Well if it’s the first, it’s not acceptable. I don’t believe that this is something that slipped through the cracks of a mega company. This kind of thing doesn’t happen by accident. If the answer is it’s a byproduct of their new batteries there are going to be a lot of unhappy customers both existing and prospective and it should have been disclosed. Some folks on Reddit are holding on orders pending an answer from Tesla and I don’t blame them one bit. This is a pretty significant development for M3P owners. Also as I understand things it’s only a matter of time until it affects the entire Model 3 range. Hopefully, it’s a software fix or at least can be mitigated by software.
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2021 M3P preforms worse than LR and a 2019 M3P
- Thread starter clerks
- Start date
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes. That's true. One possible reason is described above in my original post:
Yes, and I said they would likely still be different, and that there was no defending it. And I also listed all the other reasons I could think of for why this might be the case. There may be others.
As far as Track Mode is concerned, if you're doing 0-60 runs, you're definitely going to be in Track Mode, but it's obvious from above that without Track Mode for the Performance 2021 vs. LR 2021, the Performance is worse at low SoC (for this particular test, where the battery temperatures are different, except at 10% SoC where they are the same, where the LR is way better). So apples to apples the Performance does worse in that particular case. And technically it wouldn't be "fair" to turn on Track Mode when doing that comparison. But it doesn't mean one can't try.
And no, I don't know whether Track Mode would resolve this problem (I tend to think it would help but it may not be optimized to optimize performance in the cold - normally hot weather is more the concern that Track Mode tries to address). Just saying it's something to try, if you want to try to avoid the heat sucking. Worth a shot to see what happens!
Also definitely turn off climate control!
Hopefully Tesla will fix it, and as I mentioned, this is likely due to the difference in cell composition and the heat pump. Fundamentally I'm sure the performance of the 2021 is similar or superior, or will be, once cell restrictions are lifted (which it is pretty reasonable to expect, though there are no guarantees in life, and the chemistry may well be fundamentally different enough in the cold that it's not quite as good - we don't know - but I wouldn't judge it based on existing test results). Maybe the 2021 will always be worse in the cold than the 2019, but there's no way to know right now how much worse. At least it will be more efficient.
You can try to eliminate the temperature from the equation by turning off the heat pump and turning on stator heating, as mentioned above - but as we can see on the 2021 LR to 2021 Performance comparison at 10% SoC, at very low SoC it's not looking promising.
TL;DR - there's a reasonable chance that there will be programming changes coming to the Model 3 Performance 2021 to make it do better in the cold, but no one knows, and you should also review @MasterC17's comparison, as he owns/has owned both cars and has telemetry data.
EDIT: Another thing that should have been included in these videos is the minimum voltage that's allowed during each run on each vehicle. Some have speculated that's one of the reasons the power dropoff is so catastrophic. I don't have the patience to dig up all the videos with the other vehicles or watch them all, but I saw something like 265V-270V on the LR (I think - can't remember which vehicle) when I was watching this morning.
The voltage sags due to the current draw and there's a limit to how much is allowed. If this sag limit is a lot higher on the Performance (for whatever reason Tesla's engineers have decided) it's going to result in pretty catastrophic power pulling because the current allowed will be substantially lower.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I don't believe they disclosed the LFP battery in Europe (which is a much bigger change in chemistry), so I doubt they would disclose this even if this was from a chemistry change. Basically anything they didn't explicitly mention on the site, they don't disclose, which applies to a bunch of different changes (like the existence of the heat pump in the Model 3, the heated steering wheel that is all the rage, the changed headlights/tailights, and going back to also why they completely removed any mention of battery capacity as well as kW/hp a long time ago).
Hey Clerks any development ?
I red also your thread at tesla com and couldn't believe all the negative reaction.
Definitely it's a very serious issue (hidden until now) - I'd never buy a car that under performs so badly at everything lower than 70 % SoC !
No and I’m surprised there is less out there on this. Those guys are brutal over there. What a bunch of jerks. I’m hoping more people focus on this so we can at least get to the bottom of it. I’m not hopeful that this will ever be addressed. IMHO anyone looking at at 2021 M3P should hold off but if you read the 2021 M3P delivery thread, most don’t seem to be too bothered by it. I can say my car slows significantly at 65 SOC. Haven’t driven it in warm temps yet. Potential buyers should be forewarned.
Sukhshanti
Member
Well I certainly was considering switching to P at some point (here in France the prices dropped considerably recently ) but not anymore. At least not until we see how this ends out. And BTW (although not very likely) there is always the risk that Tesla decides in the future to slower the before 2021 cars just to " preserve " better the batteries.
We all want a relatively consistent performance throughout the different SoC levels.
Don’t blame you one bit. If Tesla does that (or has already done it) it needs to be disclosed to buyers. 10k extra for the P seems like bad value of horsepower drops off significantly after 70 SOC. This is what I feel in my car and anecdotal reports are that the 2019 pulls stronger and at a at a lower SOC versus the 2021.
Has there been any confirmation of the poor 2021 3P performance at suub-70 SOC? I've seen the Bjorn video where he's driving around in the cold, but nothing else. It seems like if this were a real, repeatable phenomenon other people would have caught on and posted results -- especially given the minor stir Bjorn has caused. I haven't seen anything like that. Have I missed it?
I avoid the Tesla.com forum. It's useless. Too many folks over there seemingly either own a significant amount of Tesla stock or have an unhealthy relationship with the brand. Anything that isn't 100% positive is immediately, reflexively attacked.
I avoid the Tesla.com forum. It's useless. Too many folks over there seemingly either own a significant amount of Tesla stock or have an unhealthy relationship with the brand. Anything that isn't 100% positive is immediately, reflexively attacked.
My butt dyno tells me it’s real. The car falls off fast. It’s a rocket until 80SOC but that’s it. I do not have a 2019 to compare it to. My temps have been between 20 and 40F. There is confirmation that the 2021 runs a lower target engine temp and has more voltage sag. But we definitely need more information to know for sure. Someone ran some zero to 60s in a 2021 and the times were decent going down to a lower SOC at 57f so that was good news.
The theory is that Tesla is being careful with the new low cobalt batteries. Over time they could let them rip a bit more unless there are reasons not to (stability, range, longevity etc.). My commute is 30 miles round trip so most days I’ll be in the sweet spot of power but this is still a bummer for 2021 if it’s not isolated to super cold temps. We need more tests at higher temps.
All M3P for 2021 use the new Panasonic low cobalt batteries. Doesn’t matter what region.
For the 2021 performance model, everyone gets the new Panasonic battery. That’s my understanding. There is a thread here that is long but I asked this question and that is the answer the knowledgeable folks here gave me.
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