2022 Model Y 4680 Structural Pack is "Amazing", Says Munro & Associates

Munro & Associates has just released an analysis of the structural pack for Tesla's 4680 battery cells, having just received a 2022 Model Y SR from Giga Texas.

In their analysis, Cory Steuben (President of Munro & Associates) and Julian Aytes (lead engineer) found that the car's front seats are directly mounted onto the structural pack itself, making the structural pack essentially the vehicle's floor itself.

"It's absolutely mind-blowing to be standing under a vehicle on a hoist and have absolutely nothing for the floor structure. To truly understand how amazing it is to see a vehicle with no floor and the seats mounted to the top of the structure on the pack, you have to go back more than years, but decades."

(Source: Munro & Associates)

The structural pack, including the seats and other components mounted to it, weighs 1,198 pounds, which is "incredible because in a couple of the other EVs we have, the batteries will weigh twice that. Just the batteries. No seat, no carpet, no trim."

According to Elon Musk, the structural pack is "the right overall architecture from a physics standpoint, but still far from optimized," which seems to be a modest take on the speed of Tesla's design improvements.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1544511999392071680

Despite minor manufacturing issues found by the team, the Giga Press casting machines, noted as the world's largest high-pressure die casting machines, have done an amazing job at astronomically decreasing both parts and complexity for the structure of the chassis itself.

"At Munro & Associates, we've seen the development of the automotive industry for the past 30 to 40 years. I've come from a background of benchmarking vehicles where you'd have hundreds of stamped parts where this front giga casting is, and hundreds of parts in the back. The level of refinement and integration is incredible. Tesla is not waiting to integrate the casting for multiple mounting features."

Overall, these improvements have come from decades of constant work and continuous improvement on Tesla's end, and it is clear to see why Tesla is so ahead of many other manufacturers in terms of vehicle and battery structure.

Steuben mentions that the next goal for their analysis is to remove the battery cover and be able to know how Tesla is securing the 4680 cells themselves and take a look inside the battery pack itself.

The full breakdown and analysis is linked below.

 

[sleepydoc]

This is really cool that 4680 battery pack is finally coming out. My two concerns with it are first, since it’s integral to the car’s frame, any issue or damage to the battery likely means replacing the car (unless Tesla has figured out a way to avoid that,) and second, it’s a new design both for the vehicle architecture and the battery itself. In any new design it’s not uncommon to have issues. Hopefully there won’t be any, or they‘ll be minor because this has the potential to be a major step forward for Tesla and EVs in general.

 

[YCedric]

I was surprised at the ease to remove the pack. They can at least replace the pack if needed.

I'm guessing it is one big pack, so no replacing of modules. Eagerly anticipating the rest of the series.

 

[P3dStealth]

What are the benefits to making the battery pack part of the car frame?

I am also wondering about the heat transfer into the cabin since the pack literally is the floor of the cabin now.

 

[glide]

Remember when people were delaying orders for this pack because “moar range!”

While it is an impressive engineering feat, it benefits the manufacturer far more than the end-user.

 

[YCedric]

What are the benefits to making the battery pack part of the car frame?

I am also wondering about the heat transfer into the cabin since the pack literally is the floor of the cabin now.

There should be more room for passengers and batteries since you require less housing space.

Remember when people were delaying orders for this pack because “moar range!”

While it is an impressive engineering feat, it benefits the manufacturer far more than the end-user.

There is a shortage of 4680 cells, hence the decision to introduce a SR Model Y. I would expect them to release a LR+ once all plants can use the structural pack. Having said that, I was expecting the S & X to get that pack first because of the lower volume. They can however use all the cells they are getting and will need quite a few more for the semi, cybertruck and to a less extent, roadster.

One production is upto speed, I'm guessing 2170 will be reserved for the Model 3, while the rest goes for 4680, except S & X.

 

[2101Guy]

Remember when people were delaying orders for this pack because “moar range!”

While it is an impressive engineering feat, it benefits the manufacturer far more than the end-user.

54% improvement in range. Thats really impressive that the Austin Y's now have that much more range as Tesla promised.

"According to Tesla's Battery Day presentation, all the cell chemistry, design, and manufacturing advancements that come with the 4680 cells amount to a 54% improvement in range, 56% improvement in cost per kilowatt-hour, and a 69% reduction in capital expenditure."

 

[2101Guy]

What are the benefits to making the battery pack part of the car frame?

I am also wondering about the heat transfer into the cabin since the pack literally is the floor of the cabin now.

Less weight and cheaper production costs come to mind.

 

[sleepydoc]

Ok, I just had a chance to watch and pay full attention to the video and I'm even more impressed. The concern I voiced above about replacing the pack seems to be a non-issue. It appears Tesla has managed to create a design that makes it as straight forward as one can possibly expect. Not to mention it's really cool to see the car split apart like that!

What are the benefits to making the battery pack part of the car frame?

I am also wondering about the heat transfer into the cabin since the pack literally is the floor of the cabin now.

Decreased weight - in the video they said the battery with the seats and console attached weighed 1200 lbs (550 kg) and compared that to other EVs they've analyzed that had batteries alone that weighed twice as much. It also appears to actually simplify construction as well.

 

[DrChaos]

What are the benefits to making the battery pack part of the car frame?

I am also wondering about the heat transfer into the cabin since the pack literally is the floor of the cabin now.

Mass savings and manufacturing savings primarily, no need for a separate container placed into the frame. It means that the rigidity of the battery pack contributes to the needed rigidity of the car.

The analogy was aircraft storing fuel in the wings: in early days there were internal fuel bladders or cans inside an external structure/skin, but no longer.

And I don't think heat transfer would have been much different with a conventional system as there would be only another metal panel which would conduct heat easily.

 

[zecar]

So why isn't the Austin Y more efficient than the Fremont Y?

 

[P3dStealth]

[/QUOTE]

Decreased weight - in the video they said the battery with the seats and console attached weighed 1200 lbs (550 kg) and compared that to other EVs they've analyzed that had batteries alone that weighed twice as much. It also appears to actually simplify construction as well.

I was thinking about that quote also. That quote from them is questionable. They don't say what the pack capacity is. It could be just a smaller capacity pack so it weighs less. Also if a Tesla model 3 long range pack weighs 1060lbs this isn't really that big of a deal. The mach e pack is 1069lbs even.

Watch Ford Mustang Mach-E Battery Removal By Munro Live

In the latest episode about the Ford Mustang Mach-E teardown with Munro Live, Sandy Munro and Ben Lindamood present the removal of the battery pack.

insideevs.com

 

[P3dStealth]

Mass savings and manufacturing savings primarily, no need for a separate container placed into the frame. It means that the rigidity of the battery pack contributes to the needed rigidity of the car.

The analogy was aircraft storing fuel in the wings: in early days there were internal fuel bladders or cans inside an external structure/skin, but no longer.

And I don't think heat transfer would have been much different with a conventional system as there would be only another metal panel which would conduct heat easily.

There is an air gap between the battery and the floor on my 3 Also some insulation if you are one of the lucky. I took my 3 in for service once because the back floor flexs and sounds like a steel drum if you tap your feet on it. Turns out my car is missing the insulation. Not a big deal though.

Arguably a hot pack could make people in cold climates happy anyway if it happens. I wouldn't mind it in winter.

 

[sleepydoc]

I was thinking about that quote also. That quote from them is questionable. They don't say what the pack capacity is. It could be just a smaller capacity pack so it weighs less. Also if a Tesla model 3 long range pack weighs 1060lbs this isn't really that big of a deal. The mach e pack is 1069lbs even.

how much does the new design affect total body weight? if integrating the battery into the structure decreases the amount of material needed it will save both money and weight.

 

[cusetownusa]

54% improvement in range. Thats really impressive that the Austin Y's now have that much more range as Tesla promised.

"According to Tesla's Battery Day presentation, all the cell chemistry, design, and manufacturing advancements that come with the 4680 cells amount to a 54% improvement in range, 56% improvement in cost per kilowatt-hour, and a 69% reduction in capital expenditure."

Tesla did not promise at the Battery Dat Presentation that the Austin Y's would have a 54% improvement in range over the Fremont Y's. The presentation was specifically about the new battery cell (4680), structural battery pack, and ultimate cost saving per KWH, once all the benefits/improvements are made over the next few years. There was no mention of the Austin Model Y and its range.

Over the next few years or so, once they fully implement all of the 4680 improvements (Cell design - 16%, Anode Material-20%, Cathode Material-4%, Vehicle integration-14%), the range increase will be 54% total. Nothing about what the range of any of the vehicles utilizing the new cells will be. The range of the cars will just depend on how many 4680 cells are used in the battery pack.

 

[advocate8]

54% improvement in range. Thats really impressive that the Austin Y's now have that much more range as Tesla promised.

"According to Tesla's Battery Day presentation, all the cell chemistry, design, and manufacturing advancements that come with the 4680 cells amount to a 54% improvement in range, 56% improvement in cost per kilowatt-hour, and a 69% reduction in capital expenditure."

this is sarcasm, right?

 

[Electroman]

54% improvement in range. Thats really impressive that the Austin Y's now have that much more range as Tesla promised.

"According to Tesla's Battery Day presentation, all the cell chemistry, design, and manufacturing advancements that come with the 4680 cells amount to a 54% improvement in range, 56% improvement in cost per kilowatt-hour, and a 69% reduction in capital expenditure."

I don't remember them mentioning any increase in range. There was a mention of increase in energy per cell. But from pack energy density perspective there is not much change, because the 4680 cells are bigger in volume and hence less number of cells can be packed in a battery pack, so overall energy is the same at a pack level irrespective of 2170 or 4680. So no increase in range.

 

[SageBrush]

I'm looking forward to seeing a photo of a worker standing upright in the car doing work.

 

[SageBrush]

I don't remember them mentioning any increase in range. There was a mention of increase in energy per cell. But from pack energy density perspective there is not much change, because the 4680 cells are bigger in volume and hence less number of cells can be packed in a battery pack, so overall energy is the same at a pack level irrespective of 2170 or 4680. So no increase in range.

I think this is the relevant part of battery day. Elon says that mass and volume is saved by using the honeycomb between the cells as both flame retardant and for mechanical shear strength (presumably when adhering to the cells).

 

[SageBrush]

Here is another summary slide from battery day. I don't remember what is involved in 'cell design' or its timeline. So I expect near term volumetric range increases of near 14%, and perhaps another 16% depending on 'cell design.'