2019 Leaf - 64kWh battery w/thermal management, >225mi range, 100kW fast charge

[renim]

62kWh
160 Kw motor output
New display with new nav system
70kw charging 100 peak
OTA Updates
Jap launch straight away.
EU Q2 19
Air cooled pack
22kw AC charging.

Europe, your EV is here.

22kW AC may not be a big deal in USA, but anything less is a compromise in EU.

 

[hiroshiy]

When I read Nissan's press release in Japanese, it supports 100kW chargers but it charges at 70kW max. That's why they didn't require thermal management, IMHO.

 

[Yggdrasill]

The reception here in Norway is pretty muted. Starts at approximately $46.000 including metallic. That's well equipped, but still...

People are hoping the Model 3 SR/MR will get here soon...

 

[Yggdrasill]

And that they're sticking to CHAdeMO in Europe is ridiculous. There won't be anywhere to charge it in a few years. And forget 100 kW CHAdeMO - that will likely never be rolled out. The current 50 kW chargers is as good as it's going to get in Europe.

(AFAIK - the Leaf is the last remaining car with CHAdeMO. The rest have switched to CCS.)

 

[Jeff N]

And that they're sticking to CHAdeMO in Europe is ridiculous. There won't be anywhere to charge it in a few years. And forget 100 kW CHAdeMO - that will likely never be rolled out. The current 50 kW chargers is as good as it's going to get in Europe.

(AFAIK - the Leaf is the last remaining car with CHAdeMO. The rest have switched to CCS.)

I suspect the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV SUV still uses CHAdeMO in Europe although I haven’t checked. But, since it is a PHEV, you can get by without charging if you are away from your usual AC charging locations.

I agree that staying with CHAdeMO on the new LEAF seems like a mistake in Europe and probably also in North America. Many of the new higher power chargers won’t have CHAdeMO cables although most are probably capable of being easily converted. Charging providers in some areas are installing dual cable CCS/CHAdeMO high power chargers as in Norway but many other regions won’t do this.

 

[Jeff N]

When I read Nissan's press release in Japanese, it supports 100kW chargers but it charges at 70kW max. That's why they didn't require thermal management, IMHO.

My understanding from the Las Vegas briefing is that the LEAF e+ is actually capable of charging at a peak near 100 kW but that the average charging power is closer 70 kW during a longer charge such as near empty to 80 percent (which takes about 45 minutes).

Actually achieving 100 kW requires more than a “100 kW” charger since those are actually rated at 200A. At a 200A charger the new LEAF might get a peak charge rate of around 70 kW.

As far as I know, the highest power CHAdeMO cables and connector that are certified and commercially available are limited to 200A. The higher-powered CHAdeMO cables with liquid-cooling are still going through testing, I think.

 

[renim]

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jDof19bT...vE27-CZ3IyX5HfK_7eoFZySQCLcBGAs/s1600/EUR.PNG

Currently the best selling plug in vehicle in europe has chademo, and the 2nd best selling vehicle in europe has AC22kw. Combining the 2 should provide for a lot of success in europe, as they represent the hoi polloi purchasing decisions.

The real tassle is between AC on vehicle chargers VS DC off vehicle chargers. Which will win, AC eventually.

What happens to the 2nd owners of 60kWh class EVs Will they use DC chargers enough to keep them open? Or will they just use AC22 at home and destination? Its just that AC22 is so cheap to install.

 

[hiroshiy]

My understanding from the Las Vegas briefing is that the LEAF e+ is actually capable of charging at a peak near 100 kW but that the average charging power is closer 70 kW during a longer charge such as near empty to 80 percent (which takes about 45 minutes).

Actually achieving 100 kW requires more than a “100 kW” charger since those are actually rated at 200A. At a 200A charger the new LEAF might get a peak charge rate of around 70 kW.

As far as I know, the highest power CHAdeMO cables and connector that are certified and commercially available are limited to 200A. The higher-powered CHAdeMO cables with liquid-cooling are still going through testing, I think.

According to CHAdeMO terms 100kW means 250A, which doesn't exist for now. I'm still skeptical whether Leaf can take 100kW though. Japanese language is pretty clear that it charges at 70kW...
Also another reasoning: if the charger cable is not 250A continuous certified, how the HV cable INSIDE of a Leaf 250A (a.k.a. 100kW) certified?

 

[renim]

According to CHAdeMO terms 100kW means 250A, which doesn't exist for now. I'm still skeptical whether Leaf can take 100kW though. Japanese language is pretty clear that it charges at 70kW...
Also another reasoning: if the charger cable is not 250A continuous certified, how the HV cable INSIDE of a Leaf 250A (a.k.a. 100kW) certified?

legally in the real world, continuous and intermittent can be are different.
for example, tesla cannot sustain full power As Expected, Tesla Model S Fails To Lap Nurburgring Under Full Power yet thats ok, because it is an intermittent power rating. nothing like a 24hr continuous power rating

lithium ion batteries are primarily safety limited for recharge, followed by longevity limited.

 

[Jeff N]

According to CHAdeMO terms 100kW means 250A, which doesn't exist for now. I'm still skeptical whether Leaf can take 100kW though. Japanese language is pretty clear that it charges at 70kW...
Also another reasoning: if the charger cable is not 250A continuous certified, how the HV cable INSIDE of a Leaf 250A (a.k.a. 100kW) certified?

Charger power ratings are little messy to talk about especially now that we have chargers that support 920 to 1,000V. A charger with an output limit of 200A might be able to output 100 kW to a Porsche Taycan at 800V but not to a LEAF e+ at 360V.

The cabling and battery pack inside the LEAF e+ is already designed to handle short periods of 160 kW of motor output and cabling in a Tesla can obviously handle 100+ kW charging for extended periods of time. It’s well-understood how to do that.

The reason why cabling from the charging dispenser to the car is an issue is due to the awkwardness of lifting and bending a long heavy cable that has to be surrounded by a thick layer of tough outdoor insulation. Also, the pins on the connector get plugged in thousands of times and may not have ideal contact with the inlet so cooling is necessary to keep the connector from getting too warm to be touched by people.

The article below says a prototype LEAF e+ was seen charging at 32 percent state of charge (probably at around 360 to 365V) at 102 kW. That implies a charging current of around 280A.

I think this was happening at an multi-company engineering standards test event, sometimes called a “connectathon” in the computer industry, where different prototype equipment is compatibility tested. I assume that a prototype CHAdeMO liquid-cooled cable was used but I don’t know that for sure. These events are supposed to be private and confidential so that tweet shouldn’t have been sent and was deleted.

2019 Nissan LEAF With 60-kWh Battery Test Charges At 102 kW

 

[miimura]

Also, EVTEC charging a prototype or pre-production vehicle at 102kW doesn't necessarily mean that the production vehicle will do the same, even on the same equipment.

 

[hiroshiy]

Charger power ratings are little messy to talk about especially now that we have chargers that support 920 to 1,000V. A charger with an output limit of 200A might be able to output 100 kW to a Porsche Taycan at 800V but not to a LEAF e+ at 360V.

The cabling and battery pack inside the LEAF e+ is already designed to handle short periods of 160 kW of motor output and cabling in a Tesla can obviously handle 100+ kW charging for extended periods of time. It’s well-understood how to do that.

The reason why cabling from the charging dispenser to the car is an issue is due to the awkwardness of lifting and bending a long heavy cable that has to be surrounded by a thick layer of tough outdoor insulation. Also, the pins on the connector get plugged in thousands of times and may not have ideal contact with the inlet so cooling is necessary to keep the connector from getting too warm to be touched by people.

The article below says a prototype LEAF e+ was seen charging at 32 percent state of charge (probably at around 360 to 365V) at 102 kW. That implies a charging current of around 280A.

I think this was happening at an multi-company engineering standards test event, sometimes called a “connectathon” in the computer industry, where different prototype equipment is compatibility tested. I assume that a prototype CHAdeMO liquid-cooled cable was used but I don’t know that for sure. These events are supposed to be private and confidential so that tweet shouldn’t have been sent and was deleted.

2019 Nissan LEAF With 60-kWh Battery Test Charges At 102 kW

I know at that event Leaf and Tesla were able to charge over 100kW, both using prototype equipment. Tesla was also using CHAdeMO adapter, which also considered to be prototype.

Will see what will Nissan say when actual 90kW rated CHAdeMO chargers are deployed in Japan in a few months.

 

[Jeff N]

Also, EVTEC charging a prototype or pre-production vehicle at 102kW doesn't necessarily mean that the production vehicle will do the same, even on the same equipment.

Correct, but Nissan execs at the LEAF PLUS media briefing in Las Vegas last week said quite clearly in discussions with a few reporters including me after the main briefing that the car can charge at a peak power of around 100 kW. What they said was consistent with the earlier EVTEC tweet during that equipment test event.

 

[Jeff N]

I know at that event Leaf and Tesla were able to charge over 100kW, both using prototype equipment. Tesla was also using CHAdeMO adapter, which also considered to be prototype.

Will see what will Nissan say when actual 90kW rated CHAdeMO chargers are deployed in Japan in a few months.

Are you saying that Tesla was testing a prototype of an updated CHAdeMO adapter that is rated for more than 125A?

 

[hiroshiy]

Are you saying that Tesla was testing a prototype of an updated CHAdeMO adapter that is rated for more than 125A?

Yes at least at that CHAdeMO event. But not sure they have a plan to sell or not, considering CCS situation in other markets than Japan.

 

[Jeff N]

I wrote an article talking about the practical usefulness of the 100 kW peak charging of the new 62 kWh LEAF.

https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/14/nissan-leaf-plus-can-charge-at-near-100-kw-but-where/

When Nissan revealed the new 62 kWh LEAF model last week it told reporters that the car can charge at a peak rate of around 100 kW which raises the question — where does one find a CHAdeMO charger that can allow the new LEAF to charge at that rate?

You might think that a so-called “100 kW” charger would do the job but you would probably be wrong. That’s because chargers labeled as “100 kW” may have a peak current output of only 200A and actual car batteries are designed to charge at voltages much lower than 500V.

 

[hill]

When I read Nissan's press release in Japanese, it supports 100kW chargers but it charges at 70kW max. That's why they didn't require thermal management, IMHO.

actually - it won't evev pull 45k once it's been charged once on that day already ..... then it quickly drops off from there - self preservation .... passive thermal sement means it's too hot to take another QC. Better get a hotel if you're driving cross country, suckers.
-

 

[renim]

FWIW Japanese range test specs, should correlate to EU cycles, its about 42% more range than 40kWh version.

 

[Eevee]

What are they saying it will cost?

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

View attachment 369681

FWIW Japanese range test specs, should correlate to EU cycles, its about 42% more range than 40kWh version.

It's 50+% higher on the UDDS.

https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2019/nissan_pc_a0150839_0_z_e.pdf
https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2019/nissan_pc_a0150838_0_z_e.pdf

It's within a few miles of the Niro and Bolt, so my guess is the EPA range will also be pretty close.