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2020.12.5.6: Traffic Light & Stop Sign Control

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If you bothered reading my previous post that multiple people found helpful and informative (hard to miss, as it was long with multiple screenshots) with all the feedback I gave regarding how I thought the feature worked in various conditions, you’d know that I already have it. I thought it would be worth reading ignored posts to see if I missed anything useful, but I was clearly wrong.. back to ignoring you again.

So....I'm not being ignored. Excellent

Its nice to be loved.

That was an ignore check.

I knew you couldn't resist.
 
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I thought this stop sign recognition release was the rewrite.

I also wonder how you can accurately judge distance with one camera on the side of the vehicle for coming traffic at a stop sign. The front has multiple cameras and radar. But not the side.
The car motion with multiple camera frames is the same as multiple cameras. It knows the location of successive frame captures quite accurately which allows 3D reconstruction. It does assume that the stop sign doesn't move.
 
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Monocular distance estimation is a pretty common operation in machine learning: http://openaccess.thecvf.com/conten...ce_From_a_Monocular_Image_ICCV_2019_paper.pdf

And Tesla actually has the ability to train monocular distance estimators without the need for human labeling due to the forward facing radar. So they can train the neural network on known distances of vehicles seen by the forward facing camera and measured by the radar, and then use that neural network to accurately estimate distance and motion on any single camera around the vehicle.
You should be quoting #574 (below) and read #575. I was SIMPLY stating correctly that they don't overlap.
....I also wonder how you can accurately judge distance with one camera on the side of the vehicle for coming traffic at a stop sign. The front has multiple cameras and radar. But not the side.
 
I’m really looking forward to being able to drive from home to work with FSD. Once the rewrite kicks in, and this is deployed, I’ll be playing with this new capability a ton.

I’m also really looking forward to the improvements to Smart Summon, and the new auto park. Also, something I’ll be playing with endlessly. !

Wished they’d hurry up with that rewrite already.... :)
 
I’m really looking forward to being able to drive from home to work with FSD. Once the rewrite kicks in, and this is deployed, I’ll be playing with this new capability a ton.

I’m also really looking forward to the improvements to Smart Summon, and the new auto park. Also, something I’ll be playing with endlessly. !

Wished they’d hurry up with that rewrite already.... :)
Not me. Let them take their time to get the rewrite done properly. Then it's play time!
 
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Personal opinion and IANAL:

Thankfully, through FTC false advertising laws "name we gave something" matters though. If you buy something labelled as "green paint" but what you receive is blue paint and the small print you didn't read turned out to say "this paint is actually blue", I'm pretty sure that the FTC would not consider that acceptable. Small print can provide clarifications and conditional exclusions but the product has to meet what would be considered the reasonable expectations implied by the label (regardless of what the seller says elsewhere).

Full: "not lacking or omitting anything; complete"
Self: could refer to the driver or the car. I think it's understood to apply to the car.
Driving: "the control and operation of a motor vehicle."

Ultimately, of course, it would be up to a court to decide but, personally, I think Tesla would have a hard time justifying "FSD" as meaning something other than the equivalent of L3+ autonomy under most conditions.

While you have a fair point, but I think there is a matter of degree here. Pretty much everyone has an understanding of what "green" and "paint" mean, and putting blue paint in the tin is clearly deceptive. But "full self driving" can certainly mean different things to different people, just as "sky blue paint" can have many interpretations.

I think you could wave "L3" autonomy around in a court as much as you want, but unless you find something from Tesla explicitly saying "L3" in a description of FSD, or can point to common accepted usage of the phrase FSD outside of the specific use by Tesla, then I dont think you would have much of a case. Not saying I agree with this, and I too am not (hooray) a lawyer.
 
As suggested by the observations above, the simple acts of recognizing and responding to stop signs and traffic signals are very complex at times in the real world. One simple example: You are following a large truck on a two lane road approaching an overhead stop light. At some point you will not be able to see the light because it is blocked by the truck. Suppose the light is amber and the truck just barely makes it into the intersection when the light turns red. As a cautious driver, you are traveling slowly enough so that you can rapidly come to a stop to avoid entering the intersection while the light is red. What does the car do?
 
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2 oddities/fails on stopping today.

1) Odd Red Light intersection that you are supposed to leave Box open. In general 2 cars pull up and the 3ed stopes before box. Today no one at intersection. Heading Red Arrow and was showing Red Line at intersections ton and slowing for it. As it got to the first Box line it locked down on the brakes (alarms) and stopped about mid way in the Box. Thank goodness no one behind me.

2) HOV Exit * Was on AP and cut off/exit and immediately hit TACC. Going 80MPH and started rolling the week to lower speed. It showed no sign of seeing the Stop sign until it was getting close. Started braking hard BUT not hard enough and alarms. I hit down on the brake to stop in time.

*In 2007 a college bus drove off embankment thinking it was on interstate killing 7.
Bluffton University bus crash - Wikipedia

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Screen Shot 2020-05-05 at 9.35.25 AM.png
 
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2 oddities/fails on stopping today.

1) Odd Red Light intersection that you are supposed to leave Box open. In general 2 cars pull up and the 3ed stopes before box. Today no one at intersection. Heading Red Arrow and was showing Red Line at intersections ton and slowing for it. As it got to the first Box line it locked down on the brakes (alarms) and stopped about mid way in the Box. Thank goodness no one behind me.

2) HOV Exit * Was on AP and cut off/exit and immediately hit TACC. Going 80MPH and started rolling the week to lower speed. It showed no sign of seeing the Stop sign until it was getting close. Started braking hard BUT not hard enough and alarms. I hit down on the brake to stop in time.

*In 2007 a college bus drove off embankment thinking it was on interstate killing 7.
Bluffton University bus crash - Wikipedia

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Stop before a BOX? now that's just plain weird. Why didn't they just use a normal "line"? or a stop sign....with a line or something? What other states have rules about not stopping in boxes?

Anyway....I HATE driving in Atlanta. My sister lives in Fayetteville and its insane. The lanes are just as wide as a model 3 moving at 80mph with trucks that are wider than the lane.

You should NEVER turn FSD loose in Atlanta.


Does anyone else have a weird rule about not stopping in boxes or something? Do you think Tesla should have programed box rules into the beta yet?
 
I believe that once a large percentage of cars are Self Driving that things like Stop signs and Stop lights should be drastically eliminated or eliminated altogether. Just let all of the cars with FSD talk to one another. ( unfortunately the only game in autonomy worth mentioning is Tesla at this point ).