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2021 model vs. old one, thoughts after couple hundred miles

Realaustin

Member
Dec 10, 2019
45
25
Scotland
Quick upgrade to new vehicle! Range in SR+ not enough for you? How did it work out financially in terms of what you lost in depreciation, taxes and fees after selling (trading in?) and purchasing the new vehicle.
I always fancied getting the long range, then the refresh came so I decided to push the button on it, financially it worked out perfectly, used the equity in the sr+ as a deposit and the monthly stayed the same.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
10,349
88,353
Maple Falls, WA
Currently, Tesla as a brand is lower mid-pack in quality per CR, with the 3 achieving right in the middle.

I can't believe anyone would cite Consumer Reports as an authority on car quality. They lost my trust before Tesla was even making cars and recent reports classifying minor cosmetic issues as "reliability" issues have only reinforced my earlier observations.

Going forward, I think it is true that it will have to do better to compete effectively. I think it will.
PS My anecdote is that my 2020 M3P has slight body panel alignment flaws, poor paint "sturdiness" on the rear bumper (I now have mud flaps to slow the development of the "acne"), suffered from bad "toe alignment" that evidenced by uneven/rapid tire wear. The good news is that the chassis is stiffer and more bank vault like than ANY of my BMW's (5), my 2 MB SUVs and SLK. Toss-up with Porsche GT3 997.1. The surface quality of the paint (orange peel), BTW, is also better than all but the Porsche and maybe the SLK. Not bad for a company that introduced first ground-up car 8 years ago!

I wouldn't hold my breath for improvements. Most of the flaws are pretty inconsequential from a functional perspective and most people don't obsess over panel gaps unless it's a big enough variance to actually catch your eye when your not looking at them. Tesla is all about form and function and they don't try to encourage the anal obsessiveness that has crept into a very small but vocal minority of people who act like these things are really important.

And I tend to agree with Tesla here. If someone wants to buy another brand for those reasons, I say they are welcome to it. This would only be a problem for Tesla if their cars were not 6-8 years ahead of every other car on the market in the things that really matter to most of the car buying public. I actually feel sorry for the people who are so anal they would chose a substantially inferior product at a higher price just to get panel gaps that require a micrometer to detect a variance or paint that looks imperfection free even when using a magnifier.

I took my car to the service center for the first time when it was two years old because Tesla notified me they wanted to upgrade my cars computer from hardware v2.5 to the latest v3 computer. While I was waiting, I talked to a guy who had his brand new Tesla waiting for service. I asked him what the issue was with his new car and he told me it had a "pinhole" in the hood paint. I looked at his hood and it looked absolutely perfect and beautiful. I asked him where it was. It took him about 15 seconds to locate it in bright daylight. After looking up and down, back and forth from about 8 inches away he finally located it and put his finger near it. I leaned in for a closer look but could see nothing but perfect gloss. I thought his finger must be covering it up but he said "Right there, about an inch in front of my finger tip". I leaned in real close but couldn't see any defects in the surface of the paint. He said it's real small, just a little dust speck. Finally, I think I saw the smallest blemish you could imagine. I lightly dragged my fingertip over it but it was smooth. I said "you have a service appointment for this?" and he sheepishly nodded.

I think all the talk on the Internet caused him to check the car over extra carefully. After all that work, he HAD to find SOMETHING, LOL! :rolleyes:
 
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I ordered a M3P early September and was in it and driving 2 weeks later. My previous car was a Porsche Macan before that driving Boxster's. The build quality must vary car to car, the only issue if I'm being picky is the rear boot feels and sounds flimsy. Does it impact my driving nope. Oh and the rear and passenger seat belts leave brown marks on the white seats... wow thats really annoying! Build quality is a issue if you either get a rogue car or you're hyper picky.

I've had the Tesla ranger out twice to replace both rear lights due to condensation, again not a issue, if it was Porsche I'd be waiting 3 weeks to take it to a dealer.

Porsche have given me loads of freebies when buying cars, they all went in a cupboard never to be looked at again, I've actually bought a Tesla water bottle! which for me not being the type of person to buy car branded stuff, just shows how this car and the brand gets you to fall in love with it.

I love my Tesla and I've never said that about a car before.
 

Jibjab

Member
Aug 8, 2020
189
113
Doncaster
I ordered a M3P early September and was in it and driving 2 weeks later. My previous car was a Porsche Macan before that driving Boxster's. The build quality must vary car to car, the only issue if I'm being picky is the rear boot feels and sounds flimsy. Does it impact my driving nope. Oh and the rear and passenger seat belts leave brown marks on the white seats... wow thats really annoying! Build quality is a issue if you either get a rogue car or you're hyper picky.

I've had the Tesla ranger out twice to replace both rear lights due to condensation, again not a issue, if it was Porsche I'd be waiting 3 weeks to take it to a dealer.

Porsche have given me loads of freebies when buying cars, they all went in a cupboard never to be looked at again, I've actually bought a Tesla water bottle! which for me not being the type of person to buy car branded stuff, just shows how this car and the brand gets you to fall in love with it.

I love my Tesla and I've never said that about a car before.

I sold my Porsche freebies on eBay :) I think it was an espresso set and some etched glasses from memory.

For me my partner had to ground me. I whinge about the basic stuff that seems wrong with the Tesla (adaptive cruise, auto lights, trigger happy alerts) and forget that in perhaps most ways it’s so much further ahead than other manufacturers AND the car continually improves in a lot of ways when it’s simply sat on the drive.

The fit and finish seems a lot better on my refresh than the one I test drove. Could be subjective I suppose, but all panel gaps seem good, paint seems consistent and now with the power boot I can’t even whinge about how flimsy it felt before :)

There’s a few niggles, but I’ve had that on every car. The Porsche spat out all
It’s coolant the day after collection and had to be recovered! The Maserati mis fired and had to be recovered. The CLS 63 AMG had air suspension and electrical issues. The TVR, however, was a paragon of nano metric precision and almost NASA like attention to detail...I only once had to replace the chassis, wiring loom, diff, gearbox, interior, alarm, paint, steering rack and roof. Truly amazing.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,403
UK, Milton Keynes
Times are changing now with mainstream automakers coming out with EVs. They do so with new designs, sure, but with mature quality systems.

I don't have much respect for mainstream automakers since owning a Tesla. They are nowhere near perfect in terms of build quality either. I totally agree with what StealthP3D said in post #23. People need to stop obsessing with their micrometers, or at least be more objective when comparing their anal measurements against other cars. If you go poking closely around a BMW or Merc you can easily find similar "quality" issues, but a lot of people (including some motoring hacks) are simply brainwashed by the brand image. I'm not suggesting Tesla has amazing quality control here either, there are certainly issues. But the overall product is way ahead of the curve and that makes the odd niggle seem pretty irrelevant.
 

Malc

Member
Mar 9, 2020
5
3
UK
One of the things I like on my M3 is camping with the heating on overnight.
Presumably the refresh would have the heat pump whining away all night? Not sure that would be very pleasant.
Does anyone know if the refresh M3 have heating elements for when the battery is already too cold to heat the cabin?
The ability of the heat pump to warm the cabin is not dependent on the battery being warm enough. Just like a fridge can cool down from ambient by pumpin* the heat from the fridge into the room, the heat pump can pump heat from the environment into the cabin, cooling down the environment to do it. The genius in the Tesla design above all other heat pump implementations is the octavale, which can select what is heated and what is cooled in order to maximise efficiency at all times.
 
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Malc

Member
Mar 9, 2020
5
3
UK
The ability of the heat pump to warm the cabin is not dependent on the battery being warm enough. Just like a fridge can cool down from ambient by pumpin* the heat from the fridge into the room, the heat pump can pump heat from the environment into the cabin, cooling down the environment to do it. The genius in the Tesla design above all other heat pump implementations is the octavale, which can select what is heated and what is cooled in order to maximise efficiency at all times.
Don’t you just love autocorrect? Yeah, it’s “octovalve”
 

Malc

Member
Mar 9, 2020
5
3
UK
I don't have much respect for mainstream automakers since owning a Tesla. They are nowhere near perfect in terms of build quality either. I totally agree with what StealthP3D said in post #23. People need to stop obsessing with their micrometers, or at least be more objective when comparing their anal measurements against other cars. If you go poking closely around a BMW or Merc you can easily find similar "quality" issues, but a lot of people (including some motoring hacks) are simply brainwashed by the brand image. I'm not suggesting Tesla has amazing quality control here either, there are certainly issues. But the overall product is way ahead of the curve and that makes the odd niggle seem pretty irrelevant.
Completely agree. My 2019 M3P is not perfect, but it rattles less than my previous three Mercedes despite the firm ride and lack of air suspension.
 
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EmOne

Member
Mar 28, 2020
219
171
Chicago
I can't believe anyone would cite Consumer Reports as an authority on car quality. They lost my trust before Tesla was even making cars and recent reports classifying minor cosmetic issues as "reliability" issues have only reinforced my earlier observations.



I wouldn't hold my breath for improvements. Most of the flaws are pretty inconsequential from a functional perspective and most people don't obsess over panel gaps unless it's a big enough variance to actually catch your eye when your not looking at them. Tesla is all about form and function and they don't try to encourage the anal obsessiveness that has crept into a very small but vocal minority of people who act like these things are really important.

And I tend to agree with Tesla here. If someone wants to buy another brand for those reasons, I say they are welcome to it. This would only be a problem for Tesla if their cars were not 6-8 years ahead of every other car on the market in the things that really matter to most of the car buying public. I actually feel sorry for the people who are so anal they would chose a substantially inferior product at a higher price just to get panel gaps that require a micrometer to detect a variance or paint that looks imperfection free even when using a magnifier.

I took my car to the service center for the first time when it was two years old because Tesla notified me they wanted to upgrade my cars computer from hardware v2.5 to the latest v3 computer. While I was waiting, I talked to a guy who had his brand new Tesla waiting for service. I asked him what the issue was with his new car and he told me it had a "pinhole" in the hood paint. I looked at his hood and it looked absolutely perfect and beautiful. I asked him where it was. It took him about 15 seconds to locate it in bright daylight. After looking up and down, back and forth from about 8 inches away he finally located it and put his finger near it. I leaned in for a closer look but could see nothing but perfect gloss. I thought his finger must be covering it up but he said "Right there, about an inch in front of my finger tip". I leaned in real close but couldn't see any defects in the surface of the paint. He said it's real small, just a little dust speck. Finally, I think I saw the smallest blemish you could imagine. I lightly dragged my fingertip over it but it was smooth. I said "you have a service appointment for this?" and he sheepishly nodded.

I think all the talk on the Internet caused him to check the car over extra carefully. After all that work, he HAD to find SOMETHING, LOL! :rolleyes:
So I guess you prefer anecdotes or JD Power. Such arrogance. No one, including me, would site CR as some kind of oracle, but despite them coming out with either a 99 or 100 rating to the S when first tested, I think they are less biased than many sources and if you look at the details of their quality assessments you can certainly learn some things of interest. I also think they helped US discover that not all cars need to be built to fail, rattle and rust out. Charles Deming led the way, but CR was a conduit of his results. Part of the problem you find with them in your hypercritical stance has to do with their success. If you want to find fault with any cars that are still on the market, you generally have to resort to nit-picking because quality has moved so far that it is NOT much of an issue except for the most persnickety (or if you like to have electronics/infotainment that actually works for you and not against you.)
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
10,349
88,353
Maple Falls, WA
Times are changing now with mainstream automakers coming out with EVs. They do so with new designs, sure, but with mature quality systems.

I suppose it depends on what "quality" means to you. Look at the new Ford Mach-e: too much weight, not enough range and costs too much for what you get. And who knows about the quality of the battery, inverters, software and motors. These are all areas where legacy auto has little to no experience. And it shows in the new products coming out.

It's small consolation if the paint is absolutely perfect and the body panels line up with sub mm precision. You can put lipstick on a pig but that doesn't mean it's not a pig!
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
10,349
88,353
Maple Falls, WA
So I guess you prefer anecdotes or JD Power. Such arrogance. No one, including me, would site CR as some kind of oracle, but despite them coming out with either a 99 or 100 rating to the S when first tested, I think they are less biased than many sources and if you look at the details of their quality assessments you can certainly learn some things of interest. I also think they helped US discover that not all cars need to be built to fail, rattle and rust out. Charles Deming led the way, but CR was a conduit of his results. Part of the problem you find with them in your hypercritical stance has to do with their success. If you want to find fault with any cars that are still on the market, you generally have to resort to nit-picking because quality has moved so far that it is NOT much of an issue except for the most persnickety (or if you like to have electronics/infotainment that actually works for you and not against you.)

I didn't say Consumer Reports is biased. They simply don't know how to rate cars (and many other products). They are just people after all and there is no manual on this. Just because they have done it a certain way for decades doesn't make it right. In my observation, they often rate superior products poorly and cheap crap highly. You can nitpick the details and overlook real inadequacies. You are free to come to a different conclusion but I have more than a passing familiarity with many products they have rated highly when a product they rated much lower does a better job with more precision and less effort. The fact is, they often rate products in segments they know little about.
 

EmOne

Member
Mar 28, 2020
219
171
Chicago
I didn't say Consumer Reports is biased. They simply don't know how to rate cars (and many other products). They are just people after all and there is no manual on this. Just because they have done it a certain way for decades doesn't make it right. In my observation, they often rate superior products poorly and cheap crap highly. You can nitpick the details and overlook real inadequacies. You are free to come to a different conclusion but I have more than a passing familiarity with many products they have rated highly when a product they rated much lower does a better job with more precision and less effort. The fact is, they often rate products in segments they know little about.
I don't disagree with all that you say, just the arrogant aspect; who does do it better? As a Dermatologist, I can say unequivocally that they do the best job of anyone out there on rating sunscreens. Is it perfect? Nope! Can't let perfect get in the way of better than the other guy. I too have considerable experience with their bad recs and would love to see them make greater use of consumer feedback. Still, I'd take them on any subject over you until I see your credentials and methodology.
 

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