2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

[mmd]

Looks like there is nothing to talk about here in this bull chamber So many replies to a simple post.

OK, here you go:
@Curt Renz : Not many will bother to rewire their garages or install 240V chargers. Even less will go to the extent of building a new home just to charge their car.
BTW, Tesla is the only EV that can't be charged from household wall outlets and requires a $2400(?) upfront cost in special charger installation. I think, all other EVs & PHEVs can be charged from wall outlets.
BTW Curt, be careful over hyping the capabilities of Model 3 to your friends and families. If the features don't work out well, angry owners can come after you with pitch forks

EDIT: OK, it seems I was wrong about the 110V charging I remembered reading something along this line. May be, it was about free charging cord. Most other EVs come with free charge cord, but Tesla doesn't? I can't remember now.

@geneclean55 : Chargepoint stations are very expensive. That's why my workplace chose to go with other, cheaper options. I checked about their station a while ago. Please check, what's the cost of charging there. May be it's an upscale apartment for the 1%'rs where this works.

@dhrivnak: Yes, the extension cord heats up slowly and eventually the breaker trips. Especially if the battery is near empty. I could charge at 12 amps early on, but no more. I don't want to spend ANY money for the occasional charge. I'm getting enough free charge at work. As I showed earlier, charging at home here in California is as expensive (or more) as driving an efficient gas/hybrid car.

Others: Autonomously driving the car outside the city or far away to charge is a ridiculous idea. Think of the extra depreciation and lost charge for the unnecessary commute. And the unnecessary congestion and the extra pollution for generating the extra consumed electricity. It's a losing proposition.

 

[SFOTurtle]

Looks like there is nothing to talk about here in this bull chamber So many replies to a simple post.

OK, here you go:
@Curt Renz : Not many will bother to rewire their garages or install 240V chargers. Even less will go to the extent of building a new home just to charge their car.
BTW, Tesla is the only EV that can't be charged from household wall outlets and requires a $2400(?) upfront cost in special charger installation. I think, all other EVs & PHEVs can be charged from wall outlets.
BTW Curt, be careful over hyping the capabilities of Model 3 to your friends and families. If the features don't work out well, angry owners can come after you with pitch forks

What on earth are you talking about?

I just spent the last two days in Carmel at a friend's house and charged my MS85 in his garage using a standard, household 110v wall outlet. I've done this every time I've visited this house over the past few years. In the rare instance when we're at home and one of our two MS is charging on our NEMA 14-50 outlet and we needed a few extra miles in a pinch overnight for the other MS, I've charged the other car on our wall outlet for anywhere from 10-12 hours straight on the 110 just to pick up another 40 rated miles.

Also, the cost of installing a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage was $500. I don't have any idea where you're getting this $2400 upfront cost nonsense. I have dozens of friends who have had this simple wiring done by any electrician for in and around the same cost.

Another example: We just did another road trip to the Pac NW last week to visit friends in Portland and Vancouver, B.C. In Vancouver, B.C., for any new residential construction or major remodel where the residence has a garage, a 240 outlet MUST be installed. I have a handful of good friends who are contractors, and to a person they said that in every new construction or major remodel where the house has a garage or dedicated carport, they have installed a 240 outlet of some kind.

 

[Yggdrasill]

@Curt Renz : Not many will bother to rewire their garages or install 240V chargers. Even less will go to the extent of building a new home just to charge their car.
BTW, Tesla is the only EV that can't be charged from household wall outlets and requires a $2400(?) upfront cost in special charger installation. I think, all other EVs & PHEVs can be charged from wall outlets.

You can charge a Tesla from a standard wall outlet in Europe (10A, 230V). Charging 8 hours a night and 300 days per year is sufficient for ~14,000 miles/year. Are you sure you can't use a standard outlet in the US? 110V, 20A is roughly equivalent to what we have in Europe.

Here in Norway, probably close to 95% of car owners will be able to install charging quite easily. 80% of the population live in detached or semi-detached single family dwellings, almost all of which have dedicated parking, most housing complexes also have dedicated parking and those who live in small apartments without dedicated parking tend to live so centrally that they only use public transportation. For those who have difficulty installing charging for their car, the eight hours of charging can also be done at work.

@dhrivnak: Yes, the extension cord heats up slowly and eventually the breaker trips. Especially if the battery is near empty. I could charge at 12 amps early on, but no more. I don't want to spend ANY money for the occasional charge. I'm getting enough free charge at work. As I showed earlier, charging at home here in California is as expensive (or more) as driving an efficient gas/hybrid car.

Extention cord works fine, as long as they are high quality. You need at least 2.5 mm^2 wire area for 10-16A, and you need to make sure it isn't damaged. Extension cords aren't recommended, but they aren't illegal either. (At least here in Europe.)

 

[larmor]

Looks like there is nothing to talk about here in this bull chamber So many replies to a simple post.

OK, here you go:
@Curt Renz : Not many will bother to rewire their garages or install 240V chargers. Even less will go to the extent of building a new home just to charge their car.
BTW, Tesla is the only EV that can't be charged from household wall outlets and requires a $2400(?) upfront cost in special charger installation. I think, all other EVs & PHEVs can be charged from wall outlets.
BTW Curt, be careful over hyping the capabilities of Model 3 to your friends and families. If the features don't work out well, angry owners can come after you with pitch forks

@geneclean55 : Chargepoint stations are very expensive. That's why my workplace chose to go with other, cheaper options. I checked about their station a while ago. Please check, what's the cost of charging there. May be it's an upscale apartment for the 1%'rs where this works.

@dhrivnak: Yes, the extension cord heats up slowly and eventually the breaker trips. Especially if the battery is near empty. I could charge at 12 amps early on, but no more. I don't want to spend ANY money for the occasional charge. I'm getting enough free charge at work. As I showed earlier, charging at home here in California is as expensive (or more) as driving an efficient gas/hybrid car.

Others: Autonomously driving the car outside the city or far away to charge is a ridiculous idea. Think of the extra depreciation and lost charge for the unnecessary commute. And the unnecessary congestion and the extra pollution for generating the extra consumed electricity. It's a losing proposition.

I was also dismayed that my dryer didn't plug into the standard outlet also, so now i just jerryrigged it to work in 110 v and wear damp clothes...

 

[SwTslaGrl]

We have 240V outlets at every parking space at work, it's common here for pre-heating cabin/engine on ICE cars. I'd be charging 200 hours/month from this outlet.

 

[kbeckley]

Interesting note from Tim Urban (waiwtbutwhy.com author) to his Patreon supporters. Here is a quote from the update:

"A few months ago, I took a break from the big project to write about SpaceX's Mars rocket. The post coincided with their unveiling of the rocket. And despite my attempt to stay focused on the big post, Elon is selfishly trying to change the world againnow with a whole new project. So I'm flying out to California tomorrow to meet with Elon and the engineers ... working on his new idea so I can get the full scoop on what they're doing. Then I'll write a little post about that, which will go up in a couple weeks (or whenever they announce it publicly). I tried to tell Elon to stop altering the course of humanity at such inconvenient times for me, but he didn't seem to care.".

Tim goes on to say he does not know what the new project is. Elon likes to keep busy it seems. Doubt whatever the project is it is directly Tesla related. Waitbutwhy.com is one of those places on the internet that reminds you the internet can be great.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Probably Boring.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Probably Boring.

Worm-hole Boring?

 

[AlMc]

TMC predicts oil companies will need to spend $320 Billion to expand their gasoline station network to compete with Tesla home charging!

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Utilizing Math pioneered by savant UBS analyst Colin Langan, the quants at TMC have calculated the Tesla Killer Advantage over the current, antiquated local gas stations when it comes to "fueling" vehicles. If the time to travel to the average gas station is 4 minutes, while the time to travel to your garage is 1 second, then Tesla home charging is 240 times more efficient/convenient than gas stations.

Red Tillerson, former Exxon CEO and current MIA Secretary of State, when asked to comment said, "Hell yea, that's why I took this gig, so I could divest myself of all that oil stock. You know how expensive it is to put in fuel tanks in every home in America? Hell, in some states to they don't even let you pump your own gas, so that means having an attendant sleeping in a tent on your lawn."

UBS analyst, Colin Langan, when asked to confirm the validity of the math, said, rather heatedly, "That comparison is specious....what person in their right mind would fuel at home, while sleeping in their bed? What self respecting Michigander would miss out on refueling in sub-zero weather? Can you buy Powerball Tickets or Kool Menthol cigarettes at home.....? I didn't think so! This whole home fueling thing is a fad, brought on by haters unfamiliar with the pleasure of visits to modern day convenience Meccas/gas stations. Have you tried the Sausage Biscuit Sandwich st Quick Trip? I didn't think you knew anything about things you pretend to "analyze". $320 Billion is Absurd!.....Are you gunning for my job?"

Stay tuned as Colin, Mark Spiegel, Steve Bannon and The Entire CNBC morning show get together for a panel discussion on creative uses for extrapolating numbers with no relationship to facts or statistical significance.

@Bgarret : ^^THIS^^ gets my early 2017 Oscar vote in the 'Best Posting on TMC' category.

 

[winfield100]

Looks like there is nothing to talk about here in this bull chamber So many replies to a simple post.

OK, here you go:

@dhrivnak: Yes, the extension cord heats up slowly and eventually the breaker trips. Especially if the battery is near empty. I could charge at 12 amps early on, but no more. I don't want to spend ANY money for the occasional charge. I'm getting enough free charge at work. As I showed earlier, charging at home here in California is as expensive (or more) as driving an efficient gas/hybrid car.

a simple comment.
I have a PHEV I have charged exclusively on 110v for 39 months (well, 2 -3 times on 220v at exorbitant rates). usually at 12 amps, sometime at 8 amps (excruciatingly slow, but the battery is full every day)
It has been a simple fix, at least for me to keep from "melting snow" with the extension cord.
(first used 2, 50ft ones from a GFI, then a 25ft one out a closer window)
1) use a dedicated circuit for extension cord (unplug everything else, duh)
2) use a brand new 10-12 guage cord from somewhere like harbor freight (~$35-40)(orange colored)
(the prongs are clean and not rust covered)(if you are really cheap, at least clean the damn prongs with steel wool)
3) replace the wall socket with a 20 amp capable, NEW socket
(place a hand on the wall plate and/or plug, helps to have 55+ years experience)(is it warm/discolored?)(you want good, clean connections like if you soldered them, but dont solder a wall socket or you will burn down the house)
4) while charging, if you smell a "burnt" odor, remember, are you/have you done above 3, because something is cascading failure mode
don't "cheap out" and wire your garage with 'daisy chained 16 guage thin extension cords" or you WILL burn the house down like a guy in Fairfax, Virginia, USA did a few years back, covering them with wall board to hide the work. A licensed electrician would have been cheaper

 

[jbcarioca]

TMC predicts oil companies will need to spend $320 Billion to expand their gasoline station network to compete with Tesla home charging!

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Utilizing Math pioneered by savant UBS analyst Colin Langan, the quants at TMC have calculated the Tesla Killer Advantage over the current, antiquated local gas stations when it comes to "fueling" vehicles. If the time to travel to the average gas station is 4 minutes, while the time to travel to your garage is 1 second, then Tesla home charging is 240 times more efficient/convenient than gas stations.

Red Tillerson, former Exxon CEO and current MIA Secretary of State, when asked to comment said, "Hell yea, that's why I took this gig, so I could divest myself of all that oil stock. You know how expensive it is to put in fuel tanks in every home in America? Hell, in some states to they don't even let you pump your own gas, so that means having an attendant sleeping in a tent on your lawn."

UBS analyst, Colin Langan, when asked to confirm the validity of the math, said, rather heatedly, "That comparison is specious....what person in their right mind would fuel at home, while sleeping in their bed? What self respecting Michigander would miss out on refueling in sub-zero weather? Can you buy Powerball Tickets or Kool Menthol cigarettes at home.....? I didn't think so! This whole home fueling thing is a fad, brought on by haters unfamiliar with the pleasure of visits to modern day convenience Meccas/gas stations. Have you tried the Sausage Biscuit Sandwich st Quick Trip? I didn't think you knew anything about things you pretend to "analyze". $320 Billion is Absurd!.....Are you gunning for my job?"

Stay tuned as Colin, Mark Spiegel, Steve Bannon and The Entire CNBC morning show get together for a panel discussion on creative uses for extrapolating numbers with no relationship to facts or statistical significance.

This is the most important post of the millennium thus far. Exxxon Mobil has tried valiantly to suppress this crucial information. Still, their new investments in shale oil are directly intended to reduce the costs by more than half to only $150 Billion through the local production and refining of petroleum. Thanks to the intervention of President Trump the costs have been reduced by half again to only $75 Billion, this advance by powering local electricity production with coal, unencumbered by onerous pollution controls. Note: personal gas masks, currently supplied for domestic use in Beijing, Shanghai and other cities, will now be made in the USA. Much cheaper than those unnecessary pollution controls.

Thank you, Bgarret, for alerting us to this 'news'. One question, how do the Russians benefit from this policy? I do not understand why to do all this if not for direct benefit to our masters.

 

[Drax7]

Trillions is more like it . Trillions Is what UBS meant.

$250,000 per station of 6 chargers.

Hence

$1,000,000 gets you 24 chargers.

$1 billion gets you 24,000 chargers.

Tesla presently st 5195 chargers.

 

[Bgarret]

@Bgarret : ^^THIS^^ gets my early 2017 Oscar vote in the 'Best Posting on TMC' category.

Thanks Al, but the envelopes will probably get switched at the podium and Colin Langan will win even though he's nominated in the category "Most Often Quoted 'Bear Analyst'".

Not sure why the pressure is on to dump on Tesla. I'm waiting for the next earnings call when Jonas asks another celestial question of Elon, "Elon, Adam, we've discussed Mars, now let's peel back the curtain on the sun, tell us how the sun rising in the East and setting in the West impacts your solar strategy."
Elon, "Well there's a high probability the Sun will rise in the East and set in the West, and that will help power the world through solar."

Headline - "Colin Langan of UBS: Musk Uncertain of Sun Rising in the East and Setting in the West, Tesla Doomed!"

 

[Hogfighter]

Looks like there is nothing to talk about here in this bull chamber So many replies to a simple post.

OK, here you go:
@Curt Renz : Not many will bother to rewire their garages or install 240V chargers. Even less will go to the extent of building a new home just to charge their car.
BTW, Tesla is the only EV that can't be charged from household wall outlets and requires a $2400(?) upfront cost in special charger installation. I think, all other EVs & PHEVs can be charged from wall outlets.
BTW Curt, be careful over hyping the capabilities of Model 3 to your friends and families. If the features don't work out well, angry owners can come after you with pitch forks

EDIT: OK, it seems I was wrong about the 110V charging I remembered reading something along this line. May be, it was about free charging cord. Most other EVs come with free charge cord, but Tesla doesn't? I can't remember now.

@geneclean55 : Chargepoint stations are very expensive. That's why my workplace chose to go with other, cheaper options. I checked about their station a while ago. Please check, what's the cost of charging there. May be it's an upscale apartment for the 1%'rs where this works.

@dhrivnak: Yes, the extension cord heats up slowly and eventually the breaker trips. Especially if the battery is near empty. I could charge at 12 amps early on, but no more. I don't want to spend ANY money for the occasional charge. I'm getting enough free charge at work. As I showed earlier, charging at home here in California is as expensive (or more) as driving an efficient gas/hybrid car.

Others: Autonomously driving the car outside the city or far away to charge is a ridiculous idea. Think of the extra depreciation and lost charge for the unnecessary commute. And the unnecessary congestion and the extra pollution for generating the extra consumed electricity. It's a losing proposition.

Bear arguments don't get slaughtered here. Posts with demonstrably false points do, of which you seem to post often.

 

[scaesare]

EDIT: OK, it seems I was wrong about the 110V charging I remembered reading something along this line. May be, it was about free charging cord. Most other EVs come with free charge cord, but Tesla doesn't? I can't remember now

BZZZT!!!

0 for 2.

If only there were some way a person could check facts with one of these new-fangled computer things before making misinformed claims...

 

[bonaire]

Trillions is more like it . Trillions Is what UBS meant.

$250,000 per station of 6 chargers.

Hence

$1,000,000 gets you 24 chargers.

$1 billion gets you 24,000 chargers.

Tesla presently st 5195 chargers.

Wasn't someone able to come up with a price roughly of $500k per supercharger site given the financial records (quarterly ERs)?
And the reality is that having more smaller stations is better than one large station every hundred+ miles. Having a dual-head supercharger at every Cracker Barrel, for instance. May as well do a 2-head SC at every Tesla store location too instead of HPWC. Consumers want to "see the deployments" and not just read a map to see a pinpoint 50 miles away from home and imagine that it is their life-line of only chargeability. Keep in mind, most consumers don't know or understand the Chargepoint, Blink or PlugShare networks to look up regional 2 and DCFC charging - and need an education. Plus, converters for CHAdeMO and even Combo plugs would help sway consumers to having a much better understanding of the full charging "infrastructure". Superchargers alone are not enough to cause mass adoption. And consumers think another thing - what if they buy "another brand of EV" later on? They wouldn't be able to use Superchargers so they need to know what infrastructure will support any brand they may choose down the road. At least there is a converter for HPWC (Tesla plug) to L2 that some folks can buy to bring more charging stations into usability. If Tesla owner hears a Bolt owner want to stop by their home posted on Plug-share and they bring along the converter - will they let them charge or will they only share with other Tesla owners? The problem with the plug standard is "no standard".

 

[-=buzz=-]

Actually, it's more efficient to group large numbers of superchargers instead of distributing them.

Assuming 30 2-stall SCs, 50% occupancy and 30 min average charge time:

If you arrive at 2-stall SC with both stalls already full, you have to expect 0-30 min wait time. If you move to the next SC you risk the chance of it getting full just before you arrive yet again.

In case of a single 60-stall SC you could plug right in. And if it's full there should be 2 cars leaving every minute.

 

[kenliles]

I'm getting enough free charge at work.

QED

 

[gene]

I started a thread in the "policy" section. Discussing Trump's EPA beginning to make noise about disallowing California to set it's own standards. As most of you know CARB is what got EV's in the USA started.

Trump's EPA will try to destroy California's CARB to set its own rules...coming soon...

PS, there's a guy on the thread who likes to dominate and oppose everything related to California, you can set him on ignore.

 

[traxila]

Looks like there is nothing to talk about here in this bull chamber So many replies to a simple post.

OK, here you go:
@Curt Renz : Not many will bother to rewire their garages or install 240V chargers. Even less will go to the extent of building a new home just to charge their car.
BTW, Tesla is the only EV that can't be charged from household wall outlets and requires a $2400(?) upfront cost in special charger installation. I think, all other EVs & PHEVs can be charged from wall outlets.
BTW Curt, be careful over hyping the capabilities of Model 3 to your friends and families. If the features don't work out well, angry owners can come after you with pitch forks

EDIT: OK, it seems I was wrong about the 110V charging I remembered reading something along this line. May be, it was about free charging cord. Most other EVs come with free charge cord, but Tesla doesn't? I can't remember now.

@geneclean55 : Chargepoint stations are very expensive. That's why my workplace chose to go with other, cheaper options. I checked about their station a while ago. Please check, what's the cost of charging there. May be it's an upscale apartment for the 1%'rs where this works.

@dhrivnak: Yes, the extension cord heats up slowly and eventually the breaker trips. Especially if the battery is near empty. I could charge at 12 amps early on, but no more. I don't want to spend ANY money for the occasional charge. I'm getting enough free charge at work. As I showed earlier, charging at home here in California is as expensive (or more) as driving an efficient gas/hybrid car.

Others: Autonomously driving the car outside the city or far away to charge is a ridiculous idea. Think of the extra depreciation and lost charge for the unnecessary commute. And the unnecessary congestion and the extra pollution for generating the extra consumed electricity. It's a losing proposition.

My God, you have been on this site for what sems like forever continuously spouting nonsense and it is now perfectly obvious that you do not know a goddamn thing about this car. Have you ever even seen one? Come on really. Can you cease and desist with the postings until you actually do some basic research. Check out the website. I believe it is tesla.com nowadays.

Gonna go on some solar websites now and tell all those moron know it alls that the latest REAL research shows that the sun is powered by COAL. Shows you what a waste of time / hoax all this green stuff is...