Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

2022 Model 3 LR max range drop to 354 [in the UK]

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Showing % would mean you’re unaware of calibration drift and the cells becoming unbalanced, or other degradation, something you’d benefit from knowing. The suggestion is like saying the answer to high blood pressure is to stop measuring it.
With respect, I disagree.

The reason I advocate for percentage display is because it’s consistent with every other variable load device I own (e.g. phone, laptop, battery backup unit, etc)

The range the Model 3 shows is an arbitrary number based on environmental conditions (temperature) and an arbitrary calculation of battery voltage times a “typical” distance unit per kWh. As such, it’s a lab conditions measurement that will be inaccurate for anyone in the real world.

The obvious problem with that is that “miles remaining” is a meaningful measurement that could easily induce owners to think they can travel further than they actually can. People see a range in miles and think that’s how far they can actually travel.

What happens when the car tells you that you have 50 miles left, and you decide to pass a supercharger because there’s another one 35 miles further on the journey, and then you find 25 miles in that you didn’t actually have 50 actual miles that you could physically travel, you had less, because your driving style changed, the conditions changed, or whatever? People get stranded or get to the next location on the EV equivalent of fumes.

With percentage - because it’s not meaningful in the same sense as miles are - you can make a decision to supercharge at a certain SoC, and you’re not convincing yourself you have an actual amount of miles further you can travel. It’s safer and less anxiety inducing.

Just like my phone and laptop doesn’t tell me how many minutes remaining there is on my charge, because they don’t know how hard I’m going to push it from just point on, neither should my car be telling me how many actual miles I can travel on the remaining charge. I know it’ll only be vaguely accurate, and I don’t want to incorrectly start relying on that number.

The other benefit of % readouts compared to miles is that 100-0 is a much more progressive scale than <rated range>-0. This means the range (%) will go down in a naturally slower and more predictable way, than the “miles remaining” will. You might travel 1 actual mile and the onscreen display drops 3, for example.

With an 8 year warranty I don’t give much thought to degradation. If/when it gets to a point where I can’t travel a distance I previously could on a charge level, then I’d seek assistance. Until then it’s just even more stress, wondering “why I lost 5 miles since last month”, etc when that might not even be true.
 
You can't tell if you need to calibrate stuff if you're showing % as far as I know, so I'm with George, but then I'm a self confessed "display miler".

But I don't think George was saying your shouldn't show % if that's what you want, just that it didn't answer the question, if anything it ignored it, and that's rarely satisfactory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fantasmagorica
I’m not convinced that calibration and degradation aren’t boogeymen, to be honest.

People doing consistent full or near full charge journeys won’t experience “calibration issues”, because they’re using the full battery capacity. Those doing short trips constantly and not letting the car sit on high and low SoC - well what difference does it make except in the paranoid mind how far the car says it can go, because they’re not travelling those distances anyway?

These things are only an issue in my opinion if you make them an issue. The owners manual doesn’t even mention any procedure for calibration or degradation.
 
I'm fairly sure its real, I've seen it explained in a few places including here on TMC, and people reporting the fix works. Somebody recently said after solar panels were installed they started to lose displayed range as their charging pattern had changed from every few days to whenever they got home they'd start charging immediately. They said they got back the "lost" range. If you've an M3 which appears to be reporting a lower range than you'd like then maybe try and it and see what results you get. It could be a placebo thing, but not being convinced without following what's said to be happening isn't really evidence of it not being so. That said, lots of arguments related to Tesla aren't supported by facts either way :)
 
I'm fairly sure its real, I've seen it explained in a few places including here on TMC, and people reporting the fix works. Somebody recently said after solar panels were installed they started to lose displayed range as their charging pattern had changed from every few days to whenever they got home they'd start charging immediately. They said they got back the "lost" range. If you've an M3 which appears to be reporting a lower range than you'd like then maybe try and it and see what results you get. It could be a placebo thing, but not being convinced without following what's said to be happening isn't really evidence of it not being so. That said, lots of arguments related to Tesla aren't supported by facts either way :)
I have solar panels and a Zappi and my M3 is 90% charged using solar surplus up to 80%. My full range has hovered around 335 in summer and 325 in winter. I’ve not seen a drop off due to not fully charging or constant slow’ish charging.
 
If you are concerned that your range has significantly drifted, ask Tesla to reset the CAC (calculated amp-hour capacity) - much easier than all this battery recalibration bollox. This will reset the displayed 100% charge range back to the EPA range for your car which will give the BMS another chance of estimating the range from scratch. It will then drift back down and then up/down over time and find a new range that will fluctuate over time/temperature etc.

That said, I have never heard of a range as high as you have stated on the 100% charge limit display other than on a Model S so suspect that you didn’t see the 37x range on the same display as the 100% charge limit display so are not comparing like with like. The car maintains at least 2 range estimates and can often vary wildly, including being more than the EPA range if the car is driven gently - that one does not show in the 100% charge limit display but may do in the energy graph display.

At the end of the day, the range and % are both guesses and will fluctuate sometimes quite wildly up and down even over a very short period of time. I heard that a BMS estimating within 10% of true capacity for a lithium battery is pretty good going so +/- 30 miles or more being displayed is well within that. True battery degradation will be much smaller than these variations as shown by apparent negative ‘degradation’ - see some of the earlier graphs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Durzel
Basically about 3-4 weeks about my max range dropped from 374 to 354.
The range is an estimate based on the available kWh multiplied by a fixed miles/kWh. The range displayed does not change based on weather, how you drive, the position of the moon, etc.

The available kWh is actually quite difficult for the BMS (Battery Management System) to determine and it does the best it can, but will vary. If you use a narrow capacity, such as charging from 50% to 80% regularly, it particularly struggles. Many find that getting the battery very low and then charging on AC to 100% occasionally does make it more accurate.

Above said, the display isn't really that useful as you may get more or less miles/kWh depending on route, driving, weather, etc. Many people switch the display to percentage. To see a good prediction of range on a nav planned journey, do use the trip display screen. This knows about speed limits, elevation changes, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fantasmagorica
I’m
The range is an estimate based on the available kWh multiplied by a fixed miles/kWh. The range displayed does not change based on weather, how you drive, the position of the moon, etc.

The available kWh is actually quite difficult for the BMS (Battery Management System) to determine and it does the best it can, but will vary. If you use a narrow capacity, such as charging from 50% to 80% regularly, it particularly struggles. Many find that getting the battery very low and then charging on AC to 100% occasionally does make it more accurate.

Above said, the display isn't really that useful as you may get more or less miles/kWh depending on route, driving, weather, etc. Many people switch the display to percentage. To see a good prediction of range on a nav planned journey, do use the trip display screen. This knows about speed limits, elevation changes, etc.
Exactly, that's been my point from the start. :)

My concern is when I come to sell the vehicle and the "max range" is lower than it "should" be to comparable vehicles. Hence why I've been asking what fellow UK 2022 M3LR drivers/owners see as there max range.

I get an overnight tariff for 5 hours, so I only charge 45% (at a time) at the cheap rate, so I always keep the charge between 50-80%. That being said, I am trying to let the battery get down to 20%(ish) before charging.

In regards to the percentage vs miles, I always prefer the miles, as I find that if I drive with consideration I can get very close or better than the expected range. The trip display I use percentage, mainly because I don't think I can change that but once again I can either equal or better the percentage remaining at the end of a trip.

I've done a little over 14k in 6 months and averaging 248 kwh/mile, over that period but over the last 4k miles, 220 kwh/mile. Efficiency I'm not worried about, I was just trying to find out why the range suddenly dropped and what other (similar) owners are seeing as there max range.
 
I've done a little over 14k in 6 months and averaging 248 kwh/mile, over that period but over the last 4k miles, 220 kwh/mile. Efficiency I'm not worried about, I was just trying to find out why the range suddenly dropped and what other (similar) owners are seeing as there max range.

Why are you not worried about efficiency? (248 Wh/mile is what you got, which is great ... but not kWh!) That's what determines how many miles you can drive! You can't do anything to change the capacity of the battery* but you CAN modify your efficiency through modifying your driving. Your prediction may say 100 miles but I guarantee you could rag the thing remorselessly and get 25 miles or drive with the feather touch of an EV driving ninja and get 150.

*except worry about it
 
what confuses me is that it ever showed 374?
374 is the WLTP range. The cars have never to my knowledge used WLTP range for the in car range estimate.
The EPA range on which the in car range estimate is based is 358 miles for an M3 LR and you usually use a few miles pretty quickly. Not sure if degradation or BMS but it happens so 354 miles is almost exactly what I would have thought it should display.
or am I missing something?
 
The range is an estimate based on the available kWh multiplied by a fixed miles/kWh. The range displayed does not change based on weather, how you drive, the position of the moon, etc.

That's not actually true. The displayed (aka "rated") range (specifically the range in the charge limit display) will change based upon a number of factors because it is based on the CAC (see my post above) which will vary due to a number of factors, including temperature, although not on how you drive (that range is available elsewhere - see API for estimated vs rated range) or phases of the moon.

If the OP is not happy with their displayed range, ask Tesla to investigate and hopefully reset the CAC which will reset the displayed range back to that when the car was new and allow the car to have a fresh attempt at guessing the CAC and hence displayed range. I bet though that it will not be 37x miles as previously stated and that Tesla will not even bother to investigate as the stated range is as to be expected.
 
That's not actually true. The displayed (aka "rated") range (specifically the range in the charge limit display) will change based upon a number of factors because it is based on the CAC (see my post above) which will vary due to a number of factors, including temperature, although not on how you drive (that range is available elsewhere - see API for estimated vs rated range) or phases of the moon.

If the OP is not happy with their displayed range, ask Tesla to investigate and hopefully reset the CAC which will reset the displayed range back to that when the car was new and allow the car to have a fresh attempt at guessing the CAC and hence displayed range. I bet though that it will not be 37x miles as previously stated and that Tesla will not even bother to investigate as the stated range is as to be expected.
I've not heard of CAC before, but from your definition it's the capacity that the car understands for the battery, it's not in 'miles'. The miles is calculated by multiplying that capacity by a fixed efficiency that would achieve the EPA range.

While the cars opinion of the battery may be influenced by external factors, the efficiency figure is not. Temperature may contribute to drift in the capacity, but it will be a relatively small effect. When driving the same car on one hot day and one cold day the cars displayed range will be the same.

The prediction of battery over a planned route does consider temperature, elevation and loads of other factors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fantasmagorica
Why are you not worried about efficiency? (248 Wh/mile is what you got, which is great ... but not kWh!) That's what determines how many miles you can drive! You can't do anything to change the capacity of the battery* but you CAN modify your efficiency through modifying your driving. Your prediction may say 100 miles but I guarantee you could rag the thing remorselessly and get 25 miles or drive with the feather touch of an EV driving ninja and get 150.

*except worry about it
Because if the max range is 354 and I know I can get 220 wh/m without too much effort I know I will be able to to get that range. 220 wh/m is just over 4.5 miles per kWh. From my rough math and how the car predicts range, max range is worked out at about 4.2 miles per kwh. So if I can get more than that I can get greater than the 354 range. I pay 4.5kwh so for the 14k I’ve done to date, it’s cost me about £400 and that includes a few quick top ups at superchargers when I’ve got my charging schedule wrong. If my battery is still running at 100% capacity (Tesla have confirmed it is) I’m looking very good for the long haul of a healthy battery.

That’s what I was as concerned about and making sure that the battery is as healthy as can be. It’s about resale value vs keeping for the long haul based on the mileage I’m doing already.

Based on the comments (thanks everyone) I’m looking good and I was worried about nothing.
 
In regards to showing 376 as it did all I have is a video screenshot attached of the charge limit set to 80% and the car stating that would be 301 miles. If you then do the math, that’s 376 at 100%. Sadly I don’t have any photos of the 376 max range because I never thought I would need it.
412C000C-D8A0-4B38-A851-2E929E5AA94A.png
 
I don’t think anyone on this forum with a Model 3 (regardless of variant), has been able to have an on-screen range of 374 miles, let alone exceed that mileage in actual driving.

Either you have the unicorn of unicorn variants or you’ve completely misunderstood what you’ve been reading on-screen.

An outside possibility is that your car had an incorrect configuration sent to it and Tesla corrected this OTA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrMoonUK
I don’t think anyone on this forum with a Model 3 (regardless of variant), has been able to have an on-screen range of 374 miles, let alone exceed that mileage in actual driving.

Either you have the unicorn of unicorn variants or you’ve completely misunderstood what you’ve been reading on-screen.

An outside possibility is that your car had an incorrect configuration sent to it and Tesla corrected this OTA.
I think the on max screen range and exceeding that range are two different things.

The above photo shows that at 80% charge (what it was set to), if it was set to 90% then the range would have been 334, not 301. Which did make it 376. I think you're guess is right though, a recent update (the weather range one I believe) set the max range to what it "should have been".

In slow traffic 30-60 e.g. M25 most days, with the air con off, doing 180 watts per mile is no problem and that allows me to easily exceed the 374 max range. Hitting 400 is not impossible, yes it can be tedious but if you don't mind sitting in the slow lane with cruise/auto steer on heading down the motorway and not in a rush. Easily doable.
As I've said, I've got no problem with getting great efficiency and range while driving (when needed), it's the display of the max range I was concerned about. I guess it's because I can charge at home for 4.5p/kwh vs 50p/kwh (ish) at a supercharger, I aim at getting good efficiency on long drives to avoid "relatively" expensive re-charging.
Short drives, I tend not to get as good for the obvious reasons. :cool:
 
What software version were and are you running? I’ve only seen one other person on this forum claim to see the WLTP range and it was in the last few months when Tesla has started to play around with more predictive range estimates.

I just think you were incorrectly shown the wrong range initially and it has now corrected itself.
 
I've not heard of CAC before, but from your definition it's the capacity that the car understands for the battery, it's not in 'miles'.

I never said it was in miles - the clue is in the name - "calculated amp-hour capacity". What I said was that "The displayed (aka "rated") range (specifically the range in the charge limit display) will change based upon a number of factors because it is based on the CAC" which is not saying that the CAC is a distance parameter even though it one of the parameters that does directly influence it.

The CAC can fluctuate up and down, including over the course of a drive, although easier when the car is stationary, as you can see the % (and consequently the rated mileage) go up and down, often by quite a few %. We got a couple of % added today with the car sat there doing nothing, but that just offsets the % or 2 that gets 'lost' on other days - I've seen 5% or more % gains (and losses) before. This does have an effect on the calculated drive efficiency if the CAC changes during the course of the drive as the ending calculations will be based on a different set of base numbers than those at the start.

One of the biggest influences on CAC is temperature of the battery. Charge a cold night when the thermal mass of the battery is very cold, the car will not report a good range, but once you take it for a drive and things start to warm up, the % or range estimate (depending on what you are looking at) will increase and your reported Wh/mile will benefit as a result although that is not so obvious to see. There are other circumstances which can cause the CAC to change - ours went out of sync due to a couple of software update issues which instantly lost us 5% & 7% of CAC overnight (all but confirmed by Tesla short of them admitting a duff firmware update or two) - but back in sync after our CAC was reset fluctuating up and down as to be expected but tracking the Tesla fleet quite nicely which by the looks of it is now pretty much flat. No guess when Tesla reset our CAC - Y axis is estimated miles range at 100% (TeslaFi battery report).

1661895059706.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: fantasmagorica
One of the biggest influences on CAC is temperature of the battery. Charge a cold night when the thermal mass of the battery is very cold, the car will not report a good range, but once you take it for a drive and things start to warm up, the % or range estimate (depending on what you are looking at) will increase and your reported Wh/mile will benefit as a result although that is not so obvious to see. There are other circumstances which can cause the CAC to change - ours went out of sync due to a couple of software update issues which instantly lost us 5% & 7% of CAC overnight (all but confirmed by Tesla short of them admitting a duff firmware update or two) - but back in sync after our CAC was reset fluctuating up and down as to be expected but tracking the Tesla fleet quite nicely which by the looks of it is now pretty much flat. No guess when Tesla reset our CAC - Y axis is estimated miles range at 100%
If that were the case then your capacity graph would show a decrease in winter and increase in summer, it does not, neither does mine. I'm not saying there is no effect, but it is minor. The BMS knows and compensates for temperature changes, and on especially cold days the car will show you in blue when there is capacity you can't access until it warms up. There are lots of threads on here about how the cars can get a false opinion on range based on not having sufficient data points, and no doubt there can be errors. I don't think it really matters, the power is actually there if you are going to use it.

To the point of this thread, there is no way that temperature is related to the range drop that the OP reported. I would conclude it's all just good reason to not use the mile display, creates confusion.