2018 100D Model X vs 2021 Model Y

[Shareth23]

Hi,

I currently have a 2021 MY long range. I am looking to replace it with a MX (used, from Tesla, 2018 100D 7 seater with EPA rates 295 miles). Not a very sane decision but space (with 2 car seats), better suspension and of course price point for a used MX led me to this. This MX is a December 2018 build - and I wanted to find out if charging speed (at home and supercharging) is much slower than the 2021 MY. If slow, I would like to know how slow it would be? The vehicle only has 12K miles on it and was apparently driven lightly but keeping that aside, should I be aware of any red flags? The basic warranty expires Dec 2022 with additional one year from Tesla while the battery and drive unit expired 2026.

 

[IdaX]

Yeah it will charge slower than the Y. I have a 2017 ModelX with a 100kW-hr battery. They aren’t cooled as well as the Model Y battery, or as well as the new Model Xs for that matter. So they top out charging at maybe 165kW and quickly throttle (after 5-10mins) down to more like 100-120kW to avoid overheating.

So, supercharging with the Y is going to be much faster. Total supercharging time of the Y maybe 1/2 to 2/3 that of the X on the same trip.

Nevertheless, we take our X on our big trips for the space (we have 4 kids and they don’t all fit in our Model 3). It’s still a great road-trip car!

 

[Shareth23]

Thank you. I am also seeing that the charging stations are being upgraded here in SoCal so even though the charging time difference between the Y and X may remain the same, the overall X charging time could decrease? [I am trying to justify this switch lol]

How do you feel about the suspension and road noise in the X compared to 3?

 

[ngng]

Thank you. I am also seeing that the charging stations are being upgraded here in SoCal so even though the charging time difference between the Y and X may remain the same, the overall X charging time could decrease? [I am trying to justify this switch lol]

How do you feel about the suspension and road noise in the X compared to 3?

Generally speaking, the 3/Y will charge faster. That being said, I remember driving back from LA to the Bay and remember seeing a Y at the same spots I was charging at. Would I like to charge faster? Of course. Is it a big deal on a road trip? Not to me. I think we were both just watching a show on Netflix before departing.

Here are some approximate trip plans:

2018 100D: 34 mins charging

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Y LR: 26 mins charging

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[IdaX]

How do you feel about the suspension and road noise in the X compared to 3?

The X is better for high-clearance driving -- drove it through like 12" snow on high suspension, planing off the top inch or two of snow, but the X drove like a champ for 50 miles through that stuff. The air suspension does make for a somewhat softer ride, but you know, I really don't mind the suspension on the 3 at all, so for me this wouldn't be a deciding factor.

The 3 is noisier than the X, I think. I've got a vintage 3, too, before the double-pane windows and all, so YMMV. Honestly, though, the difference isn't a strong factor for me, as neither are particularly bad or egregious, and I place other features above the X/3 road-noise difference.

The older X is going to have some battery degradation, though, that can be a bit of a hit. I had 289mi range new; down to 269 now. Looks like a new Y is 330 miles, and less of a hit in winter, which is a serious difference up here in the Mountain west where we have cold winters and large distances between superchargers. For you in SoCal, I expect that the older X range should be just fine tho.

Various things do break in the older car that's out of warranty. We had the coolant 3-way valve go out a few months ago ($400). We had to replace one of the rear captain's chairs due to a faulty motor. That kind of thing. The Y would probably give you less guff in the early going.

 

[Rocky_H]

I wanted to find out if charging speed (at home and supercharging) is much slower than the 2021 MY.

People are strangely only answering the second of your two questions and forgetting the first.
1. At home
Very probably the X can charge faster than the Model Y if you can get the right equipment to supply more power. A 2018 X with a 100 sized battery I think still came with the 72A capable onboard charger. The Model Y only as a 48A capable charger. An older Tesla wall connector Gen1 or Gen2 can provide those higher amps on a bigger circuit, or a J1772 unit from someone like Clipper Creek would be another good choice.

2. Supercharging
Yes, X definitely slower. The 3 and Y have stuff that makes them quite a bit quicker on Superchargers. It's kind of two-fold. One is that the 3 and Y can receive energy faster, but also the X is so much heavier and bigger (less aerodynamic) than the Y that its efficiency is a lot worse, so it will be refilling the "rated miles" much slower than a Y, even if the power rates were the same. It's kind of like if you're refilling a big Pickup truck versus a tiny econo car from the same gas hose. Even though the gallons per minute would be the same, the econo car is getting miles per minute refilled a lot faster because it goes farther on each gallon.

 

[ngng]

People are strangely only answering the second of your two questions and forgetting the first.
1. At home
Very probably the X can charge faster than the Model Y if you can get the right equipment to supply more power. A 2018 X with a 100 sized battery I think still came with the 72A capable onboard charger. The Model Y only as a 48A capable charger. An older Tesla wall connector Gen1 or Gen2 can provide those higher amps on a bigger circuit, or a J1772 unit from someone like Clipper Creek would be another good choice.

Personally, I consider all AC charging to be "slow". Hell, even when I'm pull 30kW at a SC it feels slow. The value of home charging has always been that you plug in, and you're always ready to go.

2. Supercharging
Yes, X definitely slower. The 3 and Y have stuff that makes them quite a bit quicker on Superchargers. It's kind of two-fold. One is that the 3 and Y can receive energy faster, but also the X is so much heavier and bigger (less aerodynamic) than the Y that its efficiency is a lot worse, so it will be refilling the "rated miles" much slower than a Y, even if the power rates were the same. It's kind of like if you're refilling a big Pickup truck versus a tiny econo car from the same gas hose. Even though the gallons per minute would be the same, the econo car is getting miles per minute refilled a lot faster because it goes farther on each gallon.

The X also has a larger battery pack, which can recover more energy quicker. At the end of the day, a lot can go into SC. But, based off of total trip time, "it's not that big of a deal"

 

[Shareth23]

@ngng @Rocky_H @IdaX - thank you so much for the insight. I think this ultimately comes down to personal situation (size, road trips, access to charging, preferences etc.) but I really appreciate the detailed answers.

One other question not entirely pertaining to battery - so apologies in advance - The 2018 Model X was built in December of 2018 - and has ~12k miles on it but has a moderate accident (previously repaired). I checked the records and it seems the accident was on a parking lot in Albany (NY) and it was repaired fully to Tesla's standards (whatever that means) in September 2019. The owner drove it for another year or so and traded this in (this was leased). The price with FSD is ~$89K (from Tesla directly). I am usually averse to repaired vehicles but scouting the space for over 4 months considering the current inventory and market - I decided I would give it a try. Its a pity Tesla does not show pictures of the actual vehicle nor allow us to test-drive once it reaches their delivery centers. The question is - can I be at peace knowing I still have the basic warranty until Dec 2022, extended 1 year (2023 December) for the basic vehicle - and the drive unit until Dec 2026? I am not entirely sure Tesla's used delivery team takes a thorough look at the vehicle they buy and sell even though they have repeatedly said "....The car did not suffer frame damage, airbag deployment nor does it have a salvaged title. The car did experience moderate cosmetic damage that has been repaired and brought back to like new standards"

 

[IdaX]

The question is - can I be at peace knowing I still have the basic warranty until Dec 2022, extended 1 year (2023 December) for the basic vehicle - and the drive unit until Dec 2026?

Hmmm. That's only 9 months or so of the full warranty -- oh, plus a year for the used warranty. Things still do break on Teslas, and when they do break they tend to be pricier to fix than if something breaks on a Nissan Versa. Yeah, that's pretty good, probably, with the extra year. The drive units and battery also you've got some years yet before it becomes an issue. Not as good as new, but you're getting a cheaper vehicle to start with, too, which might make it worth the risk.

 

[ngng]

Personally, I have no concerns buying a repaired car. Even less if it's from the mfg with a factory warranty. The biggest concern would be features being stripped after the repair, but since this has been signed off by Tesla, no concerns there. Though, there are other things that might raise an eyebrow

 

[Shareth23]

hi @ngng @Rocky_H @IdaX - quick update (also posted this in driving dynamics channel) -
I just purchased the used 2018 model X with 13 k miles, directly from Tesla, and noticed a few things that are different than my newer 2021 MYLR. Just wanted to know if these are issues or am I being paranoid and comparing a 2018 December build to a 2021 august built vehicle.

1. There are two noises that seem to emanate from the “engine”- a) a “zzz” sound somewhat reminiscent of old hybrid ICE engines like in a Honda Civic hybrid from 2010…- and b) a more stronger motorcycle/drill like sound (although not as loud) which is quite surprising for a 13K mile car.

Are these two expected? The motorcycle like noise is pretty annoying and I am hoping it’s an issue that could be fixed?
(I can try and post a video/audio recording if you need it).

2. The battery degradation seems to be on the higher side - I was told the degradation could be 3-4% but I could see only a max charge of 275 miles (100%). This is more than 6% of the 295 epa estimated range. Can you please let me know if this is this expected?

thanks again!!

 

[IdaX]

My 2017 model X P100D with 100,000 miles has about 7% degradation, at 269 miles last I looked. So I’d say that the battery degradation seems completely in-family.

The motor noises on the other hand…. I mean, a Tesla should never sound like a motorcycle, full stop. Post a recording, though — as you say it’s not loud, that might help us to evaluate….

Congrats on the new car!!! Post pics

 

[Rocky_H]

I just purchased the used 2018 model X with 13 k miles, directly from Tesla, and noticed a few things that are different than my newer 2021 MYLR. Just wanted to know if these are issues or am I being paranoid and comparing a 2018 December build to a 2021 august built vehicle.

Regarding the noises you're about to mention, it's almost certainly because of your comparing it to a new Y. My wife and I went and checked out a new 3 and Y, planning to get one. But being in it was hurting my wife's ears severely. We figured out the source of it, which is that they have the cabin sealed extremely well so they can do that positive air pressure thing for the "Bioweapon Defense Mode" B.S. Well, that has the side effect that if the fan speed is above 2, it boosts the air pressure in the cabin to where it hurts her eardrums. And it also muffles sound quite a bit, so you won't be able to hear things from outside. Teslas aren't totally silent cars, but you've been fooled into it by your first experience being inside a silent cabin. The older S and X weren't sealed up that tightly, so you will hear the noises they normally have.

1. There are two noises that seem to emanate from the “engine”- a) a “zzz” sound somewhat reminiscent of old hybrid ICE engines like in a Honda Civic hybrid from 2010…- and b) a more stronger motorcycle/drill like sound (although not as loud) which is quite surprising for a 13K mile car.

Are these two expected? The motorcycle like noise is pretty annoying and I am hoping it’s an issue that could be fixed?
(I can try and post a video/audio recording if you need it).

If it's high pitched, like what most people would describe as a "whining" noise, that's probably normal. I remember seeing a lot of people throughout the forums noticing and complaining about hearing motor whining, especially from the front motor, since that is closer.

If it's lower pitched, like more of a "grinding" type of sound, I would suspect that's more not normal.

2. The battery degradation seems to be on the higher side - I was told the degradation could be 3-4% but I could see only a max charge of 275 miles (100%). This is more than 6% of the 295 epa estimated range. Can you please let me know if this is this expected?

"I was told"...probably by Tesla sales people. 3 to 4% would be doing really well. Up to around 10% would still be pretty normal.

 

[Shareth23]

Thank you so much! Please let me know if you are able to view and hear it. The aero plane like whoozing sound and the low motorcycle sound can be heard - curious to know your thoughts!!

 

[Rocky_H]

I hear the high pitched squeal part of it, which does sound like normal electronic motor whine. The lower part sounds to me like heavy tire noise. The X is really heavy, and maybe with soft sport tires it might sound like that? I have an old S with the non sport all season Michelin MXM4 tires, which seem fairly quiet to me, but I've never driven an X, so I'm not sure if those would sound different.

 

[ngng]

I hear the high pitched squeal part of it, which does sound like normal electronic motor whine. The lower part sounds to me like heavy tire noise. The X is really heavy, and maybe with soft sport tires it might sound like that? I have an old S with the non sport all season Michelin MXM4 tires, which seem fairly quiet to me, but I've never driven an X, so I'm not sure if those would sound different.

I have a high pitched motor noise as well which I think is normal. A heavy tire noise might be a worn set of tires, I know my OEM tires were making a ton of noise when the inside tread was totally gone.

 

[Shareth23]

Thank you for the info. Really makes me feel better. I will try and see if local tire shops can help replacing these (assuming tread issue) as Tesla service seems booked for many weeks further out.

 

[Richbot]

Unless I was road tripping I think I'd rather have just about any trim/model of Model X than any trim/model of Model Y. Ok, maybe not a 90d or 60d. The space and ride and user interface are all worth the downsides IMO. As soon as you start road tripping the Y's charge speed and range ought to matter a lot more, but even the unloved X75D would be a pretty nice daily family vehicle. The range number only looks small compared to other Teslas, it's still on par with the latest and greatest stuff being debuted today - the updated Kia Niro EV just debuted with 253 miles of range. But I'd want it to have MCU2. And I've been in some rattly, janky loaner X's, so, each vehicle is different. Good choice though I think.

Try doing a 100% charge to a deep discharge and seeing what it displays. My '21 is hovering between 2-3% "displayed range" "loss" after 22,500 miles.

If you're hearing a motorcycle-like noise it's probably the Dreaded Front Axle Shudder.

 

[Shareth23]

If you're hearing a motorcycle-like noise it's probably the Dreaded Front Axle Shudder.

This is what worries me and keeps me up at night. Let me get the wheels checked and cross them out as an issue - were you able to listen to it on the video (sorry the audio probably wasn’t very clear).

 

[IdaX]

try putting the suspension into "low" or "very low" and see if that clears it up -- it usually helps with shudder.