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2021.36.5.3 (Beta 10.3.1) Observations from the North East

2018 Model 3, Dual Motor, Long Range, FSD, HW3, 99K miles

TL/DR – turns at intersections needs work, Y intersections are a challenge, radar turned off, no more phantom braking at known locations.

Received the update yesterday evening. Took a quick spin of a couple miles, tail end of rush hour slight rain, back roads and main road, no highways.

The good

The spots where I normally get phantom braking and/or FCW on my morning commute it did not brake.

The location where there is a stop sign on left side of road for the side street that comes in at a very acute angle it did not pick it up and attempt to break.

A rather tricky intersection where there is a sign that says stop here, about 75 yards from the intersection and before the railroad tracks. The car continued down the hill towards the green light and disregarded the blinking yellow lights proceeding the traffic light and the stop here sign and line. It’s a really bad intersections with lots of accidents because of the intersection layout. It’s more of an X than a cross with a railroad track also intersecting the bottom legs of the X and the tracks are at a diagonal. The stop here sign is to allow tractor trailers the ability to make the turn from the left leg of the bottom of the X onto the right leg and to also keep you off the tracks prior to the traffic light. People struggle with this intersection everyday. Usually they run the red light or make a right turn to clear the road for the turning trucks even though they wanted to go straight. Only applies to those coming up the bottom right leg of the X. Anyhow I turned it off prior to hitting the railroad track, plus the intersection is rather bumpy from all the trucks. Prior to the beta the car would attempt to brake for the stop here sign, fail because coming down a hill, attempt again prior to railroad track then proceed to intersection and stop at the red light. I’ll have to wait to see what it does under a yellow, and red. Maybe I’ll make another run today.

At main intersection there is a left turn lane, it nailed it, very nice, but there was only one car already in the lane. Not sure how it would of handled it if there were two or three which would have taken up the distance of the lane.

High beams turn on and off as traffic approached, didn’t notice anything bad about it, but it was a short ride on back roads. Haven’t tried it on a highway yet to see if the disco lights of them constantly turning on and off has been fixed. Would be nice if it is fixed and usable.

The bad

Turns at intersection need work. It completes them, but more like someone who has never driven a car before. Wheel jerks around a bit, goes real slow, speeds up, slows down, turns some more, etc. Don’t attempt this with a cars around and behind you, they will not appreciate it. Yes you have to try it out and then you’ll see it’s not a good idea with cars around.

There is a Y intersection, the Y is actually upside down with the main road 45mph going from the top to the bottom left leg. As you go to pull out from the bottom right leg, the cameras can not see down the left, its cornfields on all sides and the road is tree lined on the main road side. Car started to pull out directly into an oncoming car from the left, which it obviously could not see. I wish the cameras in the windshield and pillars could pivot. Not sure how they will ever solve this type scenario. As a driver we have to lean forward and turn our heads to see down the road in these situations.

Apparently the radar has been turned off and it is vision only. Again only difference I notice was no more phantom braking at the two rises it didn’t like and also the intersection it would not like one day and not be bothered the next and only on the northbound side. Hopefully it stays fixed.

Looking forward to using it some more and getting trained on it just like we did with AP/NOA learning it’s foibles. Good luck to the rest of you testers and please be safe out there, it’s a new learning curve!

For those still waiting, as others have stated there’s nothing exceptionally different here. I don’t think you’ll be letting it take you around town without intervening, you’ll be using it just like AP. Maybe as I use it more the turns at intersections will improve, but right now, I’ll be manually taking those. I did pass a few deer on side of road but failed to look at screen to see if it picked them up. That would really be a nice piece of mind if it does see them and there is code in the system to deal with them if they venture into the road. The deer are moving this time of year, they are out every evening, not fun running the gauntlet. As for the UI, not something I really pay attention to, there are red and yellow lines but not sure what it shows while I’m driving, too busy supervising the car and waiting for the unexpected moment! Maybe after I have it for a while and get comfortable with it will I bother to gander at it.

Be safe!
 
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hellocar

Member
Jan 26, 2020
227
167
New Jersey
Yeah I hope they are able to smooth out the turns soon. The excessively wide turns are also problematic when they alarm other drivers, i.e. the car suddenly swings to the left before diving into a right turn, and the oncoming driver sees it as a potential lane departure. I was wondering if the turning has always been this bad, or if it got worse due to some quick fixes for wider release to reduce the chance of curbed wheels.
 

ritchieboyroy

Member
Jul 20, 2019
15
13
NJ
Got 2021.36.5.3 last night. M3P 2018.

Took first FSD ride ever this morning. Huge Tesla fan, early investor, 100% in on mission. ( u know where this going).

Could not have been a worse first impression. Can't think of anything positive to say. Performance overall was significantly worse than what I see watching others on YouTube. I can't go 1/4 mile without disengagement.

Jerky movements, crossing lanes, seems oblivious to curbs until last second. Even the turn signals were hap hazard. Sometimes signalling too late, sometimes phantom signalling wrong direction then switching back to other side.

I don't know if semi rainy weather playing a factor. I am probably the first person with FSD driving these roads around my home in North NJ. Maybe AI will improve. But my gosh this is so far from good it's utterly unusable.

Even when it took me onto a major highway ive used standard Autopilot on dozens of time - performance was worse.

Only 1 outing so far, I'll try again later today. But boy what a change in attitude, woke up excited to try and show friends, now I'm embarrassed and don't think I'll show anyone till things change. Maybe something wrong with my car, or this version? if this is as good as this beta is then I would prefer they bottle it back up and stop this rollout.
 

hellocar

Member
Jan 26, 2020
227
167
New Jersey
I remember Elon saying that it will take some time to train it for areas of the country where they weren’t previously focusing. I’m sure NJ is one of those, so I’m hopeful we’ll see improvements over the next updates. There are a lot of little ways that roads and intersections differ visually from SF Bay Area.
 
So, I received FSD Beta a couple of weeks ago and have been testing in Massachusetts. Here are my key observations:

1. It makes impressively good left and right turns when it has actually committed to executing the maneuver.

2. Poorly marked New England roads (especially in neighborhoods that are in the woods) with sharp turns and narrow lanes are a particular challenge and I frequently end up disengaging.

3. Making turns from neighborhoods onto roads with high speed limits are challenging due to the view being occluded by trees. FSD Beta takes too much time to creep and assess the traffic situation and then if/when it finally commits to the maneuver, it's very slow to execute.

I think that in time (once they weed out bad FSD Beta testers), Tesla will increase the confidence of the turns and solve some of the key issues. But, I'm still concerned about occlusions due to trees, shrubs, etc. that are frequently the case in the Northeast. I don't know how they're going to solve the B-pillar camera placement because I frequently have to crane my head forward to be able to execute the maneuvers myself. The B-pillar cameras are static and can't do that.
 
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Just received FSD for the first time yesterday (2021.36.5.3). I'm in suburbs near Richmond, VA. Terrible first impressions. Constantly brake checks for no apparent reason, moves into and drives in turning lanes clearly painted with right turn indicators, gets in incorrect lanes, jerky wheel movements in turns. Just driving straight is worse than the base autopilot. Can't go half a mile without disengaging it.
 

ritchieboyroy

Member
Jul 20, 2019
15
13
NJ
Just received FSD for the first time yesterday (2021.36.5.3). I'm in suburbs near Richmond, VA. Terrible first impressions. Constantly brake checks for no apparent reason, moves into and drives in turning lanes clearly painted with right turn indicators, gets in incorrect lanes, jerky wheel movements in turns. Just driving straight is worse than the base autopilot. Can't go half a mile without disengaging it.
Unfortunately same first experience for me you can read a few posts above. Going to try 2nd trip now.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,617
33,669
Seattle, WA
Could not have been a worse first impression. Can't think of anything positive to say. Performance overall was significantly worse than what I see watching others on YouTube.
Yes - this is what I've been saying for a while. It "feels" significantly worse than youtube videos. After watching my own recorded videos - I can conclusively say - the videos do not capture how you actually feel when driving (except in VR).

One more point. It gets better - no, not the fsd beta per se - but you start understanding how it works and what to expect. I remember I was very nervous when I started using AP as well - I'd constantly worry about "what if the car suddenly swerves and hits the oncoming vehicle / car in the next lane. I'm back to feeling the same way now ...
 

ritchieboyroy

Member
Jul 20, 2019
15
13
NJ
Got 2021.36.5.3 last night. M3P 2018.

Took first FSD ride ever this morning. Huge Tesla fan, early investor, 100% in on mission. ( u know where this going).

Could not have been a worse first impression. Can't think of anything positive to say. Performance overall was significantly worse than what I see watching others on YouTube. I can't go 1/4 mile without disengagement.

Jerky movements, crossing lanes, seems oblivious to curbs until last second. Even the turn signals were hap hazard. Sometimes signalling too late, sometimes phantom signalling wrong direction then switching back to other side.

I don't know if semi rainy weather playing a factor. I am probably the first person with FSD driving these roads around my home in North NJ. Maybe AI will improve. But my gosh this is so far from good it's utterly unusable.

Even when it took me onto a major highway ive used standard Autopilot on dozens of time - performance was worse.

Only 1 outing so far, I'll try again later today. But boy what a change in attitude, woke up excited to try and show friends, now I'm embarrassed and don't think I'll show anyone till things change. Maybe something wrong with my car, or this version? if this is as good as this beta is then I would prefer they bottle it back up and stop this rollout.
Ok, test drive 2 under the belt. Whole different perspective. Very successful, very impressive. I'm am embarrassed to say I most of this mornings problems were due to user error. And I pride myself in being Tesla smart. Well, I guess not!

Here was the problem in case anyone else does what I did. At some point before getting the beta I decided to turn off the option for "automatically start with navigate on autopilot". I did this because I use Nav a lot and don't always want the car changing Lanes, etc. Well, stupid me when I took my first drive and put the car into FSD I didn't have it also on "navigate on AP". So now I'm expecting it to slow down and put on turn signal and it's blowing by streets and I'm disengaging like a madman. Then I re-engage and this time hit NAP, then disengage and forget again. Anyway, I think that was 95% of the trouble is that I assumed FSD would take over without that extra option of NAP engaged, but apparently it doesn't.

Sorry all
 

ritchieboyroy

Member
Jul 20, 2019
15
13
NJ
Yes - this is what I've been saying for a while. It "feels" significantly worse than youtube videos. After watching my own recorded videos - I can conclusively say - the videos do not capture how you actually feel when driving (except in VR).

One more point. It gets better - no, not the fsd beta per se - but you start understanding how it works and what to expect. I remember I was very nervous when I started using AP as well - I'd constantly worry about "what if the car suddenly swerves and hits the oncoming vehicle / car in the next lane. I'm back to feeling the same way now ...
My 2nd drive was much different, car did great. Think my setting were wrong.
 
Ok, test drive 2 under the belt. Whole different perspective. Very successful, very impressive. I'm am embarrassed to say I most of this mornings problems were due to user error. And I pride myself in being Tesla smart. Well, I guess not!

Here was the problem in case anyone else does what I did. At some point before getting the beta I decided to turn off the option for "automatically start with navigate on autopilot". I did this because I use Nav a lot and don't always want the car changing Lanes, etc. Well, stupid me when I took my first drive and put the car into FSD I didn't have it also on "navigate on AP". So now I'm expecting it to slow down and put on turn signal and it's blowing by streets and I'm disengaging like a madman. Then I re-engage and this time hit NAP, then disengage and forget again. Anyway, I think that was 95% of the trouble is that I assumed FSD would take over without that extra option of NAP engaged, but apparently it doesn't.

Sorry all
Unfortunately, that is not my issue. I have it set start with "Navigate on Autopilot".
 

mtx450

Member
Mar 12, 2021
155
180
Long Island, NY
FSD Beta tester here from Long Island, and basically the same as all of you guys. The phantom braking/brake checking is driving me (and the other drivers behind me) completely nuts! I can deal with all of the other inconsistencies but the brake checking is really hard to manage. Especially when it's for no apparent reason. I wish there was some sort of alert or notification that identified what was causing it!
 

EVO X

Member
Feb 28, 2021
89
60
NJ
I think you have to realize we’re in BETA, beta means anything can happen anytime of the drive.
Mine is like the YouTube videos.
It took me from my house to inside the Lowe’s parking lot 7 miles away taking streets and a highway. I helped a few times the most.
It does minor mistakes here and there as long as you know when and what to expect it’s fine!
I’m now at least 95% of the time in FSD :)

Think about Cadillac how they only can use 100000 miles of roads the United States in whole.
NY state alone has over 240,489 miles of roads and Tesla’s can read all of them!
Tesla’s can read dirt roads!!!
 
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BobDole

Member
Feb 13, 2021
71
85
Nashville, TN
In Nashville TN area here. Had FSD Beta for a bit over 2 weeks. Had my first no intervention drive yesterday, so it CAN do well. But my experience is something like 1 to 3 interventions per mi in the city, 1 intervention per 2-3mi on highways (mostly phantom braking - i goose the gas b/c it annoys me so much). Interstate metrics irrelevant as that is NoAP
 

mtx450

Member
Mar 12, 2021
155
180
Long Island, NY
Just got back from a trip to upstate NY (Watertown, near Canada). I'm actually surprised how bad it performs on rural city streets. I thought this would be a much easier environment for it and it would breeze through most of it. But in reality, I had more disengagements per drive then I've had since getting Beta.
 
Couple more local drives. On a road that AP would handle fine, except for one slow down spot Beta handles completely different. Cruises along, then starts to slow for a second, then immediately resumes, kept doing it several times along the route, almost turned it off. Not sure if the shadows on the road or approaching side streets was causing it. Checked the screen to see if it showed anything, nothing, speed limits didn't change nothing projected on the screen. Annoying, Go, Slow, Go, Slow, Go, Slow.... On another road when a car pulled out crossing it didn't slam the brakes but continued normally, hurray. Usually when this situation arose I would immediately turn off AP knowing it is going to brake hard even though it had plenty of runway and didn't need to slow.

On another road where the road splits after a curve but the lane I need to follow is on the left. AP would always go right, now Beta does it correctly and goes to the left lane and gets in the appropriate lane for the left at the up coming light which is up around the bend. Nice. At another intersection around a bend AP would always come in to hot and slam the brakes for the light and heaven forbid there was any traffic infront. It slowed going into the curve and approached the intersection and light very nicely. However coming back that way it could of been a fatality. On the return side the road splits to a Y and its a left hand curved road. So the right branch of the Y has no light. The problem spot is following the road to the intersection on a left hand curve. For whatever reason it did not see the traffic lights or acknowledge the main intersection and was approaching at combat speed. Slammed the brakes to keep from entering intersection and colliding with crossing traffic. That gets the blood flowing. On that same road there's and intersection right at the cusp of a sharp bend, side road comes in from right and usually has traffic backed up waiting to turn left. AP was terrible with it, wasn't sure which way to go and would steer towards the stopped traffic on the side street. When no traffic was there it would have a hard time making the curve. Now with Beta it makes the curve but very unsettling, hesitates and needs the accelerator pressed, cars behind doing 40 so you need to keep moving, but it gets through it correctly with some help.

Oh yeah, after it stops at a stop sign, if theres no traffic it proceeds on its own. Guess I was to used to AP and would press the accelerator. pretty neat, have to see what happens when there's traffic at the 4 way stops. I hope it can figure out its turn. Still not letting car do lefts and rights if there is traffic around, if none I'll let it do it's thing and use the accelerator to get through them, not smooth at all.

I haven't pushed the record button, not sure it would even be looked at, figure 5K cars in Beta, if each one pushes the button twice that's 10K video clips to look at, who is going to have the opportunity to review them.... I assume if I disengaged with enough force, the atomic braking at the approaching intersection, hard wheel turn or whatever, it would get reported.

Hopefully next update will fix the go, slow, go and detect the intersection and light around the bend. Funny how it does it correct in one direction, but not the other at the same intersection. Still enjoying testing out the software and looking forward to being able to see how it progresses as I rerun the routes and compare to previous release. Stay safe out there and be vigilant for the unexpected.
 

Runduck

Member
Dec 9, 2020
60
32
Peabody, MA
I live in Massachusetts in the northern Boston suburbs (aka the North Showah). I got fsd beta yesterday and started trying it out today. I get there is no neural nets in this area but this thing is straight banana land. All it seems to do well is drive straight (well so far). In the cars defense the networks of roads around here look like they were drawn by a 2 year old with a crayon. Makes me wonder who the hell drives like this in real life. I had to disengage several times because I was repeatedly receiving the "your numbah one ked" hand gesture. Here's to hoping it gets a lot better quickly (once the neural net gets some more information).

anyways - excited to help make this thing better and will keep plugging along.
 
I live in Massachusetts in the northern Boston suburbs (aka the North Showah). I got fsd beta yesterday and started trying it out today. I get there is no neural nets in this area but this thing is straight banana land. All it seems to do well is drive straight (well so far). In the cars defense the networks of roads around here look like they were drawn by a 2 year old with a crayon. Makes me wonder who the hell drives like this in real life. I had to disengage several times because I was repeatedly receiving the "your numbah one ked" hand gesture. Here's to hoping it gets a lot better quickly (once the neural net gets some more information).

anyways - excited to help make this thing better and will keep plugging along.
Yup, our road markings and design in general are just downright sh!t. I'm not surprised that the Beta is struggling out in central MA or on the north shore. I'm hoping that enough folks in the northeast have been submitting clips/disengaging that Tesla will start to update the NNs within the next couple of builds (maybe even 10.4).
 
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EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
12,617
33,669
Seattle, WA
I haven't pushed the record button, not sure it would even be looked at, figure 5K cars in Beta, if each one pushes the button twice that's 10K video clips to look at, who is going to have the opportunity to review them.... I assume if I disengaged with enough force, the atomic braking at the approaching intersection, hard wheel turn or whatever, it would get reported.
Tesla has thousands hundreds of labelers. Push that record button.

Ofcourse, they need to make that record button bigger. I need to try it 3 times now before I succeed in actually hitting the button.

ps : They could apparently label 10k clips in a week.


As an example of the efficiency that Tesla has achieved, Elluswamy shared that the effort to remove radar dependency required 10,000 labeled video clips. Outsourced labelers would have taken several months to complete that task. Tesla’s in-house, software-centric labeling team completed the task in a week.
 
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