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2022 Solo Nats [2022 Tire Rack SCCA Solo Nationals]
- Thread starter The Other Dan
- Start date
The CAM guys are sneaky and saw this coming. They amended the rules in 2020 with the section in red:
Which honestly feels kinda redundant given no EV really follows the "FE/RWD" drivetrain rule either. They just REALLY don't want us
Which makes me want to try and get us in....
jackmott
Member
There was a similar social dynamic in autocross when the WRX-STI and EVO went in to F-STOCK. The cars were well matched, a camaro was still winning the big events, but was still mad as hell. So eventually the WRX and EVO got kicked out, and to me that just made FSTOCK seem lame.
But you know none of this stuff matters much if you aren't trying to win nationals. You can still go to an event and beat all the CAM gals and then give them *sugar*
But you know none of this stuff matters much if you aren't trying to win nationals. You can still go to an event and beat all the CAM gals and then give them *sugar*
Were there any shenanigans behind the recent moves of SS 1LE and a bunch of Mustangs from BS to FS? Those cars seemed quite competitive in BS, and are killing it in PAX this year anywhere you look.
jackmott
Member
Interesting single data point between Dan and I last weekend running EVX. Both on 19s with PS4S. His stock, mine with OTS MPP Sport Coilovers at factory suggested settings.
I have about -1.3deg camber to his whatever stock had, -.2deg ish?
My first run (dirty) stood as my quickest raw time. 3rd run was definitely better up till I blew a corner and went around a gate the hardway. It was going to be a high 40.xx. After that, the tires greased up and we just lost grip. Should have been spraying but didnt even think about it till the end of day.
Dan got to 42.1 but says a mistake in the long sweeper cost him. Assume he had a 41.9 in it.
Driver difference, Dan is a solid driver and definitely smoother than me. I'm aggressive, but I'm use to a very stiff Evo.
So Racer Math time. Lets say the M3P really is a BS car buried in SS. The BS pax times our ratio of presumptive times, 0.818 * 41.9/40.9 = 0.838
Its just a single data point, but with max tires size, real camber, and more spring rate, an EVX car should be a good 2sec quicker than an SS build on a 40sec course or 3 sec on a 60sec.
I have about -1.3deg camber to his whatever stock had, -.2deg ish?
My first run (dirty) stood as my quickest raw time. 3rd run was definitely better up till I blew a corner and went around a gate the hardway. It was going to be a high 40.xx. After that, the tires greased up and we just lost grip. Should have been spraying but didnt even think about it till the end of day.
Dan got to 42.1 but says a mistake in the long sweeper cost him. Assume he had a 41.9 in it.
Driver difference, Dan is a solid driver and definitely smoother than me. I'm aggressive, but I'm use to a very stiff Evo.
So Racer Math time. Lets say the M3P really is a BS car buried in SS. The BS pax times our ratio of presumptive times, 0.818 * 41.9/40.9 = 0.838
Its just a single data point, but with max tires size, real camber, and more spring rate, an EVX car should be a good 2sec quicker than an SS build on a 40sec course or 3 sec on a 60sec.
First, congrats at Nationals!
Just this weekend I ran 265 PS4S's for half my runs and full 295 Hoosier A7's for the other half (12 runs). On a car with ~2.3 camber front, ~1.8 rear, a reasonable EV-X spring/shock setup, and a rear sway bar. The tire change ran me 2.3s faster on a 56 second course. That's 4%. But a real SS legal 200TW tire would be in the middle, so about 2% of the time increase would come from tires that are SS legal (265 on a 9" rim is SS legal). Which is actually more than the PAX assumes for Hoosiers- SS to SSR is only a 1.6% increase.
I really don't think the car will get 3-3.5% faster if you go up ~35mm in tire width (265 to 295/305), increase camber some, and get stiffer springs. The car doesn't need a front sway and the rear sway is SS legal.
A 3% change is pretty massive- That's the difference between a SS car and a GS car. EV-X is basically STU for EV's. An STi going from DS to STU only gets 2.2%, and is allowed to do power mods that EV-X is not.
I think we're more in the 1.5% range, with the base being a BS car. But I'll admit, that still takes us from 0.818 to 0.833, which really isn't that different from the 0.835 we have today. I think the difference is that the base stock car isn't a nationally competitive BS car in 2022 against the modern BS cars like a Supra, so a number like 0.830 is more reasonable, dead on with SS when in full EV-X trim.
Which looks a lot like I see out there- good EV-X cars are basically dead on with SS and STU cars when well driven. But not 0.5% faster.
Hopefully we got a lot more EV-X data this year for PAX and will get a rational adjustment.
Plus, in those results, AS, BS, STU and most others came in below the 2.5% index, so they should get lower PAX next year!
Clearly the group that keeps setting top PAX in local events need to actually show up at Nationals and see how they do against one another and the top SS/AS/STU drivers. We've got some solid drivers here!
The problem for me personally is the course design. My local events have shorter courses with tight corners where the M3P can make use of the insta torque. The longer courses of the national tour, for me, don't offer the same advantages. I went to the red hills national tour stop in south Georgia this year and got spanked. But hey, I was first in EVX, and last. Lol
I think I just need more seat time on longer open courses. Really thinking about hitting nationals next year. There's a bunch of guys in my region that go every year and it sounds like a blast.
Exactly. Plenty of those around, and those are the ones driving the PAX up, because the poorer results from faster courses for the same drivers/clubs against the same drivers are getting censored due to the 105% cut-off.
Nationals style course this weekend with 200ish participants, several national champs and trophy winners in attendance. 7% off top PAX, did not raw-time a competent but not top-driver-driven GT3. But at least 2-3 percentage of those 7 were likely due to my poor looking far ahead skills.
So, I'd say in the hands of a competent driver our cars can probably be within 5% of top times at least on some national tour events.
So, I'd say in the hands of a competent driver our cars can probably be within 5% of top times at least on some national tour events.
