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2021 M3LR Range only 330

TiLaSoul

Member
Oct 30, 2020
68
77
Uk
That’s not the question or concern that’s being posed. It’s the statement that the EPA rating (regardless of driving patterns or external factors) should be displayed when fully charged, it isn’t at the moment. Mine is epa rated at 353, it’s showing 331-336. No one is expecting to get that range I would imagine, but a fully charged battery should be showing it according to a Tesla.

I really don't understand why this is useful?

Surely you would want to show the real range. The other way around doesn't achieve anything.
 

Jibjab

Member
Aug 8, 2020
170
87
Doncaster
I really don't understand why this is useful?

Surely you would want to show the real range. The other way around doesn't achieve anything.

It isn’t, and I’d much prefer the estimated range to be displayed right from the off :) The car isn’t operating as stated at the moment though, so there may be a fault. Just like my left camera not working as stated , as well as the charge port not opening manually. It’s logged as a service request to be a investigated as a potential defect and a response to be provided.

I’ve not had the updated software made available to me as yet, it it isn’t here by the 24th I assume the Ranger will force an update.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: CMc1

SpareHeadOne

Member
Oct 27, 2020
228
134
UK
That’s not the question or concern that’s being posed. It’s the statement that the EPA rating (regardless of driving patterns or external factors) should be displayed when fully charged, it isn’t at the moment. Mine is epa rated at 353, it’s showing 331-336. No one is expecting to get that range I would imagine, but a fully charged battery should be showing it according to a Tesla.

My old car would show a range based on the average figure from the trip computer and if you reset the trip it would show "--" until you'd driven a few miles and it had a new average to work from (which would often drop rapidly to a sensible number over the next 20-30 miles).

I'm not quite sure why Tesla don't use a comparable system.
 

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,697
UK
My old car would show a range based on the average figure from the trip computer and if you reset the trip it would show "--" until you'd driven a few miles and it had a new average to work from (which would often drop rapidly to a sensible number over the next 20-30 miles).

I'm not quite sure why Tesla don't use a comparable system.

They do. Take a look at the energy display and you'll find that it does exactly this, recalculates remaining range based on variations during the drive. It does exactly the same if % is selected in the driving display. The only oddball thing is that if the driving display is selected to be range, it displays the EPA-based remaining range based solely on what the car believes is the current SoC. For reasons explained to death in this, and other, threads, the SoC is impossible to directly measure, it can only be estimated for 99% of the time, due to it's dependence on factors like temperature.
 

SpareHeadOne

Member
Oct 27, 2020
228
134
UK
They do. Take a look at the energy display and you'll find that it does exactly this, recalculates remaining range based on variations during the drive. It does exactly the same if % is selected in the driving display. The only oddball thing is that if the driving display is selected to be range, it displays the EPA-based remaining range based solely on what the car believes is the current SoC. For reasons explained to death in this, and other, threads, the SoC is impossible to directly measure, it can only be estimated for 99% of the time, due to it's dependence on factors like temperature.

Yes, I'm aware of the energy display, but I thought that it reset every time you leave the car which limits the use a little bit, or is there something I've missed?
 

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,697
UK
The energy display uses real time data, plus stored data (the BMS SoC estimate). It recalculates all the time, so will give the best estimate of remaining range/capacity it can, based on data that's available. Not sure why doing this should be considered a limitation, TBH.
 

FEERSUMENDJIN

Member
Jul 27, 2019
130
119
Scotland
Agreed, so a long range should be 353 epa. Plugged mine in 5.5 hours ago to charge to 90%, currently showing a full charge with a rated range of 336, not sure where 17 (23 for the OP) has disappeared from on a brand new battery/car? Maybe it will increase after a couple of charge cycles?
It will look better in summer. Relax.
 
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Reactions: M3BlueGeorgia

Jibjab

Member
Aug 8, 2020
170
87
Doncaster
It will look better in summer. Relax.

It isn’t affected by external factors. It seems that I, amongst others, have an LG battery that is potentially a lower capacity than the existing Panasonic version. It may, and it’s only a may, improve later. The most recent update has started to edge it toward the epa rating, but it’s not there yet.
 

FEERSUMENDJIN

Member
Jul 27, 2019
130
119
Scotland
It isn’t affected by external factors. It seems that I, amongst others, have an LG battery that is potentially a lower capacity than the existing Panasonic version. It may, and it’s only a may, improve later. The most recent update has started to edge it toward the epa rating, but it’s not there yet.
It is affected by external factors as it will look different in different days. Mine does vary with temp. It is generally set to the theoretical epa which is sort of achievable at 60 mph or less.
 
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Reactions: M3BlueGeorgia

Chrisgillett

Member
Aug 22, 2020
66
43
Bristol, UK
I don’t know all the fuss is about. It has incredible range :D
 

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Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,697
UK
I'd love to find a definitive source for this statement. Everything in the public domain suggests that Tesla have only qualified three cell types for the Model 3, NCA chemistry cells used in all Fremont made cars, manufactured at the Tesla Nevada plant, CATL LFP cells and LG NCAM cells used in the Chinese made cars.

Some countries in Europe (Sweden, Denmark, Norway) have received Chinese-made cars, so those cars will have either CATL or LG Chem cells. There have been no Chinese-made cars imported to the UK, AFAIK, as the Chinese factory isn't set up to produce right hand drive cars.
 

Jibjab

Member
Aug 8, 2020
170
87
Doncaster
It is affected by external factors as it will look different in different days. Mine does vary with temp. It is generally set to the theoretical epa which is sort of achievable at 60 mph or less.

From the manual. It states the driving range display is not affected by external conditions. Of course the estimated range will be affected by a number of variables though.
C9DC535B-D6EF-42AC-B003-9E6A41F40253.jpeg
 
  • Informative
Reactions: M3BlueGeorgia

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,697
UK
My LR is currently charged at 304 (89%), so a full charge would be 342. This is 10 more than it was last week, but still not 360.

The EPA mythical maximum range for the Model 3 LR AWD is not 360 miles, it's 353 miles, and the car uses the EPA test data as the basis for that nonsensical display. 360 miles is the WLTP mythical number. Neither are achievable in the winter in the UK, and most probably neither are achievable in summer, either, unless the car is driven like a shopping trolley. The same goes for petrol and diesel cars, none of them ever manage their official range when used in the real world, most come at least 10% short in summer, perhaps 30% short in winter.
 

Jibjab

Member
Aug 8, 2020
170
87
Doncaster
My LR is currently charged at 304 (89%), so a full charge would be 342. This is 10 more than it was last week, but still not 360.

The EPA is 353 for a long range. The US cars were delivered showing 348 miles and with the most recent update 353 miles. Mine was the same range displayed as yours, as I believe anyone else who has commented is so far. This is most likely due to the different batteries (LG) that have been fitted to some European models supplied from Fremont. Screen shot below, this is for a car based in San Diego so 18c in the day and circa 8-9c at night.

9A902085-1CAA-41A1-B634-FE64EDB9DC74.png
 

FEERSUMENDJIN

Member
Jul 27, 2019
130
119
Scotland
From the manual. It states the driving range display is not affected by external conditions. Of course the estimated range will be affected by a number of variables though.
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you can read the manual. Or you can watch your own car's behaviour over a period of 18 months. Take your pick. The stated range is EPA based on the actual charge on the battery and a given efficiency of driving. The actual achievable state of charge of the battery does vary day to day and is influenced by external factors.
 

FEERSUMENDJIN

Member
Jul 27, 2019
130
119
Scotland
There are also reports that the state of charge of a LFP is harder to map than a NCM, and Tesla have less experience of this to date. So it may get better.
 

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,697
UK
There are also reports that the state of charge of a LFP is harder to map than a NCM, and Tesla have less experience of this to date. So it may get better.

This tends to be the case. I have one old LFP pack that still gets some use, and guessing SoC from terminal voltage is near-impossible, especially over the range from around 30% to 80%, when there is almost no terminal voltage change that can be mapped directly to SoC - other factors, mainly temperature, tend to have a massively greater impact.

The SoC estimation system I've found tends to work most reliably is to just measure energy in to the pack during charge to 100%, measure energy out of the pack during discharge and try to apply compensation for the varying pack internal resistance minute by minute. This can be sort of done by measuring voltage droop under load - a cold pack has a higher internal resistance, so the terminal voltage tends to droop a bit more at any given load current. It's still a pretty imprecise art, though, as lots of short duration, high discharge current events can throw things out a fair bit, as can longish periods of relatively low discharge current.

I've no doubt that Tesla have put a lot more effort into trying to estimate SoC, but I doubt that they can do it to better than about 10%. Coupled with a pattern of use where the pack rarely gets charged to 100% (which would be typical for most cars), and the inevitable drift away from an accurate residual SoC that automatically leads to, and it seems probable that the SoC estimate may not even be as good as 10% some of the time.
 

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