2019.8.5 - NoAP Dangerous new nag behavior

[FairhavenSails]

I saw in some of the other forum post that the "hands on the wheel" nag behavior had become more aggressive. What I didn't realize is that it now adds so really dangerous behavior.

I encountered this a couple of times the first day after the update. Driving along on the highway NoAP is on and traffic is light/moderate. I have one hand on the wheel with a light grip. The old nag would flash a blue warning on the screen if it didn't detect a wheel torque, wait a little, then flash a red warning, and finally start to take action (I only got to the red warning once in four months and only rarely the blue warning).

The new nag version appears to go straight to a red warning accompanied by a dramatic slow down. In my case I was in NoAP with cruise set to speed limit of 60. With my hand and grip positioned as had been adequate in the past the red warning came on and the cruise dropped to 40 and the car slowed dramatically. I of course immediately gave a hard twitch to the wheel and NoAP resumed 60 cruise speed. This happened twice and in neither case did I detect a blue warning (though if it was short enough I might have missed it because I was watching traffic).

When this happened to me it didn't create a big problem because traffic was light, but I hate to think of the consequences is this had been in heavy traffic. If I didn't get rear ended, I might still set off a crash behind me.

Since then I have maintained a firm two handed grip on the wheel, which sort of defeats the usefulness of NoAP. In my efforts to assure sufficient resistance I have occasionally caused autosteer to quit.

I appreciate that Tesla had to be seen to combat the problem of sleeping drivers as reported in the news, but I think they need to rethink this a bit. Perhaps a two stage alert 1) Blue flash and chime 2) Red alert with Count down to action (say 3 seconds) with increasingly loud chimes say ... "bing, Bing Bing, BING BING BING."

 

[Knightshade]

What firmware are you on? I still get the blue warning first on 2019.8.5

 

[chillaban]

Direct escalation to red has always been there, it’s just been presented in more and more situations.

It means AP is dramatically less confident of the lane lines or thinks the driving path is coming to an end. And yes if you don’t respond to that right away it begins emergency slowing down and throwing on the hazards.


It’s not ideal of course but if the alternative is to blindly silently plow ahead with the risk of sudden unexpected steering inputs, slowing down is always a safer option for you.

 

[FairhavenSails]

Hmm...upon further testing I think chillaban might be right that the two sudden slow downs I experienced were direct escalations rather than as a result of "hands on nag" behavior. I've made a couple of drives on NoAP since then and have not had any repeats and in fact found that NoAP actually seems to be slightly improved.

The mystery to me is what would have caused the direct escalations. The weather was good, no glare, light traffic, and travel was on a highway that NoAP has routinely handled a couple of times per week.

This does raise a minor quibble about the messaging provided. When I got the red warning messages they were warnings to show that your hands were on the wheel. If the issue was "navigational uncertainty" it would be helpful to get that info. I also find the occasional "Autosteer temporarily unavailable" message to be particularly unhelpful. With no specifics as to why the request failed, I am left to blindly try altered behaviors to try and determine successful activation strategies..

 

[Saguarojoe]

Hmm...upon further testing I think chillaban might be right that the two sudden slow downs I experienced were direct escalations rather than as a result of "hands on nag" behavior. I've made a couple of drives on NoAP since then and have not had any repeats and in fact found that NoAP actually seems to be slightly improved.

The mystery to me is what would have caused the direct escalations. The weather was good, no glare, light traffic, and travel was on a highway that NoAP has routinely handled a couple of times per week.

This does raise a minor quibble about the messaging provided. When I got the red warning messages they were warnings to show that your hands were on the wheel. If the issue was "navigational uncertainty" it would be helpful to get that info. I also find the occasional "Autosteer temporarily unavailable" message to be particularly unhelpful. With no specifics as to why the request failed, I am left to blindly try altered behaviors to try and determine successful activation strategies..

If the gray wheel icon is not present where the blue one does when EAP is active then EAP is not available.

 

[Saguarojoe]

I saw in some of the other forum post that the "hands on the wheel" nag behavior had become more aggressive. What I didn't realize is that it now adds so really dangerous behavior.

I encountered this a couple of times the first day after the update. Driving along on the highway NoAP is on and traffic is light/moderate. I have one hand on the wheel with a light grip. The old nag would flash a blue warning on the screen if it didn't detect a wheel torque, wait a little, then flash a red warning, and finally start to take action (I only got to the red warning once in four months and only rarely the blue warning).

The new nag version appears to go straight to a red warning accompanied by a dramatic slow down. In my case I was in NoAP with cruise set to speed limit of 60. With my hand and grip positioned as had been adequate in the past the red warning came on and the cruise dropped to 40 and the car slowed dramatically. I of course immediately gave a hard twitch to the wheel and NoAP resumed 60 cruise speed. This happened twice and in neither case did I detect a blue warning (though if it was short enough I might have missed it because I was watching traffic).

When this happened to me it didn't create a big problem because traffic was light, but I hate to think of the consequences is this had been in heavy traffic. If I didn't get rear ended, I might still set off a crash behind me.

Since then I have maintained a firm two handed grip on the wheel, which sort of defeats the usefulness of NoAP. In my efforts to assure sufficient resistance I have occasionally caused autosteer to quit.

I appreciate that Tesla had to be seen to combat the problem of sleeping drivers as reported in the news, but I think they need to rethink this a bit. Perhaps a two stage alert 1) Blue flash and chime 2) Red alert with Count down to action (say 3 seconds) with increasingly loud chimes say ... "bing, Bing Bing, BING BING BING."

In my experience it's best to make sure you grip the wheel so that it always feels resistance. EAP is not perfect. Medians can be death traps. There was a man who recently met a fiery death after his car hit a median. No details from Tesla yet but I suspect it might have been something like a light touch combined with inattention.

 

[diamond.g]

Hmm...upon further testing I think chillaban might be right that the two sudden slow downs I experienced were direct escalations rather than as a result of "hands on nag" behavior. I've made a couple of drives on NoAP since then and have not had any repeats and in fact found that NoAP actually seems to be slightly improved.

The mystery to me is what would have caused the direct escalations. The weather was good, no glare, light traffic, and travel was on a highway that NoAP has routinely handled a couple of times per week.

This does raise a minor quibble about the messaging provided. When I got the red warning messages they were warnings to show that your hands were on the wheel. If the issue was "navigational uncertainty" it would be helpful to get that info. I also find the occasional "Autosteer temporarily unavailable" message to be particularly unhelpful. With no specifics as to why the request failed, I am left to blindly try altered behaviors to try and determine successful activation strategies..

When NoAP first came out , on my route to work it actually told me that it's capability was reduced while I was in a construction zone, and when I was on an interchange. I haven't seen such messaging since.

 

[Knightshade]

When NoAP first came out , on my route to work it actually told me that it's capability was reduced while I was in a construction zone, and when I was on an interchange. I haven't seen such messaging since.

I've seen the limited due to construction message a few times... usually when there's orange barrels or something visible.

I also see the limited due to weather message (honestly more lately- including this morning in the middle of a NoA trip when the rain got heavier and it just drops back to normal EAP)