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2019.28.1

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The question is, is it just cosmetic or is this actually what the car uses to make decisions? The “dancing” itself is probably a cosmetic problem but when cars pop in and out of existence or teleport from one lane to the other then it is a functional/safety problem. See the threads about blind spot monitoring.

Today my Model 3 got again confused by an erratically identified vehicle. So annoying having a frantic warning with a spinning car rendered in red if in reality everything is clear.

I can’t imagine trusting this obviously flawed system. No wonder it’s phantom braking, running over barrels and into vehicles that are partially in the lane.
It’s pretty scary to think about. Whenever I look at dash cam footage and all the corruption/pixilation I’m reminded that this distorted video is mostly what the car is using for autopilot. I think that’s why it doesn’t seem to be improving as much as it should be. There’s only so much you can do with cameras even in perfect weather, especially when the footage is systematically corrupted.
Add in rain, snow or fog and things get even more scary.
 
It’s pretty scary to think about. Whenever I look at dash cam footage and all the corruption/pixilation I’m reminded that this distorted video is mostly what the car is using for autopilot. I think that’s why it doesn’t seem to be improving as much as it should be. There’s only so much you can do with cameras even in perfect weather, especially when the footage is systematically corrupted.
Add in rain, snow or fog and things get even more scary.
I think the odds of this being true, are slim to none. Think about it for a second, 1080p video cameras, how old is that tech? What is your current cellphone capable of? More likely, little priority or prior design, went into ensuring dash cam or its footage is saved properly (what if you have a slow/shitty thumb drive plugged in?).

Further, if there was a flaw such as this, it would be recall worthy and already happened. This is the off-the-shelf side of the tech which is their bread and butter.
 
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I think the odds of this being true, are slim to none. Think about it for a second, 1080p video cameras, how old is that tech? What is your current cellphone capable of? More likely, little priority or prior design, went into ensuring dash cam or its footage is saved properly (what if you have a slow/shitty thumb drive plugged in?).

Further, if there was a flaw such as this, it would be recall worthy and already happened. This is the off-the-shelf side of the tech which is their bread and butter.

It’s probably a sloppy H.265 implementation on HW3. If the car is moving it’ll have to encode “harder” than when it’s sitting still. Could be a bug that only shows up when the camera feed is fairly static. I don’t buy the “slow storage” excuse.

Question is, why does that get released? It’s like the “dancing” cars. Sloppy SW. Does Tesla still have a SW QC team or did they get laid off/left on their own?
 
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It’s probably a sloppy H.265 implementation on HW3. If the car is moving it’ll have to encode “harder” than when it’s sitting still. Could be a bug that only shows up when the camera feed is fairly static. I don’t buy the “slow storage” excuse.

Question is, why does that get released? It’s like the “dancing” cars. Sloppy SW. Does Tesla still have a SW QC team or did they get laid off/left on their own?
If it's hardware encoding of H265, there should be practically zero bottleneck - especially if the overall speed claims of HW3 are accurate (as other then storing clips for fleet learning, it shouldn't need to encode/decode live feeds for internal use). Though this is definitely a hypothesis based off of little, other than how small of a package/TDP, H265 encoding/decoding can happen in.

Anecdotally, I've seen the bug in my own Model 3 and it seemed to happen far, far less frequently when I replaced the shitty/old thumb drive, with something new and substantially faster (think vendor/free USB drive, compared to USB 3 Thumb drive with stated 115MB/sec specs).
 
Of course I do... Do you think it’s possible for a company to assign more resources/budget (more people or dollars) to non games (make this more of a priority) than to the game generating department (less people and money there)??? If so, the updates may contain more substance (AP, FSD, bug fixes, etc). That was my point made two pages ago that you quoted. :)

So again, your point is still to stop spending resources on games and shift them to FSD....

You still don’t get it. :)
 
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So again, your point is still to stop spending resources on games and shift them to FSD....

You still don’t get it. :)

I think you don’t get it.

Tesla isn’t Alphabet, swimming in money so it should be managed better.

How about Tesla spends money and effort on keeping their autonomous driving team happy and stable instead of spending money on silly things?

That doesn’t mean that Joe the SW guy who ported MAME over to the Tesla infotainment should be assigned the task of improving the FSD NN as you seem to think.
 
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OK... but I do.

The way it actually works is like this: (I am using YOU as an example so please use common sense)

You are driving a Tesla Model 3 in Autopilot. Your car has curb detection running in shadow mode. It is also collecting images of cars with trailers on 2 lane highways in the background. And at a specific turn you override Autopilot because your not happy with the distance between you and another car.

Now all of that data gets sent to Tesla.

Tesla's AP engineers will first run validations on all of that data. First to see if the AP intervention was due to a problem or bad driving habits and secondly to see if the corrective measures taken improve safety or if there was a better way to handle the scenario.
They also parse any data gleaned from the shadow mode operations or special requests.

Once validations are complete, the data goes in to an internal build where it is further validated in an actual vehicle. This is done first by employees, then by beta testers. From there the build is tweaked until the revision (the .x at the end of the build number) gets final validation and is released to a limited group, then the masses.

Now if you were the only driver on the road, I could see this sort of update happening once or twice a year. But tens of thousands if not more hours of data are being validated at a time and the validation process never stops so every week there is new data that is ready to be submitted to a build.

THAT IS HOW IT WORKS!

Major releases such as the change from V9 to V10 add major improvements and features. Like GUI Improvements, Text Messaging, Advanced Summon... Those happen once.. maybe twice a year. More likely just once a year though.

Do you work at Tesla or somehow have firsthand knowledge of their engineering system? I don’t, but I am a Principal software architect at Microsoft who specializes in both modern software engineering + delivery practices and machine learning (particularly on-device ML and end-to-end feedback loop systems like what Tesla uses). I only bring this up because as long as we’re both speculating, I’m going to continue using my experience to inform my speculation.

Parts of your explanation are likely accurate, but other parts are almost certainly not. I think it is very unlikely that their data collection and retraining systems are automatically spitting out new outputs and automatically pushing them into the next builds from master. I won’t say it’s impossible, but we have no information pointing to that, and I would put my money on the NN pieces being trained, experimented with, and validated in an independent system and only when something is available which scores higher on their metrics is it submitted (e.g. via Pull Request from a topic branch) into master. There is no requirement that this happen every week, and I’m quite skeptical that it does in practice.
 
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I think you don’t get it.

Tesla isn’t Alphabet, swimming in money so it should be managed better.

How about Tesla spends money and effort on keeping their autonomous driving team happy and stable instead of spending money on silly things?

That doesn’t mean that Joe the SW guy who ported MAME over to the Tesla infotainment should be assigned the task of improving the FSD NN as you seem to think.

Omg.
What do you think they’re doing. ?

So you would rather receive no updates until FSD is done ?
Is that your amazing business advice to Elon and Tesla.
Stop all updates including games, until FSD is complete.
You clearly have no idea how a business runs behind the scenes.
 
no luck this is what i got when i scheduled the appointment. I am not sure but i believe this may have something to do with my car being made in June and having hw3
Hmmm.... bummer. Well, hopefully it will update soon. If it doesn't update in the next couple of weeks, I'd try the service request again. What actually happens may depend on who actually reads your request. Another trick I've heard of is to actually go to the Tesla Service Center and try to get your car to connect to their wifi. There's anecdotal evidence that if you do this it will update faster.
 
Tesla is starting to push 2019.28.2 a little bit this evening. I just finished installing it myself. Took a total of 30 minutes to install upgrading from 2019.24.4 which seems longer than usual, at least compared to the last bunch of updates that seemed to average around 22-24 minutes per install.

I was surprised to receive the update so early in the rollout. Maybe Tesla knows I have dogs because I’ve activated Dog Mode before and they’re pushing the update to dog owners first? Probably not, but that would be cool. :D

Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing if the Bluetooth volume changes will fix the issues I’ve seen with reduced volume when streaming from the SiriusXM app on my iPhone.
 
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Do you work at Tesla or somehow have firsthand knowledge of their engineering system? I don’t, but I am a Principal software architect at Microsoft who specializes in both modern software engineering + delivery practices and machine learning (particularly on-device ML and end-to-end feedback loop systems like what Tesla uses). I only bring this up because as long as we’re both speculating, I’m going to continue using my experience to inform my speculation.

Parts of your explanation are likely accurate, but other parts are almost certainly not. I think it is very unlikely that their data collection and retraining systems are automatically spitting out new outputs and automatically pushing them into the next builds from master. I won’t say it’s impossible, but we have no information pointing to that, and I would put my money on the NN pieces being trained, experimented with, and validated in an independent system and only when something is available which scores higher on their metrics is it submitted (e.g. via Pull Request from a topic branch) into master. There is no requirement that this happen every week, and I’m quite skeptical that it does in practice.

The best your going to get out of my is that I do not post speculation unless I first specify so in my post.
I respect your skepticism and wish that I could appease it but my hands are tied.

P.S. I never said anything about automatically pushing training data in to new builds anywhere in any of my posts. There are many humans involved in the process.

You wont get any more replies from me on this topic. Believe what you want, no *sugar*'s given.
 
no luck this is what i got when i scheduled the appointment. I am not sure but i believe this may have something to do with my car being made in June and having hw3

If you are running Hardware 3.0 then you will tend to be behind a bit for now, but if things go well with Version 10 roll-out, you will be ahead of the 2.5 going forward for a fair bit while all the FSD folks wait to get their hardware upgraded to 3.0.
 
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If you are running Hardware 3.0 then you will tend to be behind a bit for now, but if things go well with Version 10 roll-out, you will be ahead of the 2.5 going forward for a fair bit while all the FSD folks wait to get their hardware upgraded to 3.0.
Looks like things are about to get interesting in the FSD department with v10. Maybe the improved highway Autopilot and traffic light/stop sign recognition will require the FSD computer?

Interesting that Elon mentioned improved Stop Sign Recognition with v10, since current firmware doesn't do anything pertaining to stop signs.

If that is indeed the case, I'm guessing that FSD upgrades would begin soon thereafter.
 
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It’s pretty scary to think about. Whenever I look at dash cam footage and all the corruption/pixilation I’m reminded that this distorted video is mostly what the car is using for autopilot. I think that’s why it doesn’t seem to be improving as much as it should be. There’s only so much you can do with cameras even in perfect weather, especially when the footage is systematically corrupted.
Add in rain, snow or fog and things get even more scary.


You have no idea what you are talking about! maybe educate yourself a little bit. Autonomy keynote is a good start for you
 
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Anecdotally, I've seen the bug in my own Model 3 and it seemed to happen far, far less frequently when I replaced the shitty/old thumb drive, with something new and substantially faster (think vendor/free USB drive, compared to USB 3 Thumb drive with stated 115MB/sec specs).

If drive speed/quality were the cause, then I would expect all 3 camera feeds to exhibit the corruption behavior. I don't believe this is the case. From what I've heard people report, it's either only the left repeater or the right repeater feed that is corrupted.

And because the corruption is only on one repeater for any given car, it doesn't explain dancing cars on the good side of the car. If there's some correlation between dancing cars and the corrupt repeater video, it's that both events happen when the car is stationary. But I highly doubt AP is rendering dancing cars because it's having difficulty making out a corrupted video stream.

Sorry @PoitNarf for the dancing off-topic :D