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2018 Nissan Leaf - $29,990. 40kWh battery

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Yeah but you got to admit the Model 3 event was beyond underwhelming. I'm not saying the leaf is better, I'd still get the Model 3. But when the Model 3 was the most hyped car, a car that is supposed to change the auto industry much like the iPhone did with the phone industry, you kind of expect a lavish inspirational presentation.

It seemed like the leaf was the one to be the ultimate game changer and they presented it that way. Thus I applaud them for doing so. I'd still buy the 3 though.
I think the fundamental difference in the two presentations was that the intended audience was different. The Leaf event was to unveil to the world their new car, and was aimed at us (collectively). The Model 3 event marked the delivery of the first 30 cars, and a celebration party for the folks who created them. That we were allowed to join in and celebrate with them was a bonus, and for that we're all grateful, but I believe the event was fundamentally not for our benefit. You can't fault it for being something it was never intended to be.
 
Boy, talk about a non-starter. Still the same base 3.3 kW charger and similar DCFC speed to current model.

I guess we'll see how it prices in when the 60 kWh version comes out.
2018 Nissan Leaf Photos and Information | News | Car and Driver claims otherwise
All Leafs have a 6.6-kW onboard charger that allows charging at Level 2 (J1772) in about eight hours. On the base S, you’ll need a charging package to get two items that are standard on the rest of the lineup: CHAdeMO fast charging and a new Level 1 and Level 2 combination charging cord that will allow the Leaf to be plugged into a 120-volt or 240-volt outlet. With a Level 3 CHAdeMO fast charger, the Leaf can recover 90 miles of range in 30 minutes.
I was hoping for some official confirmation in Post your questions about the '18 LEAF 2 reveal here - My Nissan Leaf Forum but never got it. Last night, when I digging around on nissannews.com and The Next-Generation Nissan LEAF, there was no mention of OBC wattage. But, I had little time last night to dig.
 
I guess Nissan's entire strategy relies on the model 3 being massively delayed or canceled because I can't imagine how anybody would buy this over a model 3 for a saving of just $5k.

Yes I know that $5k is a lot for some people but who ever can't afford a model 3 likely can't afford spending $30k for a second car to drive around town (no supercharging, low range)
 
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I guess Nissan's entire strategy relies on the model 3 being massively delayed or canceled because I can't imagine how anybody would buy this over a model 3 for a saving of just $5k.

Yes I know that $5k is a lot for some people but who ever can't afford a model 3 likely can't afford spending $30k for a second car to drive around town (no supercharging, low range)
Well, any non-Tesla owner that gets in line now for a Model 3 will be waiting likely for a very long time, esp. if they're not in one of the first delivery areas. For those folks, the Federal tax credit may begin going thru phaseout or be $0 by the time they receive their car. Maybe by the time they're at the front, they'll pull a "40 kWh Model S" and drop the "$35K" Model 3 citing lack of demand or whatever.

Nissan also will eventually go through that. 2018 Nissan LEAF makes North American debut says "To date, Nissan has sold over 112,000 LEAF EVs in the United States and more than 283,000 globally."

I suspect the 2018 Leaf will be not sold at MSRP for a very long time (will be some incentives), whereas Teslas (unless inventory or used) always sell at MSRP.

I wouldn't be surprised if '18 Leaf leases will be cheaper than Model 3 leases.

I do wonder how the 60 kWh version will be priced at. It's unclear of its availability date other than the mention of 2019 model year.
 
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2018 Nissan Leaf Photos and Information | News | Car and Driver claims otherwise

I was hoping for some official confirmation in Post your questions about the '18 LEAF 2 reveal here - My Nissan Leaf Forum but never got it. Last night, when I digging around on nissannews.com and The Next-Generation Nissan LEAF, there was no mention of OBC wattage. But, I had little time last night to dig.

Would be great if that's true. They did mention 6 kW being optional during the reveal, though. Maybe they just meant optional as in 'if your EVSE supports it,' though.
 
Would be great if that's true. They did mention 6 kW being optional during the reveal, though. Maybe they just meant optional as in 'if your EVSE supports it,' though.
It might vary depending on country. Perhaps in Japan, there might be less reason to include a higher wattage OBC since there are over 7000 CHAdeMO chargers there.

Heck, when I looked a few years ago, Canada had the same trim level letters as the US: S, SV and SL, yet the equipment levels were slightly different on them than the US versions for the same model year.
 
I was excited watching the initial few minutes of the announcement as the redesign is much better on the eyes. But then when they started saying it is not an EV, the word "compliance car" instantly came to mind. Why not sell it as an EV as that is what it is and the main reason someone is going to buy it, especially considering the low range compared to an ICE.

The reason I can see people buying the Leaf over the Model 3 is the hatchback - I have no interest in the Model 3 for this specific reason.

Main turnoff for me on the Leaf though is no optional sunroof. I'd miss that as my current Matrix has one and it is nice to have it open on the highway for fresh air rather than the side windows. One of the reasons why we didn't test drive a Subaru at the time we were shopping for a new car (2008).

So looks like I'll have to continue saving up for a Model S. :)
 
Or another speculation of mine: Nissan is selling this to get the federal tax credit. 7500 divided by 36 is like $230 a n
Well, any non-Tesla owner that gets in line now for a Model 3 will be waiting likely for a very long time, esp. if they're not in one of the first delivery areas. For those folks, the Federal tax credit may begin going thru phaseout or be $0 by the time they receive their car. Maybe by the time they're at the front, they'll pull a "40 kWh Model S" and drop the "$35K" Model 3 citing lack of demand or whatever.

Nissan also will eventually go through that. 2018 Nissan LEAF makes North American debut says "To date, Nissan has sold over 112,000 LEAF EVs in the United States and more than 283,000 globally."

I suspect the 2018 Leaf will be not sold at MSRP for a very long time (will be some incentives), whereas Teslas (unless inventory or used) always sell at MSRP.

I wouldn't be surprised if '18 Leaf leases will be cheaper than Model 3 leases.

I do wonder how the 60 kWh version will be priced at. It's unclear of its availability date other than the mention of 2019 model year.
Thanks for the feedback. I share your view overall and personally think it's going to be a disaster as far as sales go, just as I did with the original leaf.

I predict leases going to $200 a month with $0 down and likely less. As a reference I am paying around $265 a month for a Chevy volt with 15k miles a year. My down payment is negative $500 once including CA gov credit. I believe better deals are currently avail on the Chevy volt.

I think the electric car business of non tesla manufacturers entirely relies on the fed tax credit. In the US carmakers receive $7,500 from the federal government even for a 3 year lease. That's like $220 a month!

In my case I basically have half of the cost of my Chevy volt subsidized by taxpayers. Without the federal tax credit the automakers would basically have to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that we want (like tesla)
 
Re: 6.6 kW OBC on ALL (US?) Leafs, DaveinOlyWA: 2018 LEAF! confirms it. He apparently was invited by Nissan and was in a test drive video. I will be going to a (now full, had to RSVP) EVent at Nissan's Sunnyvale research office in under a week. I'm 90%, there will be a Nissan corporate rep there who knows the '18 Leaf and can reconfirm.
Without the federal tax credit the automakers would basically have to go back to the drawing board and come up with something that we want (like tesla)
Keep in mind that Tesla, the company has lost over $3.2 billion cumulatively (even when factoring in their profitable quarters). There was a piece in C&D long ago (wish I could find it) that basically said that any automaker can make a great car given a huge or unlimited amount of $. But the problem is, they need to meet a certain price and profit point while providing what's expected at that price level. And, the price needs to be set in a way that the # of projected units sold --> profit.

You won't sell any $100K or $200K cars that are like Nissan Versas. Yet Lamborghini can't sell cars like their current sports cars for $15K.

Tesla clearly can produce cars with incredible range, straight line performance, an awesome DC FC network while having a great brand image but hasn't been able to do it at a profit despite them being expensive cars w/theoretically high margins. High margins are generally tough(er) on cheaper cars.
 
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Keep in mind that Tesla, the company has lost over $3.2 billion cumulatively (even when factoring in their profitable quarters). There was a piece in C&D long ago (wish I could find it) that basically said that any automaker can make a great car given a huge or unlimited amount of $. But the problem is, they need to meet a certain price and profit point while providing what's expected at that price level. And, the price needs to be set in a way that the # of projected units sold --> profit.

The problem with that analysis is that it ignores the fact that the loss has been to significant CapEx spending on tooling up the factory, building the GF, building out the Supercharging network, R&D on Model 3 etc...

The Model S & X sell at a profit today.


Tesla clearly can produce cars with incredible range, straight line performance, an awesome DC FC network while having a great brand image but hasn't been able to do it at a profit despite them being expensive cars w/theoretically high margins. High margins are generally tough(er) on cheaper cars.

They can. They could be producer of all the Model S/X's they could and sell every one at a profit. The company as a whole would likely be profitable if that were their only (short term) goal. It's not.
 
Re: 6.6 kW OBC on ALL (US?) Leafs, DaveinOlyWA: 2018 LEAF! confirms it. He apparently was invited by Nissan and was in a test drive video. I will be going to a (now full, had to RSVP) EVent at Nissan's Sunnyvale research office in under a week. I'm 90%, there will be a Nissan corporate rep there who knows the '18 Leaf and can reconfirm.

Keep in mind that Tesla, the company has lost over $3.2 billion cumulatively (even when factoring in their profitable quarters). There was a piece in C&D long ago (wish I could find it) that basically said that any automaker can make a great car given a huge or unlimited amount of $. But the problem is, they need to meet a certain price and profit point while providing what's expected at that price level. And, the price needs to be set in a way that the # of projected units sold --> profit.

You won't sell any $100K or $200K cars that are like Nissan Versas. Yet Lamborghini can't sell cars like their current sports cars for $15K.

Tesla clearly can produce cars with incredible range, straight line performance, an awesome DC FC network while having a great brand image but hasn't been able to do it at a profit despite them being expensive cars w/theoretically high margins. High margins are generally tough(er) on cheaper cars.
I don't know it's just me but I look at the Chevy bolt, I look at the Nissan Leaf... I really feel we can do much better. It really doesn't look like $30k to me. It looks more $18k.

i would say the Chevy volt is a more attractive option. We get to drive 50 miles a day on electrity (wife's commute), it works on 110 volt (Chevy bolt or Nissan Leaf would not tesla would with weekly supercharging), then we have a tank of gas...

Side not but look at a balance sheet and income statement of an automaker... they really don't make much money. Highly capital intensive, poor returns.. some automakers would make more money parking the money in government bonds and going to the beach
 
Does the new leaf battery have an Active Thermal Management system unlike the passively managed gen1 leafs?

It boggles my mind that on the mynissan leaf forums that people think the passive pack design is somehow an advantage in that it is more stable, less parts to break, and no vampire losses. At the same time a huge number of threads are about how many bars are lost or left on the pack meter.

I don't get it, so they'd accept the possibility in hot climates to PERMANENTLY lose 10-20+% of capacity in a few years, than to use 1 - 5% of the pack on a active thermal management system when needed?
 
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I suspect the 2018 Leaf will be not sold at MSRP for a very long time (will be some incentives), whereas Teslas (unless inventory or used) always sell at MSRP.

I wouldn't be surprised if '18 Leaf leases will be cheaper than Model 3 leases.

+1

I expect the new Leaf's to be discounted quite heavily to move them, and the lease deals should be quite attractive.

Tesla leases are usually not very attractive unless you're in a position to write off the lease as a business expense.
 
Re: 6.6 kW OBC on ALL (US?) Leafs, DaveinOlyWA: 2018 LEAF! confirms it. He apparen

It's not. It's available (as an option) for all, but is not "on ALL" 2018 Leafs. Your own link correctly stipulates that, as does the official Leaf site.

leafcharger.JPG