call on the internet. It is being directly linked to by most media organizations including Nasdaq and CNBC, and the one that comes up when any investor searches google for it.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/404...-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single

It containts the following (I believe intentional) errors:


Regarding the need to raise capital for the launch of Model 3:

Seeking Alpha transcribes:
"According to our financial plan, capital needs to be raised for the Model 3"
-Elon Musk

Musk actually says:
"According to our financial plan, no capital needs to be raised for the Model 3"

Here are some examples of articles based entirely on this misquote.

Tesla, Inc: Likely to Raise Capital Soon -- The Motley Fool

Tesla tumbles as Goldman Sachs downgrades stock on Model 3 concerns

Tesla Plans 3 More Gigafactories


Regarding the likelihood of UAW unionizing Freemont:

Seeking Alpha transcribes:
"This is likely to occur"
-Elon Musk

Musk actually says:
"I don't think this is likely to occur"
Wow, those are some serious misquotes. Thanks for alerting us.
 
Electrek green energy brief: Amazon going big solar, 3 million advanced energy jobs, Military continuing its green march, more
snip:
"Two reason I like sharing articles about the US Military doing green related technologies – 1. If the military is greening it will help the CO2 situation as the US Military might be the single largest energy user on the planet. Yes, I know many in the military are only greening because it makes them a more efficient killing machine, but I’ll take what I can get."

A teaching moment lost -
Greening would make the military a LESS efficient killing machine;
Their intended killing is no match for the exhaust of their intent


MIT Study: Vehicle Emissions Cause 58,000 Premature Deaths Yearly in U.S.

"As troubling as these findings are, they’re not too far out of line with other research on the topic. In 2010, the EPA estimated that there were 160,000 premature deaths due to fine particle pollution alone. An additional 4,300 deaths were attributed to ozone pollution.

Meanwhile, the World Health Organization recently added air pollution to its list of carcinogens. The WHO’s determination comes from experts at its International Agency for Research on Cancer, who, after reviewing thousands of studies, concluded air pollution could be linked to both lung and bladder cancer"
 
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Confirmation bias at it's best. No PW at Kaui - PowerPacks. According to Fortune pictures PowerPacks were at Site on or before November 17 2016. Nothing is confirmed. This is getting ridiculous.

You mean packs where the COGS could equally likely have been accounted for in Q3. This is indeed ridiculous. We only have the numbers. There are costs and corresponding revenue. You claim there is revenue coming down the line to turn it all around. Possibly but unlikely to me. We will re-evaluate in April when we get the Q1 numbers.
 
Wow, those are some serious misquotes. Thanks for alerting us.
it's Seeking Alfa. What did you expect? a correction?
I had to ask 2 of their editors about 6x if they have TSLA stock. one said no, other would not answer. 3rd one gave me a link to a form, a "non-answer"

My ethics office prior to retirement was extremely vigorous in getting such types of questions answered about my investments in anything vaguely related to work. (all trades in past year and ownership of more than nominal equities, easier to just not invest other than non related)
 
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Reactions: jhm and FredTMC
You claim there is revenue coming down the line to turn it all around.

That is not what I claimed. My claims are in my posts. No need to put words in my mouth.

Sorry? (Bold mine)

Between the two largest Tesla projects, Kauai Island and Mira Loma Substation, at least some revenue was not fully booked, while all cost were incurred during 2016. Not only it is plausible, it is almost certain.
 
The Seeking Alpha Tesla 4th Quarter earnings call transcript is the 'official' transcript of the call on the internet. It is being directly linked to by most media organizations including Nasdaq and CNBC, and the one that comes up when any investor searches google for it.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/404...-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single

It containts the following (I believe intentional) errors:


Regarding the need to raise capital for the launch of Model 3:

Seeking Alpha transcribes:
"According to our financial plan, capital needs to be raised for the Model 3"
-Elon Musk

Musk actually says:
"According to our financial plan, no capital needs to be raised for the Model 3"

Here are some examples of articles based entirely on this misquote.

Tesla, Inc: Likely to Raise Capital Soon -- The Motley Fool

Tesla tumbles as Goldman Sachs downgrades stock on Model 3 concerns

Tesla Plans 3 More Gigafactories


Regarding the likelihood of UAW unionizing Freemont:

Seeking Alpha transcribes:
"This is likely to occur"
-Elon Musk

Musk actually says:
"I don't think this is likely to occur"

Post truth era....
 
"You claim there is revenue coming down the line to turn it all around."

Is not the same as what I actually posted: "Between the two largest Tesla projects, Kauai Island and Mira Loma Substation, at least some revenue was not fully booked, while all cost were incurred during 2016. Not only it is plausible, it is almost certain."

Give it a rest.
 
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Reactions: Turing and dhrivnak
There is no need to wait for the next quarter. Between the two largest Tesla projects, Kauai Island and Mira Loma Substation, at least some revenue was not fully booked, while all cost were incurred during 2016. Not only it is plausible, it is almost certain. You just do not want to acknowledge it because it does not fit your bearish view on TE. We will have to register our disagreement here and move on.

If the projects haven't been completed they can't be accounted for in COGS according to US-GAAP. COGS always represent the costs associated to the revenues you show in a given period. Showing COGS in 2016 and the associated revenues in 2017 unfortunately doesn't fit that definition. If parts of the project have been finished though in 2016 and have been working, revenues and COGS for that part have been recognized in 2016.

I'm actually bullish and long TSLA.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: mmd and dennis
You must either be new to Tesla or not have a very good memory. Either way, a little research will show you that I stated a FACT and it is 100% correct.

"Okay…now if we flashback even further, to say 2012, we see that the initial promised “Late 2013” launch of the Model X came and went. So too did the early 2014 deliveries."

Tesla Model X Delayed

"Ironically, those superior doors are the very things that have caused a series of delays on the Model X."

This from May 8th 2014:
".... suggested that the company faced challenges with how well the door “seals, keeping out rain, wind and road noise.” Musk said, “It's quite a difficult sealing problem to really get it right" and make sure the doors work properly for years."

Strange that nothing but the doors were mentioned for the cause of the delay.

Tesla Model X:Not a Model Launch
I'm going to go ahead and place you on ignore now, because as so many have pointed out, your posts are just useless.

However before I do, know that you are incorrect. A large portion of the delays from the original date we on purpose and happened because S did so much better than expected. The doors and seats (you cherry picked to leave out any comments about the seats causing delays, cause that's what you do) added about 6 months of delay.

I won't miss your posts, I certainly won't miss trying to educate someone with the conversation skills of a brick wall with a hole shaped like a mouth. You truly are among the worst of our generation, and people like you are so much to blame for people's inability to learn, to handle disagreement, and to generally get along. I sincerely hope you become a better person at some point though I admit that it's more for others than for you.

Bye Felicia.
 
You must either be new to Tesla or not have a very good memory. Either way, a little research will show you that I stated a FACT and it is 100% correct.

"Okay…now if we flashback even further, to say 2012, we see that the initial promised “Late 2013” launch of the Model X came and went. So too did the early 2014 deliveries."

Tesla Model X Delayed

"Ironically, those superior doors are the very things that have caused a series of delays on the Model X."

This from May 8th 2014:
".... suggested that the company faced challenges with how well the door “seals, keeping out rain, wind and road noise.” Musk said, “It's quite a difficult sealing problem to really get it right" and make sure the doors work properly for years."

Strange that nothing but the doors were mentioned for the cause of the delay.

Tesla Model X:Not a Model Launch

Two years is probably inaccurate, because they likely became ambitious and repositioned the X to be a major upgrade of S technology. Originally they were going to rush out an SUV because they were not confident on MS demand.

That is not saying I believe the model 3 release will go smoothly. I doubt they have the ability to maintain quality and scale production anywhere close to projections. My belief is due to the continuing fit and finish issue with the current cars. Getting current production correct is child's play compared to making 10,000 M3 per week with fairly good quality.

"Run the line faster" is about as likely as full self drive in the near future. I expect troubles before Tesla finally stabilizes with good production of the M3.
 
Two years is probably inaccurate, because they likely became ambitious and repositioned the X to be a major upgrade of S technology. Originally they were going to rush out an SUV because they were not confident on MS demand.

That is not saying I believe the model 3 release will go smoothly. I doubt they have the ability to maintain quality and scale production anywhere close to projections. My belief is due to the continuing fit and finish issue with the current cars. Getting current production correct is child's play compared to making 10,000 M3 per week with fairly good quality.

"Run the line faster" is about as likely as full self drive in the near future. I expect troubles before Tesla finally stabilizes with good production of the M3.

Preface: Please don't take this as an attack on your post, it was merely a convenient launching-point for things I've been mulling about for a bit in my mind.

Elon, is an engineer at heart, and that is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing side of it is he sees potential that others wouldn't be able to see. The downside is he might downplay the potential pitfalls. That said, he seems to learn from his mistakes quite well. I think that for Model 3, the learning experiences and pain from Model X left quite an impression on him. If you look at his obsession on the "machine that builds the machine" his current obsession isn't the car itself (which lead to Model X being too complex) but instead on the manufacturing process.

There are 3 major ways I can think of that a full speed production line can't scale well:
1. The car was not designed properly with the assembly process in mind.
2. The assembly line and its equipment were not designed to optimize production for the particular vehicle.
3. Automation is not fully utilized, making humans the weak link. (Often the biggest factor.)

On #1, Model X was and is the pain in Musk's side on what happens when you don't design a vehicle to be automated as much as possible. I suspect this will continue to be a pain point until the Model X receives a major redesign to resolve this. However, he learned his lesson for Model 3. The discussions regarding cutting wiring length in half and other items are easy to understand tidbits that he's throwing out to illustrate this.

On #2, the recent acquisition of Grohmann Engineering should assist on this. If your assembly process is limited by the certain kind of robots you have, then you're limited to a specific process. However if you can modify and get exactly the kind of robots that you want for your process, you're not limited to a certain function set or sensor set that a particular robot has. That's why Tesla got these guys.

On #3, typically in automotive manufacturing, your humans are handling very detail oriented tasks, such as interior installation, fit and finish operations, etc. Musk wants to automate as much as possible, and by having the M3 be very sparse as a whole on the interior, we minimize human labor. In fact, I suspect that the Model 3 will use the least amount of human labor for assembly compared to any comparably priced car in the US market.

I suspect however, that at least in 2017, Musk's expectations on deliveries will be a bit of an overshoot. I still expect 30-40k M3 deliveries in 2017. Considering the shorts don't expect anything more than 3-5k in 2017, this will be a boost, but they'll try to downplay it as "Tesla didn't hit their 70k mark blah blah." I expect in 2018 for the floodgates to open, and they really will deliver 150-180k M3 deliveries.

Disclosures: Elon fanboy and TSLA long.
 
If the projects haven't been completed they can't be accounted for in COGS according to US-GAAP. COGS always represent the costs associated to the revenues you show in a given period. Showing COGS in 2016 and the associated revenues in 2017 unfortunately doesn't fit that definition. If parts of the project have been finished though in 2016 and have been working, revenues and COGS for that part have been recognized in 2016.

I'm actually bullish and long TSLA.

This does not seem to be consistent with multiple times Tesla was explaining gross margin impact due to the fact that they could not recognize a particular type of revenue within a quarter.

The latest example from the Q4 letter is their explanation for the impact on the gross margin of the AP revenue that they were not able to recognize.
 
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