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2018 Nissan Leaf - $29,990. 40kWh battery
- Thread starter Nuclear Fusion
- Start date
^ I'm looking for reliability, just like other car owners who keep their cars until repair costs become impractical.
I'm not cancelling my Model 3 reservation yet since it doesn't make sense to cancel until I'm sure another BEV can fulfill my household needs but will look closely into:
TACC can wait. I will not be shelling out $5k for TACC especially if the car will not shift left or right if all is clear to avoid a side or rear collision.
I'm not cancelling my Model 3 reservation yet since it doesn't make sense to cancel until I'm sure another BEV can fulfill my household needs but will look closely into:
- Right to Repair
- ESA details especially on the drive unit and battery coverage
- Heated Steering Wheel
TACC can wait. I will not be shelling out $5k for TACC especially if the car will not shift left or right if all is clear to avoid a side or rear collision.
chronopc
Active Member
They are going to start shipping the base Model 3 this December.
Edit: Actually that just the estimate Tesla gave me for when I could get one, they actually should be starting in November: "Additional configurations, including the Model 3 with standard equipment for $35,000, will become available as production ramps, which we expect to be in November 2017."
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What Nissan should do is use their racing pedigree and expertise designing the likes of Nissan GTRs to do a performance EV. I really hope that will happen sooner than later. At least that way Tesla will realise this is a global marketplace they are dealing with and it's simply not acceptable to treat the international market as an after thought - especially since this is the third time round they are repeating this.
In the meantime I think Gen 2 Leaf will sell decent numbers and especially overseas, it will take a good bite off Model 3 preorders - not that they are equal but I can imagine a good chunk of the early reservation holders will be content with a cheap & reliable EV .
I haven't cancelled mine because I'd like to wait this 18 months out and see (I'm in Canada so late 2018 is my estimated delivery for all three configurations) but just joined a Nissan Leaf Forum:
News & Main LEAF Discussion - My Nissan Leaf Forum
A 60 kWh Leaf would be enough for me to lean towards a Nissan. I'll be test driving the Leaf, the non-Clarity Honda, the Korean SUV BEVs and the 3 for sure. Didn't bother test driving our past two cars (11 Accord coupe and 16 RAV4 Hybrid) but I think I'll be a little more picky with the third car purchase especially since the differences among the BEVs will be more substantial (amenities, charging details, price points, delivery dates).
Reciprocity
Active Member
The 200,000 was a very rough estimate, but for my original argument it doesn't really matter because Nissan nor anyone else will deliver more EVs in the first half of 2018. Currently, Elon has stated 5k/w run rate exiting 2017 and growing to 10k/w... which was a 100% guaranteed by Elon by the end of 2018. 6 months is 26 weeks x 5000 = 130,000 but that number assume there is no improvements to production over that 6 month period. But I get your point. If Tesla is close to 200,000 in Dec 2017, they will delay deliveries in the US and deliver more outside the US in the 4th quarter so that they can maximize credits for Tesla customers. Point being is that they have some flexibility on when and who they deliver cars to at the end. Others that I trust have them hitting that magical 200,000 no later then Mid Jan 2018, which would give them almost 2 full quarters.
Not really.
Tesla appears likely to hit 200,000 early in 2018 with M3 ramp-up.
According to InsideEVs sales scorecard, Nissan is currently only at 112,000 total sales. If Leaf sales continue at last year's pace of 14,000/year, they wouldn't hit 200k until 2024.
Or, if Nissan managed to match their previous annual sales record of ~30,000/yr (which they hit in 2014) going forward, they still wouldn't hit 200k until late in 2020.
Dynastar
Member
They're very reliable if you have mild temperatures. What's the Norway equivalent of Phoenix?
Reciprocity
Active Member
Not based on this:
US Federal $7,500 Electric Vehicle Credit Expiry Date By Automaker
This was 7 months ago and Nissan was only behind Tesla by ~7,000 units. This puts Nissan out of credits in late 2019.
So what you are saying is if they dont sell any cars, they will be able to sell more later.. and if they do sell a bunch of cars then they wont be able to sell them as long. Got it. My guess is they wont hit there annual sales records again because they will be competing with Model 3. Or to put it another way, the new leaf is not competition for the Model 3.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Well, it all depends on the sales projections.
That article/chart from January estimated 25k Leaf sales in the US in 2017. Through July they've only sold 8,531.
Then it estimates 60k Leaf sales in the US in 2018, more than double Nissan's previous best year. That seems like a stretch.
If the next-gen Leaf arrives in the next month or two and immediately takes off with high production levels and record-busting sales, then I suppose those estimates could be born out. But I wouldn't bet on it myself.
I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though. More EVs on the road would be a good thing, no matter which automaker puts them there.
Between Nissan, Mitsubishi and Renault it's quite safe to assume the next three years will see lots of exciting ne BEV's coming from them. Nissan made an excellent first try, despite the famous hot-weather deficiencies, and they've learned quite a lot that most of the others don't even imagine they may need to learn.
There's room for everyone. If I needed a third car it would probably be a leaf. I don't.
Perhaps because Nissan was a long-time client I am sympathetic with them. For the same reason I am less enamored with GM. That does not matter. What does matter is that both are making BEV's that are interesting enough tomato people talk and some people are buying them. They aren't Tesla. They will be a few years before they can addle high volume fully equipped ICE replacement vehicles. They both need to see DC Fast as a hygiene issue, not an option. They both need to keep going on network charging. Nissan is the only one besides Tesla that ever even made an attempt.
My perspective may be warped. I often drive a BYD E6 and like it. I drove a Mitsubishi iMiev and like that too, but that was not even my first kei car. Maybe warped is not a strong enough statement.
There's room for everyone. If I needed a third car it would probably be a leaf. I don't.
Perhaps because Nissan was a long-time client I am sympathetic with them. For the same reason I am less enamored with GM. That does not matter. What does matter is that both are making BEV's that are interesting enough tomato people talk and some people are buying them. They aren't Tesla. They will be a few years before they can addle high volume fully equipped ICE replacement vehicles. They both need to see DC Fast as a hygiene issue, not an option. They both need to keep going on network charging. Nissan is the only one besides Tesla that ever even made an attempt.
My perspective may be warped. I often drive a BYD E6 and like it. I drove a Mitsubishi iMiev and like that too, but that was not even my first kei car. Maybe warped is not a strong enough statement.
The Leaf is a great car. I leased one for three years and was very happy with it. Grabbing a used one for cheap for your kid is a great idea. The only issue with your plan for when she goes to college is charging might be a major issue for her there with no dedicated spot and overnight charging.
$29,990 MSRP, that means you can knock off few grand at the dealer thru negotiation. After federal and state rebates, you can get this car for about $18k. Not a bad deal for someone who does not care how a car looks as long its functional. Plus you get a bit more reliable car than Teslas. My two leafs that I drove for 5 years gave me zero problems.
I won’t be buying another Leaf because I just want a change of scenery, but for some this might be perfect commuter car or their first EV. As expected, Tesla is going to have some solid competition, this is great news for EVs and a win for consumers.
I won’t be buying another Leaf because I just want a change of scenery, but for some this might be perfect commuter car or their first EV. As expected, Tesla is going to have some solid competition, this is great news for EVs and a win for consumers.
Is a $5k difference on a $30k car really that much though? I feel like if I were making such a huge purchase, I would not settle over a few grand, but rather I would wait one more year and save up that $5k. Or drink half as much beer throughout the year if you're paying installments. Seems like such a drastic dropoff in performance, features, and styling for $5k. Totally worth stretching for if $30k is fine, but $35k is out of your budget.
If the Leaf sales dont boost from this new version what does it matter. It isnt acting as the competition that people believe it will be.
Yeah, that's why I'm not concerned with the tax credit thing in general. People bemoan the fact that late comers to the EV game will have an advantage over Tesla because they will still have the tax credit and Tesla won't. Thing is, if they are real competition then their tax credit won't last long.
Robert831
Member
n00bie
Member
RWD > FWD.
Nissan leaf is FWD and it's cheaper to build (FWD cars ex. Civic, Corolla, Prius, etc), but the downside with FWD is that it's fragile and you'll need new CV joint/boots (front axles) every 50,000 miles ($1k+ for parts and labor). It's still $5000 or more than others FWD cars.
RWD cars can take more abuse, ex. you won't break anything when hit a curb or pothole, but you pay higher cost upfront.
Nissan leaf is FWD and it's cheaper to build (FWD cars ex. Civic, Corolla, Prius, etc), but the downside with FWD is that it's fragile and you'll need new CV joint/boots (front axles) every 50,000 miles ($1k+ for parts and labor). It's still $5000 or more than others FWD cars.
RWD cars can take more abuse, ex. you won't break anything when hit a curb or pothole, but you pay higher cost upfront.
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