2023 HW4/AP4 Model S Plaid Camera/AutoPilot Issues

[momoz74]

Well.. Let me start by first saying... I love the Plaid and fully understand not having AutoPilot working doesn't prevent the car from being a car. (Seen several posts here and or on Reddit slamming owners for complaining about "core" features not working for periods of time). I get it.. However...

Traded my 2019 M3P and Took delivery of the new HW4/AP4 Model S Plaid March 30 in Orlando. Beautiful car, no real delivery issues I could see/find (outside of Driver door hard to shut but appears to be breaking in). Drove out of the "mall parking lot delivery location" (funny, but actually considering how many they have to deliver in Orlando, it's not a bad setup). I get on the interstate, try to enable autopilot, "Camera needs alignment".. yikes, so I figure, oh, it just needs to be calibrated. No calibration. Car will not calibrate, gets stuck at 94-99% and goes up and down for 200 miles. I placed a service ticket in the mobile app, get a mobile service appt (for a week away..). The day off, get a message they have converted it to a "Service Center Appointment" and it's going to be another week.

Ok, I can deal with it. Get the car to the service center at my scheduled appt 7:45am, they are backed up.. 6 others in front of me. 9am I'm out with a loaner. Car literally sits in a remote "graveyard lot" for 4 days without moving.. finally get a message "we have to order a part.. ETA 2-3 more days. Car sits for 4 more days. App responses from service center very bland "Car in-service", while it wasn't.. still sitting at the graveyard lot. (later to see when I get the car back, under oak trees).

Finally.. this Saturday, the car is ready. They replaced the forward camera cluster. Get there, drive off and wow.. autopilot engages. NO! It's hugging the right side of all lanes so bad I have people honking at me. When I turn it off and get to left of center, alerts "Take over immediately". Clearly it's not aligned and calibrated. Since the mobile app service is now closed out, they won't message me back on that service, I have to open a new ticket. No response and another "mobile service appt" scheduled for later this week which certainly will follow the same pattern since they can't do camera work remotely??

Over the weekend.. Frustrated with how it's clearly not working, I hit the clear calibration and think.. well let's just let it recalibrate. Same scenario.. Will not calibrate. I read somewhere to check for alerts/active issues in service mode and certainly, there is an active event and more frustrating, it was there before I got the car back too!

Error: APP_w349_cameraPersistentlyFaulted. Audience [service-fix,factory] (set condition: The Autopilot ECU detects one more more cameras are experiencing a persistent condition resulting in stream exits during the majority of reboots).

I've also been wondering if HW4 differences are at play here? Is the software not setup to calibrate the new resolution of the cameras? Is there something new or faulty?

I really think Tesla needs to address the service centers processes and new delivery issues. Any car with issues like this from delivery, you would think they would have a special process to get expedited. Why drop off a car you know you can't work on for days.. schedule people and appointments differently. Check all errors and validate things work before releasing.. and when a customer drives off and the problem comes back same day, have a process to get it back in.. not another week or two or three. They have an amazing product and all of the "bones" of a great service experience unlike any other. The mobile app service framework could really be great, if they fix the people side of things (scheduling, planning, organizing, customer service attitude, better communication). I have heard so many "good experiences" but I really wonder if it's the result here in Orlando of too much repair volume, undersized facility and poor leadership on service manager side.


Sorry for the long story.. just needed to vent.... Having the 2019 M3P for 4 years with ZERO issues.. I guess I didn't understand how having issues with tesla's is so complicated.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I really think Tesla needs to address the service centers processes and new delivery issues.

Every aspect of service has only been getting worse since I started with Tesla's over 3 years ago. Clearly, it will only continue to get worse, especially after they cited higher warranty costs in their poor performance this last quarter. Buckle up!

 

[jebinc]

 

[richyrich]

Every aspect of service has only been getting worse since I started with Tesla's over 3 years ago. Clearly, it will only continue to get worse, especially after they cited higher warranty costs in their poor performance this last quarter. Buckle up!

Not for me. Got my 2018 when my city didn’t even have a service centre. Only three rangers. They were great then and it was no issue. Now we have two service centres and the service and attitude of staff is still night and day from the legacy auto experiences I had for years.

My conclusion over the years is it’s variability in different service centres that’s the big issue for Tesla. There’s some really good ones (mine), some terrible ones, and everything in between. But let’s not repeat the silly FUD that all Tesla service sucks.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Not for me. Got my 2018 when my city didn’t even have a service centre. Only three rangers. They were great then and it was no issue. Now we have two service centres and the service and attitude of staff is still night and day from the legacy auto experiences I had for years.

My conclusion over the years is it’s variability in different service centres that’s the big issue for Tesla. There’s some really good ones (mine), some terrible ones, and everything in between. But let’s not repeat the silly FUD that all Tesla service sucks.

We're all moving to Ottawa!

 

[momoz74]

update.. Second stent in the Service Center. What I fail to understand is WHY do they give you an appointment that is like a week or two out, and when you drop it off in the morning it literally SITS to be seen for 3 days! This is two times in a month where it's the same process. It's an added frustration for the owner and a complete WASTE of money for Tesla. They give 100/day Uber or a loaner (or in my case since they had no longer a Hertz Rental) for their lack of process and organization.

Zero updates along the way and when I ask, the responses are just plain crap. "you're in queue". "in Service" etc.

The sheer waste of money could afford larger service centers, more tech and better process. Their "Tech" for managing the service is all there to be better than ANYONE.. they just need to invest in people and process.

I'm betting it will be the same again.. after 3 days of sitting, they will spend 30 mins diagnosing and have to order parts which will then take 3-5 days.. then 3 days of sitting (after parts are in) to get it back in the shop from the Tesla graveyard to then do an hours work. For a total of 7-10 days at a cost of 750-1000 just for the loaner/rental/credits.

mind numbing... ?

 

[richyrich]

What I fail to understand is WHY do they give you an appointment that is like a week or two out, and when you drop it off in the morning it literally SITS to be seen for 3 days! This is two times in a month where it's the same process. It's an added frustration for the owner and a complete WASTE of money for Tesla.

Most places do this. The main reasons are two fold - firstly, by it’s nature diagnostic/repair work on anything complex is unpredictable - an issue could be solved quickly that you had booked in for hours, or fixing a seemingly simple problem could run into something larger that you have to solve first - this stuff happens all the time. Secondly, even if this was solved and timings were perfect, if you tell people to be there at a specific time, you can guarantee a proportion each day would be late, so then you have techs sitting around waiting and the whole schedule gets screwed up because you then make every other appointment late, or you stop work before you finish just to meet the window, which isn’t really an option.

Simply put, it’s not easy!

 

[momoz74]

Well. Not sure I can believe this. Another front facing camera replacement all in 37 days and 15 days in the shop. Tesla has literally put half the miles on this car trying to get it to calibrate! Now not expected to be done until the 15th!

 

[DayTrippin]

Looks like HW4 may be the gift that keeps on giving. Sorry you are having these troubles.

 

[jeremymc7]

Every aspect of service has only been getting worse since I started with Tesla's over 3 years ago.

Steve “The Woz” Wozniak was just quoted in an interview that he’s been waiting for 3 months for a button for his steering wheel to come in. He also wasn’t happy having upgraded at least 3 times due to failed promises that each version of FSB HW was all that would be needed. Lastly he said he has a Lucid on order and was thrilled that it will have a much longer range than Tesla and faster charging. Woz of course doesn’t realize those faster chargers aren’t nearly anywhere near as common as the Tesla 250 chargers. And Tesla has faster chargers coming and will likely expand quicker. Lucid also has their own issues with quality and recalls. Who knows about service so far, but seriously how many service locations does Lucid even have.

That also said I might be considering a Polestar, the budget Lucid (if it comes out), or whatever else might be here in the coming few years. Getting close to done with Tesla myself, but not there.

 

[momoz74]

Yeah. I’m highly considering a buyback request and tracking the details for lemon law.. very close to meeting requirements.
My 2019 M3P was flawless. Really miss it and love Tesla. If I did a buyback, I will go back to a gas car as any other EV just doesn’t compare.

 

[jeremymc7]

Most places do this.

What I fail to understand is WHY do they give you an appointment that is like a week or two out, and when you drop it off in the morning it literally SITS to be seen for 3 days!

When I had my Audi A7 the car (almost) never Sat more than a day. They would tell me if they were booked or not and if they couldn’t work on the car they would tell me what day to bring it.

The only time I really had issue with Audi was an understandable situation. There was a weird situation with the Transmission that they couldn’t resolve themselves. They eventually had to get engineers at Germany involved and with time difference and complexity of repair it took longer. Eventually they needed to replace a part that no one in the US had ever ordered and there was no stock anywhere in the US. They had to air the part from Germany and then start the repair again. I had a more expensive loaner the whole time and they kept me informed as well each step.

If Audi had had anything comparable to Tesla at the time, or even now I would have got one. But now Audi dealership which literally walking distance changed hands to a nationwide owner and Tesla built a service center also walking distance alonng with 6 SC locations within 10 min of my house.

It’s like hands up in the air where I go from here now.

 

[momoz74]

Looks like HW4 may be the gift that keeps on giving. Sorry you are having these troubles.

I’ve really wondered if it’s not something else HW4 related… one replacement is one thing. The same camera failing twice, probabilities drop and it’s really something else like wiring or connections on one or both ends or a frayed wire. This is my largest concern is that they are chasing a component.. and apparently don’t have the right tools or insight to fix this.
In the service manual it literally says perform firmware via the toolbox. When I got the car back the first replacement a day later it said “camera software update required”. So clearly they are not following the service manual steps.

 

[jeremymc7]

If I did a buyback, I will go back to a gas car as any other EV just doesn’t compare.

Lucid perhaps ?

Still infancy though.

 

[DayTrippin]

I’ve really wondered if it’s not something else HW4 related… one replacement is one thing. The same camera failing twice, probabilities drop and it’s really something else like wiring or connections on one or both ends or a frayed wire. This is my largest concern is that they are chasing a component.. and apparently don’t have the right tools or insight to fix this.
In the service manual it literally says perform firmware via the toolbox. When I got the car back the first replacement a day later it said “camera software update required”. So clearly they are not following the service manual steps.

As with anything, there will be issues troubleshooting new systems. At the same time, it is too early to tell if there are any design deficiencies with the rollout of HW4. More likely than not as Tesla tends to treat us all like Alpha testers. I think they are being optimistic sometimes when they even call something as being in Beta...

I hope it all works out for you. Sucks having a brand new car and not being able to drive it. My car sat for an entire month when they delivered my S with such an issue that if I continued to drive it, would have made everything much worse, cause a lot more damage and a large amount of my car to be repainted. Then I would have had an issue with resale later if I just drove it as they suggested. There was no gap between the driver's door and fender. It was literally bending the fender and door metal each time it opened. There would have been a lot to repair and repaint after a month of doing this. They shouldn't have delivered my car the way it was and it shouldn't have taken a month to get it fixed on a brand new car.

 

[jeremymc7]

Rule of thumb is to not buy the first year of new car, or substantially revised model.

 

[DayTrippin]

Yep, that is always good advice. I wish I could have done that with my Y but it changed between ordering and delivery. I didn't get the notice about radar removal until the delivery of the car. I had already sold the car the Y was replacing and our other car was out of state so sort of felt trapped and already had the loan taken out.

I did that with my S, and pushed my delivery out from mid-2021 to early 2022. At least by then, I knew what most of the issues could be before I took delivery of it. Of course they made significant upgrades a week or 2 after delivery of mine.

With HW4, all bets are off for sure. You do know you are facing the major loss of USS with nothing remotely close yet to take over for it. So you are at even more of a disadvantage and at the mercy of Tesla.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

Sorry for all your troubles @momoz74, it seems that this really is the luck of the draw. I have ~ 1200 miles on my 2023 Model S Plaid and have not run into a single issue. I know the person who has the 2023 Model S Plaid one VIN number different than mine, and his is the same as mine; no issues at all. I wonder if there is any chance that Tesla would allow you a “do over” starting from scratch with a new vehicle? I suspect it is highly unlikely, but I wonder if it would hurt to ask?

Joe

 

[momoz74]

Update: 2 full weeks in.. They found that the coax front camera cable was routed wrong and pushing camera out of pitch. Solved that problem and it calibrated.

Picked up the car, get in interstate and the minute autopilot engaged it pulled the car to the right of the lane, nearly on the line. Took it back and got the service manager to come on a test ride with me.... He confirmed I am right.. wayyy too close to the right of the lane and certainly not centered. They also sort of admitted very little knowledge of HW4 differences and how to troubleshoot these new components.

Back in the shop it goes with no ETA.

Anyone with HW4, can you go into Service Mode and check the main screen for "Autopilot hardware". and see if it shows anything (meaning totally blank) or "Full self driving computer" ?

Mine is completely blank and other cars I've driven shows the "full self driving computer". So many HW4 anomalies...

 

[maytaurustiger]

Anyone with HW4, can you go into Service Mode and check the main screen for "Autopilot hardware". and see if it shows anything (meaning totally blank) or "Full self driving computer" ?

Mine is completely blank and other cars I've driven shows the "full self driving computer". So many HW4 anomalies...

I have a 2023 Model X with HW4/AP04 and it shows, "Autopilot Computer: Full self-driving computer." Just fyi, I didn't purchase FSD or anything.