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2017Q1 results

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"the consensus" is a total mess this report. i re-copied our table below for easy reference.

you notice how some analysts forecast solar city, some do not. some include nci's, some do not. some forecast gaap, and some non-gaap. the point of the table was to try to get an apples-to-apples comparison of the different estimates.

i feel confident in saying first call, estimize, wsj, and other sites have not delved so deeply into the nuances of this quarter's report to do anything more than trying to get all estimates at gaap or non-gaap. to make matters worse i don't even know if the "consensus" reported is a gaap or non-gaap number. a properly constructed official "consensus" would take these moving parts into account by holding them consistent across models as we tried to do.

whatever the headline gaap eps number and initial reaction are, the people following this thread (i think) would know they have to look deeper to find the operational performance. to that end i had put together the "net income zero nci's" column in the table below - that's the number before net income is adjusted for non controlling interests. that one number that should give a quick read on how tesla did operationally.

just about everyone is estimating a gaap loss (except jp morgan who also modeled meaningful solarcity nci's). and everyone including me is expecting "net income zero nci's" to be -148m or less. i still think something is wrong with a ubs target of 160 while our read on their model has them at the highest "net income zero nci's" estimate.

my opinion continues to be that positive gaap and non-gaap earnings will come riding on the back of the solarcity nci accounting. i believe that the eps beat will be viewed as low quality, with the positive offset being a positive gaap eps number brings the s&p index addition into play. i believe operationally tesla executed well, that will also help if it shows through in the report. i believe analysts smarter than us figured most of this out by mid-march with most doubts erased at the release of the deliveries number.

the hard part about being very early is that you've been thinking one thing for so long you fail to understand how far behind the rest of the world is. this has happened to me many times in my trading and i still don't know how to fight that feeling.

on market sentiment: the options market appears decidedly tipped positive - there seems to be more outstanding calls than puts. options are bullish for what i call "relative event risk." that is, if you look at equally far out of the money calls vs. puts, you find the calls are somewhat more expensive. you see this happen when people are buying more calls and selling more puts going into an event - especially in the farther out of the money options the pricing now is driven nearly 100% by event risk. example: stock closed near 322.50, 300 put was 1.70x1.75 but 345 call is 1.83 x 2.00. this is different from how i remember 2013, when puts were skewed high due to the high cost to borrow.

another concern is we haven't seen large stocks make huge moves on earnings this season. most of the big movers have been 2nd tier type stocks, and i can't think of one that went for even +25%.

apologize for repeating many things i've said before, just trying to summarize the cross-currents i see. while i remain positive on the actual report, i am feeling less confident that the market reaction will be extremely positive - especially after the recent 27 point move off the 300 level. i think the best value for my out of the money gamble might be 5/5 370's for 25c. a surprise 15% move would bring those into play and the price is low enough to be able to snag a 20x+ winner. i don't like selling the puts because i'm not being paid well to do it.

here's an options table showing open interest for 5/5, notice the at-the-money level in yellow and see how many more calls there are vs. puts?
View attachment 225228




BankPrice TargetQ1 GAAP EPSnet income zero nci'sOperating IncomeNet IncomeInclude any NCI's?Comments
UBS$160-0.39-148Full Year -561Full Year -477 GAAPYes: $338 for FYE 2017n/a
luvb2bn/a0.61-176-5299 gaapyes: $275 for q1non gaap figure 50c higher than gaap eps at 1.11
Barclays$165-1.57-256-199-173 non-GAAPNoforecasted -1.07 non-gaap eps
Baird$368-1.73-282-230-198 non-GAAPNoforecast -1.23 non-gaap eps
Morgan Stanley$305-1.94-326-255-326 GAAPNoDoes not forecast SolarCity.
merrill lynch$160-1.44-395-325-245 GAAPyes: 150m per quarter in '17non-gaap eps estimate at -0.85, includes 100m stock comp on 170m shares
muppet sacks$160-1.07-466Full Year -864 non-gaapFull Year -1348 nonGAAPYes: $1166 for full yr 2017working off what appears to be a non-gaap eps figure of -0.57 - figures may be inaccurate need better data
[TR][TD][/TD][/TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TR][TD]Deutsche Bank[/TD][TD]$240[/TD][TD]-1.41[/TD][TD]-230[/TD][TD]n/a[/TD] [TD]n/a[/TD] [TD]No[/TD][TD]Had forecasted +4.19 of EPS for FYE 2017 prior to 3.14.17[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]J.P. Morgan[/TD][TD]$185[/TD][TD]0.27[/TD][TD]-256[/TD][TD]-159[/TD] [TD]134 non-GAAP; 44 GAAP[/TD] [TD]Yes: $1,050 for FYE 2017 and $300 for q1-17[/TD][TD]Was previously forecasting -1.52 of EPS for Q1 before modeling impact of SolarCity. forecasted 0.83 non-gaap eps.[/TD][/TR]
Colin, reiterating his Sell rating. Is it me, or are bearish analysts - UBS, Merrill, David "Goldman Muppet" Tambarinno, Pacific Crest all rushing to get their negative ratings out. Earnings are out tomorrow, what is the rush to flog Tesla the day before? I think Goldman Muppet has reiterated Sell 3 times in the last three weeks. It's like an ugly American tourist on vacation in Europe and, finding someone that doesn't speak English, just keeps saying the same things, but louder. 24 hours and 10 minutes til the conference call.

http://www.investors.com/news/techn...nnected-to-lofty-valuation-growth/?src=A00220
 
speechless. even whywasishortos has figured out there are numerous positive surprises lurking this quarter. do these guys not do the same research? if anyone has the note to forward or to post some info on the model from ubs i will update our table.

Colin, reiterating his Sell rating. Is it me, or are bearish analysts - UBS, Merrill, David "Goldman Muppet" Tambarinno, Pacific Crest all rushing to get their negative ratings out. Earnings are out tomorrow, what is the rush to flog Tesla the day before? I think Goldman Muppet has reiterated Sell 3 times in the last three weeks. It's like an ugly American tourist on vacation in Europe and, finding someone that doesn't speak English, just keeps saying the same things, but louder. 24 hours and 10 minutes til the conference call.

http://www.investors.com/news/techn...nnected-to-lofty-valuation-growth/?src=A00220
 
Here is what I'm looking for:
Positive EPS
Solarcity isn't the useless relative staying in the basement - is actually accretive
Positive comments on TE
Model 3 on track
Update on future outside cash needs not being material
Bravado from Elon Musk - we are about to go bananas with our company
Surprise if we get a stock split
 
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so UBS did update their EPS estimates 2017; Q1 was revised from -0.39 to -0.90 and the subsequent quarters were actually revised upwards such that their full year FYE 2017 estimate remains unchanged at -2.90.

They are still forecasting NCI's at $338 for the full year FYE 2017. No change to the price target.

surfside
 
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before the moment of truth i want to thank @surfside, @neroden, @brian45011, and anyone else i missed who made contributions to this thread.

i have wagered significantly that the research produced here is better than anything else that we've seen published. i feel really good about our efforts, but i know the market reaction is what determines the p&l.

good luck all.

so UBS did update their EPS estimates 2017; Q1 was revised from -0.39 to -0.90 and the subsequent quarters were actually revised upwards such that their full year FYE 2017 estimate remains unchanged at -2.90.

They are still forecasting NCI's at $338 for the full year FYE 2017. No change to the price target.

surfside
 
before the moment of truth i want to thank @surfside, @neroden, @brian45011, and anyone else i missed who made contributions to this thread.

i have wagered significantly that the research produced here is better than anything else that we've seen published. i feel really good about our efforts, but i know the market reaction is what determines the p&l.

good luck all.

Agreed. Thanks guys. You're great guys for all the hard work you've put in

Good luck to us!
 
before the moment of truth i want to thank @surfside, @neroden, @brian45011, and anyone else i missed who made contributions to this thread.

i have wagered significantly that the research produced here is better than anything else that we've seen published. i feel really good about our efforts, but i know the market reaction is what determines the p&l.

good luck all.
You've done an outstanding job too, B2B. Yea I've done lots of research in the past, been correct, but the market didn't agree and lost money. So irrational in the short term!
 
before the moment of truth i want to thank @surfside, @neroden, @brian45011, and anyone else i missed who made contributions to this thread.

i have wagered significantly that the research produced here is better than anything else that we've seen published. i feel really good about our efforts, but i know the market reaction is what determines the p&l.

good luck all.
and many thanks to @luvb2b for providing the leadership, research, time and sharing.
makes the forum infinitely more valuable--
well done
 
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they've totally missed my estimates. i was totally wrong... sorry to all for bringing you into my wormhole.

Are you kidding?! You can't learn if you don't try. Your work and the work of others here are a huge starting point. As we (well, you gals and guys) sort this out, we'll be much better informed for Q2 and going forward. Huge props and thanks you all!
 
they've totally missed my estimates. i was totally wrong... sorry to all for bringing you into my wormhole.
Well you can't say we didn't try! The dramatic drop in NCI's is surprising to say the least; I just got off a conference call so I haven't had a chance to sort through where else we missed (looks like no ZEV credit sales and only $35 of Q4 EAP revenue recognition, which was offset by a taketa airbag recall charge).

In any event, thanks @luvb2b for leading the charge - I fully enjoyed it.

Looking forward to the conference call.

surfside
 
here's a table with what i think are the actual results shown at the top. note that the actual report is actually worse than most of the estimates. i'm shocked the stock is not down, and if i were short, i'd be wondering what it takes to get the stock down.

BankPrice TargetQ1 GAAP EPSnet income zero nci'sOperating IncomeNet IncomeInclude any NCI's?Comments
actualn/a-2.04-397-258-330yes: $67 for q1 2017n/a
UBS$160-0.39-148Full Year -561Full Year -477 GAAPYes: $338 for FYE 2017n/a
luvb2bn/a0.61-176-5299 gaapyes: $275 for q1non gaap figure 50c higher than gaap eps at 1.11
Barclays$165-1.57-256-199-173 non-GAAPNoforecasted -1.07 non-gaap eps
Baird$368-1.73-282-230-198 non-GAAPNoforecast -1.23 non-gaap eps
Morgan Stanley$305-1.94-326-255-326 GAAPNoDoes not forecast SolarCity.
merrill lynch$160-1.44-395-325-245 GAAPyes: 150m per quarter in '17non-gaap eps estimate at -0.85, includes 100m stock comp on 170m shares
muppet sacks$160-1.07-466Full Year -864 non-gaapFull Year -1348 nonGAAPYes: $1166 for full yr 2017working off what appears to be a non-gaap eps figure of -0.57 - figures may be inaccurate need better data
[TR][TD][/TD][/TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TR][TD]Deutsche Bank[/TD][TD]$240[/TD][TD]-1.41[/TD][TD]-230[/TD][TD]n/a[/TD] [TD]n/a[/TD] [TD]No[/TD][TD]Had forecasted +4.19 of EPS for FYE 2017 prior to 3.14.17[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]J.P. Morgan[/TD][TD]$185[/TD][TD]0.27[/TD][TD]-256[/TD][TD]-159[/TD] [TD]134 non-GAAP; 44 GAAP[/TD] [TD]Yes: $1,050 for FYE 2017 and $300 for q1-17[/TD][TD]Was previously forecasting -1.52 of EPS for Q1 before modeling impact of SolarCity. forecasted 0.83 non-gaap eps.[/TD][/TR]
 
they've totally missed my estimates. i was totally wrong... sorry to all for bringing you into my wormhole.
No regrets for me. Looks like the assumption of ZEV credits and AP2 revenue just did not materialize this quarter but looks like your estimates for Revenue and cost of revenue were spot on.

With regards to NCI loss, well that's alchemy accounting to begin with.

Sincerely thank you for the effort and the exercise in breaking it down.
 
we were very good on auto revenues, the combination of autopilot + auto + leasing is only 1% away from actual.

zev credits were a big miss... i don't understand the guide to gaap/non-gaap gross margin levels (which were driven by zev credits) and then they don't sell any zev credits.

solarcity's business dropped a ton, considering that our aggregate solarcity+energy storage revenues differ from actual by around 60 million. however the gross profit comes almost exactly on the estimate i had.

total gross profit was quite a bit better operationally than i had, the main difference being 127m in zev credits. take those out of my model and the gross profit comes about 50m higher. so that's all good.

they changed the definition of non-gaap gross margin to now include stock comp and zev, where before it was zev only that drove the difference. maddening!

on operating expense, i had 280 for combined r&d vs. 322 actual. i had 515 for combined sg&a vs. 603 actual. so i missed by a mile on opex. that's a total difference of 130m. half of that is acquisition related non-recurring charges.

on nci's i guess we learned that they are driven by volume. i'm surprised there isn't more of a recurring component there.

Well you can't say we didn't try! The dramatic drop in NCI's is surprising to say the least; I just got off a conference call so I haven't had a chance to sort through where else we missed (looks like no ZEV credit sales and only $35 of Q4 EAP revenue recognition, which was offset by a taketa airbag recall charge).

In any event, thanks @luvb2b for leading the charge - I fully enjoyed it.

Looking forward to the conference call.

surfside
 
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Thanks so much @luvb2b for doing the research. There are a ton of non recurring charges in there blowing things up. And it seems the really do stick to their policy of sometimes just not selling zevs at all. I have a theory that if they felt they needed to sell some every quarter, then the buyers would have all the bargaining power so the cost/credit would plummet. Only by acting like a cartel can they get anything from them, so they have to be willing to sell zero quite often.

Also, yeah, shorts must be wondering what it takes to push it down more than 308. Maybe they are the ones panicking tomorrow since there are no bad news items to count on for a long time.