2022.4.5 promises non vomit inducing AP stop and go driving in the release notes. But it seems the same to me, am I missing something?

[refusedmd]

@jdgordon7 - have you noticed any improvement with the setting changes?

i just tried AP in stop and go freeway traffic and had a similar experience to your original post. i was actually afraid it would not break in time as the acceleration during the "go" period is much harder than i would do -- found myself disengaging AP by breaking on my own a number of times.

 

[jdgordon7]

@jdgordon7 - have you noticed any improvement with the setting changes?

i just tried AP in stop and go freeway traffic and had a similar experience to your original post. i was actually afraid it would not break in time as the acceleration during the "go" period is much harder than i would do -- found myself disengaging AP by breaking on my own a number of times.

Alas, AP is still worthless and unusable in stop and go traffic no matter what I have tried. This despite the fact that up until about two years ago AP performed amazingly in it's mind blowing ability to gradually/smoothly start and stop. Tesla should offer that 2019 release as an option in that even when they release level five autonomy, many would still prefer the 2019 release that was actually useable in stop and go traffic (the exact situation where people would most want to use AP... But can't).

 

[refusedmd]

Alas, AP is still worthless and unusable in stop and go traffic no matter what I have tried. This despite the fact that up until about two years ago AP performed amazingly in it's mind blowing ability to gradually/smoothly start and stop. Tesla should offer that 2019 release as an option in that even when they release level five autonomy, many would still prefer the 2019 release that was actually useable in stop and go traffic (the exact situation where people would most want to use AP... But can't).

well i guess im glad i never knew what the old release was like because i would be more annoyed!

i also tried adjusting the settings (5mph limit, 6-7 car length) during stop and go traffic to work tonight, still same result.

 

[jdgordon7]

well i guess im glad i never knew what the old release was like because i would be more annoyed!

i also tried adjusting the settings (5mph limit, 6-7 car length) during stop and go traffic to work tonight, still same result.

I just installed 2022.4.5.3 and this release seems to have improved the situation. I say seems because I only installed the release today and lucked out with moderate, not heavy, traffic. So I didn't have the real test, where you stop, go a few feet, stop, ad nauseam (or hopefully sans nauseam). Also the SOC was high (between 65 and 85) so I didn't have full regenerative breaking. If we are lucky we will simply need to keep the SOC at about 60% or less (for full regenerative breaking) and we'll be able to get through rush hour on AP without vomiting. ( It would be even better if AP just lightly used friction breaks to gradually come to a stop, but I will certainly very happily take a lower SOC if this works. ) Also, I hope it's not just gradual stopping but gradual acceleration as well. I'm not sure yet, I'll need to be in stop and go to tell, but this update at least seems to have improved the stopping, from what I can tell so far.

 

[jdgordon7]

Is it just me or did the 2022.8.2 update undo any slight improvement included in 2022.4.5.3 in making autopilot less vomit-inducing in stop-and-go traffic? It's again really horrible gunning it and then slamming on the breaks over and over. It's also possible 2022.4.5.3 didn't really improve it, though I thought it did. For the past two years I have always driven manually in stop-and-go traffic except when testing for improvements for the few minutes it takes to get nauseous. Since the programming required to bring autopilot's performance during stop and go up to the usable level it was about two years ago (gradual starts and stops) seems to be beyond Tesla's capabilities, maybe they could swap the center console for some kind of vomit sink/tank when FSD is purchased. That way those in the car would have someplace to vomit without making a mess during their hellish journey.

 

[EVNow]

The title of this thread is …. Vomit inducing.

 

[Supcom]

The title of this thread is …. Vomit inducing.

Must be a lot of smelly cars out there...

 

[metamix]

For me the TACC is now completely unusable because it accelerates too slow. Now it leaves a huge gap when the car in front accelerates, and takes many seconds before following properly. People behind me get annoyed, blinking and passing me. So I have to turn it off and drive manually. Completely non-functioning for me. This was changed in some software update.

Before this, it was perfect for me, holding a very consistent distance/time to the car in front, just as I want it in dense traffic.

I guess you cannot find a setting that fits all people, but this should be selectable or possibly follow Chill mode. If they make this selectable for FSD owners only, I find it provocative, because it is unusable as it is.

 

[jdgordon7]

For me the TACC is now completely unusable because it accelerates too slow. Now it leaves a huge gap when the car in front accelerates, and takes many seconds before following properly. People behind me get annoyed, blinking and passing me. So I have to turn it off and drive manually. Completely non-functioning for me. This was changed in some software update.

Before this, it was perfect for me, holding a very consistent distance/time to the car in front, just as I want it in dense traffic.

I guess you cannot find a setting that fits all people, but this should be selectable or possibly follow Chill mode. If they make this selectable for FSD owners only, I find it provocative, because it is unusable as it is.

Which model do you have? which computer? About how long ago did you notice this change? I have FSD computer model 3, the latest software. My car does the absolute opposite of what you describe, I wish it behaved as you describe. The only semi solution that I have found in heavy traffic is to limit the top speed to something like 5mph. This stops the headbanging style driving, but It's actually a pretty bad solution because people cut in front of you making your car stop anyway, but it's the only thing that might make TACC usable for those that get carsick.

Ultimately I agree with you though, if your car lets you pick non essential comfort settings, like how hard you want the fan to blow, radio station, etc. it seems like a no brainer to make a setting that would allow people on either end (carsick-Headbanger) to use TACC/AP (one of the main benefits to having a Tesla) in one of the exact situations where TACC/AP would be the greatest help/relief. It could be in AP Option menu:

Follow distance on AP Variability: Anti Carsick Mode/Smooth 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 Headbanger/Rage Driver


(for those that pick 10 (the cars current unchangeable default setting) there could be a small graphic of Angus Young head banging near the other icons on the bottom of the screen when AP detects stop and go traffic, and AC/DC could play loudly on the speakers, to let the driver really get into it)

 

[ev_go123]

I have also found autopilot next to useless in stop and go traffic. Nausea inducing but also just behaving like a very bad driver. Too slow to start moving, accelerates too hard, goes faster than the car in front of you, and then slams on the brakes uncomfortably late. It's like autopilot is drunk and angry.

I've tried following all following distances, tried chill mode, no help. I get the impression the Tesla team isn't prioritizing this. Even a simple fix such as just limiting the amount of acceleration the car has access to during stop and go would help this issue immensely. A slider for comfort/aggressive would be ideal.

 

[Silicon Desert]

My English teacher would be saying some people here don't know the difference between BRAKE and BREAK. Maybe that is Siri talking. It's an interesting thread though.

 

[Dewg]

Too slow to start moving, accelerates too hard, goes faster than the car in front of you, and then slams on the brakes uncomfortably late. It's like autopilot is drunk and angry.

It changes with each update - this most recent update started the hard acceleration from a stop. Previously it was slower to accelerate and people complained because they were inconveniencing the people behind them, or allowing people to cut in front of them. Tesla can't please everyone - someone is going to think it's too fast or too slow and bitch about it.

 

[2101Guy]

The mods sure are selective when it comes to editing or not editing thread titles

 

[ev_go123]

It changes with each update - this most recent update started the hard acceleration from a stop. Previously it was slower to accelerate and people complained because they were inconveniencing the people behind them, or allowing people to cut in front of them. Tesla can't please everyone - someone is going to think it's too fast or too slow and bitch about it.

I agree it might be personal preference on how hard autopilot accelerates, but regardless, it shouldn't wait to accelerate. I found it would wait for the car in front to start moving, build up a bit of a gap, and then blast to catch up and close the gap. Why let the gap appear in the first place?

If you're a human, paying very close attention to the car's velocity in front of you takes a lot of energy, so we get a bit lazy and might miss the car accelerating for a second or two. Understandable. But a computer shouldn't get lazy or miss judge the vehicle's speed in front. Which makes me wonder, is this poor following behavior due not using radar? One thing that radar is extremely good at is judging other car's speeds in real time, which you might imaging would be helpful in this case.

 

[Dewg]

But a computer shouldn't get lazy or miss judge the vehicle's speed in front. Which makes me wonder, is this poor following behavior due not using radar? One thing that radar is extremely good at is judging other car's speeds in real time, which you might imaging would be helpful in this case.

Nope. Visual knows the distance just fine. It's just software coding. Like I said, previously it accelerated more smoothly and slower. The pendulum is just swinging the other way. They will get it right eventually.

 

[bluetrep1]

as of today, still vomit style.

 

[TigerNinety]

I agree it might be personal preference on how hard autopilot accelerates, but regardless, it shouldn't wait to accelerate. I found it would wait for the car in front to start moving, build up a bit of a gap, and then blast to catch up and close the gap. Why let the gap appear in the first place?

If you're a human, paying very close attention to the car's velocity in front of you takes a lot of energy, so we get a bit lazy and might miss the car accelerating for a second or two. Understandable. But a computer shouldn't get lazy or miss judge the vehicle's speed in front. Which makes me wonder, is this poor following behavior due not using radar? One thing that radar is extremely good at is judging other car's speeds in real time, which you might imaging would be helpful in this case.

I’m in between Teslas right now and haven’t had one since a year ago, so I’m a bit rusty on this. But, it would seem like a great thing if the software would just learn how you drive in traffic and apply that pattern to AP in stop and go.

Personally, if I’m doing 65 and I see a line of red lights ahead, I take my foot of the accelerator and mostly coast to the stopped traffic. But my MS would mostly barrel toward the rear bumper of the first stopped car (even though I could see on the display that it saw that car) and then come to a rapid stop not far behind it (which always had me feeling like I’d get rear ended). Really, this shouldn’t be that hard…

 

[jdgordon7]

I have also found autopilot next to useless in stop and go traffic. Nausea inducing but also just behaving like a very bad driver. Too slow to start moving, accelerates too hard, goes faster than the car in front of you, and then slams on the brakes uncomfortably late. It's like autopilot is drunk and angry.

I've tried following all following distances, tried chill mode, no help. I get the impression the Tesla team isn't prioritizing this. Even a simple fix such as just limiting the amount of acceleration the car has access to during stop and go would help this issue immensely. A slider for comfort/aggressive would be ideal.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one noticing this, or the obvious and seemingly easy fix. Statistically, most people are susceptible to motion sickness, and one in three are highly susceptible to a degree that they can become carsick, with varying sensitivities within that one third. Maybe I'm crazy but 33% of car users seem like a not insignificant percentage to warrant attention. A comment I keep seeing repeated, presumable by the members of the two-thirds of the population that don't become carsick, is that Tesla can't please everyone so they just have to pick and some will be able to use autopilot in traffic and others won't. The people who state such fallacies miss two things. First, if Tesla forced gradual acceleration and gradual deceleration with AP in stop and go traffic everyone would be able to use AP in traffic, it's just that some people would prefer AP was more aggressive. It's only where AP is aggressive that a significant number of users can't use AP at all in traffic. Second, the above fallacy fails to realize that there are many settings in a Tesla (and every car) that are adjustable so as to make the car usable for the driver. Imagine if Tesla had a stationary, non-adjustable driver's seat that was all the way forward by the current adjustable standard. Those that make the "can't please everyone" argument would say " Well, the driver's seat is set so close to the front so that drivers that are five feet tall can reach the pedals, if the driver's seat was set any further back five-foot-tall drivers wouldn't be able to accelerate or brake, too bad for those that are taller than five feet, the seat has to be set someplace and you can't please everyone".

When AP is commonplace all the other car companies will have copied and reverse engineered Tesla's FSD code for all the incredible, impressive, complicated coding that other companies could never have accomplished from scratch. It's ironic however that those same other companies will get a significant portion of what would otherwise be Teslas customers (the up to one-third of the population susceptible to motion sickness in cars) because other car company's automated driving programmers were able to program and incorporate into their, otherwise inferior Tesla FSD copies, something that seems to be an insurmountable obstacle to Tesla programmers, a slide, 1-10 setting, or simply "motion sick aware" toggle, adjusting the aggressiveness of AP acceleration and deceleration in stop and go traffic.