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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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I've been thinking about EAP/FSD and pricing. My understanding is the new AP 2 hardware is less then $1k, so most of the $8k FSD costs are software development. With the 3 those costs are going to be spread over a much larger number of cars, so either Tesla is going to print money or the cost is going to come down.

Elon previously said he expects 3 ASP to be $42k, which is only $7k in options. Maybe I'm delusional but I have a hard time imagining buying a 3 and not buying EAP, much less FSD once it's more then just a buzzword. It would be like buying an early S without the tech package, which did happen but was pretty rare. I wouldn't be surprised to see EAP come down to $3k or so.
Exactly But does anyone believe that Tesla is planning to charge more money for the AP and FSD on the S-X than for the M3? And Elon said in a tweet that they are going to charge less for the M3 pack upgrades.

Two possibilities:
1. Tesla is planning to charge S-X buyers more money for the same options. Which doesn't reflect the cost and will definitely cause Osborning.

2. They are planning to reduce their prices on the S-X when they release the M3 prices, which will make them similar margins to what they are making now, and be a powerful demand lever, and make it much more difficult for other oem's to compete.
 
Check out the last few posts in this thread.
If that rumor is true, internally Elon is telling 50/wk in July. but to investors, he is saying 1000/week in July.
Tesla Model 3 vs Model S comparison slides

Also, glass roof is not standard on Model 3. It's optional. Robot arms aren't going to assemble everything through the roof opening.

Here is also a good weekend read on how dieselgate is making the charging infrastructure an even playing field for all EVs soon.
VW Reveals Tesla-like EV Charging Plans - HybridCars.com
 
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Two possibilities:
1. Tesla is planning to charge S-X buyers more money for the same options. Which doesn't reflect the cost and will definitely cause Osborning.

Tesla is definitely going to charge more for S/X options than for 3 options. When you build 1,000,000 of something instead of 100,000 it reduces labor costs for the same installed hardware. Also charging more for similar options in your flagship vehicles is standard in the industry.
 
A friend of mine who has been working for Solar City since its beginning told me yesterday that the sales team will ultimately be supplied with Model 3's. The idea is when a salesman visits a home to discuss solar, all customers considering solar systems will also have a chance to take the Model 3 for a test drive. Seems like a good way to sell some more Model 3's.
 
They tripled the capacity by installing three times the capacity in the same space, which as you say doesn't require Grohmann.


Sigh. Tesla also produces cars, Solar panels and cells, and roofing tiles. And car motors and inverters,

Doesn't quite matter how fast they produce everything else, if they can't speed up battery production. Seems like we've reached a point where we're repeating ourselves, so I'll leave it with my prediction:

My base case is for Gigafactory 1 production rate to be revised up to 1m cars/yr run-rate some time in 2019, and 2m cars/yr run-rate by 4Q20. I expect this to be announced following a surge in model 3 reservations in 3Q17.

My base case also assumes next-gen Gigafactories to produce 2m cars/yr with full vertical integration (materials to complete car) with location announcements in 4Q17, construction start in 1Q18, mass-production start in 1Q20, reaching 2m cars/yr by 4Q21.

In other words, I expect Tesla to be producing 10 million cars run-rate by 4Q21.
 
They tripled the capacity by installing three times the capacity in the same space, which as you say doesn't require Grohmann.

I haven't seen this mentioned here (recently) but when Elon/JB first talked about tripling GF1 throughput one or both had mentioned that much of the factory would now have three floors. This directly relates to the 3D concepts and (multilayer) processor designs also first mentioned at that time.

We've mentioned this before but factory FIFO components (queues of pre-sliced anode/cathode rolls) and cell aging likely account for (much of) those portions of the factory that aren't three levels.

It also wouldn't be a surprise if later sections of GF1 have higher throughput as they apply lessons learned from the first sections.

Perhaps the reason we haven't heard about an increase of cell capacity is that plans have already changed to use some of original volume of GF1 for total drivetrain production (I.e. moved motors from Freemont)
 
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So... I am of the mind that if Tesla makes any Model 3's for customer deliveries in July or August, that's a major milestone. Success is solving the production issues so that they can hit the 5000/week at some point in 2017. From Musk's comments for a while now, they expect production problems to crop up. We really should not expect any production vehicles to be delivered in July or August. The real initial volume production is really later in the quarter, and even that, a few hundred would be great. It doesn't matter in the medium term if they put in insane effort to ship hundreds or thousands in Q3 if those efforts don't help get them to solve mass production bottlenecks.

Clearly, the bears will try to misconstrue Musk's comments to set too high of a bar in order to make failure almost certain from their perspective no matter what happens. While on balance, investors obviously now feel that zero to 2,500 in 2017 is too low, I remind you that many bears thought that Tesla would have filed for bankruptcy by now. Or 2019/2020 was the timeframe for the Model 3 and no way would they ship any in 2018, much less 2017.

Tesla ordered parts volume for initial production starting in July. They expect to be able to start production in July. But every part has to make it in properly in order to start volume production. Again, from Musk:

So, when we place parts orders with our suppliers, we’ve told them 1,000 a week in July, 2,000 a week in August, and 4,000 a week in September. These are parts orders. Then the parts need to arrive. They need to be turned into a car. And the car needs to be delivered to customers.

I think the best way to interpret this quote is... 1,000 a week initial parts order, plus another 2,000 a week in the next month, is for suppliers to understand that their initial production run sizing is for annual run rate of 100,000 a year. That the tooling and raw materials orders are targeted at that rate for July 1, but clearly there are likely to be some initial problems. These initial parts are due in July. If Tesla receives all the parts in order to build a car, they can start building cars. It is likely that they already have prototype parts on hand now... the initial low volume production runs of parts, indistinguishable from production parts if they don't make last minute engineering changes, to be able to build a few hundred or maybe even a thousand. Probably enough to crank the factory through some number of iterations in July to see where everything is and what doesn't work. It is possible that some parts will have to be revised... but note, ongoing revisions have been going on with all cars, so that's not abnormal.

At 100,000 a year initial run rate, that's a parts ordering volume greater than the Bolt by roughly 3-4x. That translates into a much lower fixed overhead cost per part. That commentary by Musk was not really for investors actually... it was to reinforce to suppliers that Tesla really does mean 100,000 and then 200,000 run rate very soon now. And the suppliers need to have the production capacity, raw materials, labor, and supply chains in place for those kinds of volumes.

We will see, at the end of this week, a peak at where the factory stands. I am expecting to see a lot of robots. But note, the factory doesn't need to be ready until July. And by being *not* ready in June, a slew of capex doesn't hit until Q4 at the earliest. Clearly Tesla is actually very tightly cash managed.
 
Maybe this was posted already, but in case not,
there's an Update and clarification on MS and M3 differences and options for M3

Tesla confirms Model 3 wheel options, optional Glass Roof, and coil suspension

IMG_0150.JPG



Tesla Lists New Options For Model 3
 
Supply problems hit production at BMW: Focus

BWM is running into issues with an increasing frequency.

I expect the recent $7,500 Model S price reduction to very significantly eat into net incomes of BMW and Mercedes by the end of the year.

I think the Model S is starting to eat into the E Class and 5 Series business. Its the only way to believe 40% market share for large luxury cars is if they are actually selling into lower segments as well as taking market share from that top level segment. As good of a car as the model S is that is a very large chunk of a market that includes roughly 10 models. That means that the average of the other 9 models is 6.66% which is evil. There could be other models, but I would guess they are evil as well.

Electrek shows 40% share in the US:
Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US

This is from last Nov. and I have seen updates since, but also estimates how much Model S is getting of the mid sized luxury market:

Tesla's Rapidly Growing Market Share In The U.S. - Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA) | Seeking Alpha
 
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