2020.12.5.6: Traffic Light & Stop Sign Control

[mongo]

Absolutely it does. We have thousands of them here in Chicagoland with a sign that accompanies the line stating "Do NOT BLOCK INTERSECTION".

Thus showing a stop line does stop people from blocking the intersection (the sign does)

We have a lot of these in Chicago....due to....well anyway...

And 2020.12.5.6 stops at these also.

that is impressive because an upside down STOP held by a construction worker is ignored.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yea these "Don't Block the Box" are turning up at LOTS of intersections. Usually in Atlanta they are Option C with the X in the middle. They are also a BIG confusion when on AP. It gets VERY confused trying to drive across them.

View attachment 538887

That's just ridiculous.

 

[dougb00]

Anyone know what it does for yield signs? Curious if it slows down or recognizes yield signs?

I posted something on this later in the thread but didn’t see much response. For me, it has tried to stop (completely) for some yields but not all. It’s not recognizing them as stop signs, because there’s no stop sign icon on the screen, and the message is “stopping for traffic control.” But I haven’t seen any documentation about yield sign behavior. Anyone else?

Just be careful when using TACC or AP with the stop sign feature on when approaching a yield.

 

[willow_hiller]

I posted something on this later in the thread but didn’t see much response. For me, it has tried to stop (completely) for some yields but not all. It’s not recognizing them as stop signs, because there’s no stop sign icon on the screen, and the message is “stopping for traffic control.” But I haven’t seen any documentation about yield sign behavior. Anyone else?

Just be careful when using TACC or AP with the stop sign feature on when approaching a yield.

I have read about the feature coming to complete stops at unsigned T-junctions. It's possible this same sort of behavior occurs at yield signs.

 

[dougb00]

I have read about the feature coming to complete stops at unsigned T-junctions. It's possible this same sort of behavior occurs at yield signs.

Yes, I’ve experienced that too. For that case, there is actually a special T-junction icon that appears. But there isn’t an icon for yields.

 

[theArchitect]

For several yield signs it just seems to ignore them. It slowed down once, but the sign became occluded by a tree limb and I had to take over for merging. I think it's pretty clear they're only officially addressing lights and stop signs as decision points.

 

[aronth5]

For several yield signs it just seems to ignore them. It slowed down once, but the sign became occluded by a tree limb and I had to take over for merging. I think it's pretty clear they're only officially addressing lights and stop signs as decision points.

Yield sign are not included now but T intersections without lights or stop signs are. A grey line will display as you approach the intersection confirming this.

 

[gannettguy]

This feature isn't listed anywhere - so I don't believe there can be an incorrect or correct behavior.

It is what it is.

Its what Tesla does.

 

[gannettguy]

As to the vehicle’s behavior upon approaching a yellow yield sign. It reminded me of driving on US1 moving into a dedicated left turn lane to cross into a street, my car suddenly began braking as if to stop. I used the accelerator to continue. I then noticed it was just I was approaching one of the little yellow oblong reflectors that are on one side of a cut in the median to denote the pass through where one can cross to the other side of the road. I was not going to go through that pass through but one which was just beyond, and was not needing to slow to a stop and needed to continue to the second pass through. It was concerning as if there had been a car following me, it may have rear ended me.

 

[aronth5]

Yea these "Don't Block the Box" are turning up at LOTS of intersections. Usually in Atlanta they are Option C with the X in the middle. They are also a BIG confusion when on AP. It gets VERY confused trying to drive across them.

View attachment 538887

Car ignored white markings blocking the entrance on the right.

 

[Saguarojoe]

The cameras overlap

Sides point rear. My guess would be either two forward cameras are triangulating or radar and cameras are working together. Amazing stuff in any case.

 

[Mardak]

I also wonder how you can accurately judge distance with one camera on the side of the vehicle

Here's an example of the side camera tracking objects and depth from Karpathy's ScaledML talk @22:12

I've highlighted 3 sets of objects:
1) parked vehicle (purple)
2) pedestrians on the sidewalk (orange)
3) pedestrians in the crosswalk (green)

The key piece for tracking these objects with a single camera is that the vehicle is moving forwards, so objects will "move" and "grow" within the field of view in a predictable way. Although to be fair, the group in the crosswalk is also visible from the front wide camera, which helps with the prediction.

 

[C141medic]

An update to an earlier post in this thread:
Was on a short drive and TACC was active as well as traffic light/stop sign control. So, I was approaching a traffic light but took a right turn jug handle (indicated by the red arrow) before I reached the traffic light. Prior to me reaching the traffic light on the straight section of road, I received the normal traffic control messaging on screen. However, when I took the right hand turn (red arrow) the car for wherever reason did not recognize the traffic lights indicated in the red circle. There were no traffic control messages on the screen and no traffic light visuals. As it happened, the light was red and it almost went through the red light if I wouldn’t have stepped on the brake. I’m wondering if the curve of the road confused it, but then again the traffic light should’ve been in the gps database (it’s there in Google maps).

 

[turok3000]

I don't think that would be the case here...

"paint" is a pretty common industry term across a ton of manufacturers. So is "green" to some degree.


"full self driving capability" is not an industry standard term where there's 5 other car makers who all sell something called FSD that does X... and Tesla is deceptively selling under the same name and it does only Y.






This isn't elsewhere though. It's right there in the product description.

It TELLS YOU what full self driving entails in a specific bullet list of features.

That's not the fine print- that's the list of what the product actually is

The fine print is where they make it (even more clear) that it's an L2 system when you use those features.







If I buy something labeled "universal remote" but don't read the box to find out it only controls IR devices, not bluetooth ones, I can't sue them because IT SAID UNIVERSAL on it.







Given nobody has even gotten a lawyer willing to take such a case over 3 years after Tesla began selling FSD,... and even a full year after a serious walk-back of promised capabilities in early 2019... I think your reading of the situation might be incorrect.

Well, the German courts agree that it is false advertising, at least:
German court rules that Tesla misled consumers on Autopilot and Full Self Driving

 

[SO16]

Well, the German courts agree that it is false advertising, at least:
German court rules that Tesla misled consumers on Autopilot and Full Self Driving

Backed by a “concerned” competitor no less.

Twitter

I sure hope Tesla appeals this. Otherwise they better rename autopilot in boats.

 

[C141medic]

Well, the German courts agree that it is false advertising, at least:
German court rules that Tesla misled consumers on Autopilot and Full Self Driving

I don’t know about false advertising but definitely agree that they misled consumers on some aspects of autopilot and FSD. One of my reasons for purchasing FSD back in 2018 was because of what I saw in the video of FSD that Tesla advertised back in 2016. I didn’t know then but now know that video was carefully staged along a predetermined route. So, false advertising? No, but yes to misleading. Have they gotten close to the video in 2020, yes but still no cigar. Will they get there? Of course they will but it may take a little more time. The other reason I purchased FSD was the hopes of getting the HW3 included as part of the purchase.

 

[ChrML]

Well, the German courts agree that it is false advertising, at least:
German court rules that Tesla misled consumers on Autopilot and Full Self Driving

I think the German court is pretty much right, the same would happen in Norway.

It's not the Autopilot term itself that is the problem, it's the context of the ads as a whole. When your ads mention "Autopilot" and "hardware capable of fully autonomous drive", it does set high expectations. You could argue the autopilot term is correct used, and the hardware can do full self-driving, however the software (that we did not mention in the ad) can not. But it is not fully clear for an average end-user what the car actually can do.


Elon Musk however just did a classic strawman response on Twitter by dismissing the entire case, by countering just a small part of the case AS the full case. He addresses only the use of the Autopilot term (but fails to address the actual concerns made by the court, self-driving claims etc...):

Twitter

Then further he attempts to reduce the credibility of the court by shifting the focus to that a German automaker is behind this:

Twitter

 

[jeremymc7]

Saw this earlier today.

Hope it drags down the stock. Unlikely. Totally overvalued.

I’m looking for a reasonable buy in.

The 3 and 6 mth low and high is absurd.

That said FSD does come stupid things. Just today on 5 min drive. Wide lane, move to side to follow curb instead of lane line. Turn all the way to right like making a turn? Then all the way left, then back to straight to follow lane line. Phantom break at concrete square for manhole in tar road, thinking stop line?

Yeah long way to go. At least on roads.

 

[Ludalicious]

Saw this earlier today.

Hope it drags down the stock. Unlikely. Totally overvalued.

I’m looking for a reasonable buy in.

The 3 and 6 mth low and high is absurd.

That said FSD does come stupid things. Just today on 5 min drive. Wide lane, move to side to follow curb instead of lane line. Turn all the way to right like making a turn? Then all the way left, then back to straight to follow lane line. Phantom break at concrete square for manhole in tar road, thinking stop line?

Yeah long way to go. At least on roads.

I believe it will eventually bring the stock down drastically in the future. This is just one of many lawsuits that are to come in the near future I believe... As someone who paid for FSD I really want this to come true... But have been seeing timeline after timeline missed by Elon's post's, are they official releases by Tesla... Well, that,s up for interpretation. But from what Tesla sold us on with a staged video back in 2016 we are far from still half way through 2020. The vehicle still can't even handle simple tasks like hitting stationary vehicles on the highway in emergency situations.

I am 100% positive this lawsuit will lead to many more around the world. Will it lead to Tesla's demise... Probably not.... but it will sure be interesting to see how this unfolds here in America.

 

[willow_hiller]

This is just one of many lawsuits that are to come in the near future I believe

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't FSD always been sold as conditional on both regulators allowing it and on Tesla being technically capable of achieving it?

Unless a litigant could prove that Tesla knew they would never achieve FSD with the current hardware and sold that promise anyway, that lawsuit would be thrown out.