2021.12.25.7

[rxlawdude]

No. In specific cases, in specific locations. To be addressed in future programming.

...

Have you ever seen the 100 car pileups that can occur out of no where when say fog rolls down a hill onto a freeway, sudden monsoon downpour in the desert, etc. I’ve seen them on both coasts. Having long distance radar, infrared camera, LiDAR above vision be it passive or active for autonomous or emergency driving saves lives.

Um, radar is lousy at identifying stationary targets, which is why the few AP-associated crashes typically are where the car, driven by someone who does not remain alert and ready to take over, crashes into a stationary vehicle completely or partially obstructing the lane. While I might just throw up in my mouth a bit for saying this, this may be where LIDAR can help. Coordinating LIDAR and vision, of course, is the challenge - which to believe when they diverge in interpretation.

Agree 100% this is not a 2021 problem. Waymo gets by simply by geofencing out any conditions it can't actually handle. Thus, the demo in a small part of suburban Phoenix, sans nasty weather and especially snow.

 

[Richbot]

LOL

Post 12.25.7, my app now says my car is a Model X 100D.

It's a 2021 Long Range Plus

oh, Tesla, never change

No other issues. Seems like it just works

 

[Richbot]

LIDAR is just vision using a very specific wavelength

 

[Amped412]

LIDAR is just vision using a very specific wavelength

A wavelength that is absent the visible spectrum.

 

[Richbot]

for humans

 

[Amped412]

You're probably joking but wanted to post this for the people that take it seriously lol. If we're not talking about human vision then every electromagnetic wavelength is "vision" as you say. Every wavelength from gamma rays to microwaves are visible by a computer. Neither should be classified as vision as Tesla defines "Tesla Vision."

 

[Richbot]

Are you the tesla definition police because you have to tell me if you are

I mean, fair enough. But if Tesla has defined itself into a corner where it's not allowed to use the spectrum outside human vision, I haven't seen it and that would be a dumb way to operate considering how superior the information from IR in particular can be

 

[Amped412]

Are you the tesla definition police because you have to tell me if you are

I mean, fair enough. But if Tesla has defined itself into a corner where it's not allowed to use the spectrum outside human vision, I haven't seen it and that would be a dumb way to operate considering how superior the information from IR in particular can be

A quick google search and on Tesla's website they say Tesla Vision is their camera based autopilot system. All of their cameras work in the visible spectrum. Elon has said multiple times he wants to make their cars work on the visible spectrum only. I don't have a strong opinion on whether it's dumb or not. Time will tell if they can make a vision only system work for FSD.

Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based...

www.tesla.com

 

[greenmore]

You're probably joking but wanted to post this for the people that take it seriously lol. If we're not talking about human vision then every electromagnetic wavelength is "vision" as you say. Every wavelength from gamma rays to microwaves are visible by a computer. Neither should be classified as vision as Tesla defines "Tesla Vision."

Using IR or X-ray cameras for industrial computer vision is very common. If interpreting IR or X-ray images doesn't count as vision then we'll have to DQ a lot of systems.

In fact you don't even need to detect photons directly to generate images that need to be processed. For example the image can be generated by an electron microscope, an MRI scanner, or an ultrasound machine, where there is no direct projection of photons to an image sensor.

What really matters for CV is that the input is some form of digital image that is a 2D array of scalar or vector values in which elements correspond to some measured physical property spatially and continuously mapped into the array.

 

[Amped412]

Using IR or X-ray cameras for industrial computer vision is very common. If interpreting IR or X-ray images doesn't count as vision then we'll have to DQ a lot of systems.

In fact you don't even need to detect photons directly to generate images that need to be processed. For example the image can be generated by an electron microscope, an MRI scanner, or an ultrasound machine, where there is no direct projection of photons to an image sensor.

What really matters for CV is that the input is some form of digital image that is a 2D array of scalar or vector values in which elements correspond to some measured physical property spatially and continuously mapped into the array.

Did you read my post? lol

Every wavelength from gamma rays to microwaves are visible by a computer. Neither should be classified as vision as Tesla defines "Tesla Vision."

I wasn't arguing against computer vision. Just explaining how Tesla is only using visible light spectrum sensors.

 

[greenmore]

Did you read my post? lol



I wasn't arguing against computer vision. Just explaining how Tesla is only using visible light spectrum sensors.

What you call Tesla Vision actually uses a lot more sensors than just cameras. It also uses GPS, inertial sensors and mechanical odometry (wheel orientation and position), but possibly even more. If they found a better way to use existing radar, it would also use the radar. Actually it might just keep on using the radar in the future in cars that have radar, who knows. Just like human vision that also relies on other sensing, Tesla Vision will also always use a variety of sensors.

 

[Amped412]

What you call Tesla Vision actually uses a lot more sensors than just cameras. It also uses GPS, inertial sensors and mechanical odometry (wheel orientation and position), but possibly even more. If they found a better way to use existing radar, it would also use the radar. Actually it might just keep on using the radar in the future in cars that have radar, who knows. Just like human vision that also relies on other sensing, Tesla Vision will also always use a variety of sensors.

The original discussion was about sensors used for the electromagnetic spectrum but I understand what your saying.

 

[Merrill]

I have been holding off on downloading this update on my 2016 Model X, is there any reason not to download it.

 

[Richbot]

I would hold off if I were you. It seems quite a bit buggier (slower operation of various functions, weird failed touches on the screen, that kind of thing.) on mine than 2021.4.18 or whatever the previous iteration I was on. It still works, but.

Maybe it's still compiling, lol

 

[Jacopa]

No problems with my 2020 Nov build MYLR….

 

[fetzu]

I updated a few days ago but just noticed that Superchargers are gone from the , if I select the charger icon (bottom left) they do display but with a list on the right side.. and everything disappears as soon as I hit cancel or navigate to a (super)charger.

The icons on the map used to be visible (and IIRC togglable with that charger icon on the bottom left). Tried rebooting but still the same.

Am I missing something?

Note: I also got the navigation data updated to EU-2021.8-12875 two days ago. Not that it should be related to what’s on display on the MCU.

 

[M109Rider]

I'm still back on pre-xmas firmware. for weeks, back then, it nagged me each time I entered the car (and I have it set to the non-advanced update stream so not sure why the nag).

then the nags went away for months. for months, it was a pleasure getting in the car with no nags.

now, they're back (since last week). I still am a refusenik and I'm mostly happy with the ancient fw that still controls THIS car.

car wash mode would be nice, but I'm not willing to push this into my working partition. maybe not ever, as long as I can refuse it. my car is radar based, btw, so that's even more a reason to keep on with the old fw.

with reports that things break and performance of AP is worse, I'm still going to refuse. will be a bad day if/when I finally cant refuse anymore. its the thing about the tesla fw model that I hate hte most. even with android (being a pita) you -can- make an image backup and revert if things go sideways. no such luck with cars. not even ONE level of undo!

absurd that after all these years, not one level of undo after experimental updates.

shameful, tesla. we dont need GAMES. how about an undo, elon? huh? that too hard for you? maybe you should disable more sensors....

(yeah, this bugs the hell out of me, being a sw guy)

The same old “We don’t need games” thing. Who is we.
You mean you don’t need games.
I’ve never met a software guy so afraid of software updates and change. Curious.

 

[linux-works]

The same old “We don’t need games” thing. Who is we.
You mean you don’t need games.
I’ve never met a software guy so afraid of software updates and change. Curious.

perhaps I know what good versions look like and dont need to take more one-way (no undo, remember) risks.

gimme an undo and then we'll talk.

 

[MY-Y]

LIDAR is just vision using a very specific wavelength

Lidar is actively sending coherent energy like radar. It isn't just vision. There are major benefits in calculating range and radial velocity with Lidar (and radar). It is also less prone to being blinded by broadband interference sources (e.g. headlights, sun).

 

[pchilds]

Owners manual works now. On my car, trying to bring up pages with 25.6 would hang the GUI.

With 2021.12.25.7 my main screen crashes and then the windows don't work. I usually have to reboot twice to get the windows to open/close. I wonder what else is crashing at the same time. This the buggiest release I've gotten since 2016.