Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

2023 Model Y LR Poor Mileage in real world

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
TBH, I am having a serious dose of buyers remorse at the moment. MY 2023 MY LR, gives me ~270 miles of range in mostly warm weather between 75-90F. This is mostly consistent with what the CR report noted. Andy I am nearly always on autopilot @70 MPH.

While I agree its EPAs fault to have not regulated well, its very eggregious of Tesla to give such optimistic range figures. Is the class action suit justified? I don't know. But I hope it triggers action at EPA to establish clear range rating methods and Tesla to come clean on their range figures.
Well, the argument on one hand is that they are playing by the rules. It's their right to do that ... not sure i would call that egregious.

On the other hand, knowing that Tesla's in real world driving conditions are underperforming the EPA range by quite a bit, it seems like voluntarily managing down the declared range a bit wouldn't be a bad idea.
 
Isn't it odd, when you are on a road trip, Tesla can calculate your range and remaining charge percent quite effectively over the course of a several hundred mile trip. They calculate range to the point where they know when you are going to have to stop to recharge, and how long it will take to the minute, but they cant provide a reasonable estimate for range when you are evaluating your purchase because the government is involved.

I think the issue is the EPA has no business being involved in the mileage declarations of Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV). Their involvement in motor vehicle testing is supposed to be restricted to emissions testing. I think we can agree that the EPA test is not testing BEV emissions. The EPA mileage testing protocol is fraught with ambiguity and arbitrary calculations. The testing has nothing to do with emissions.

Maybe the Consumer Protection agency has more jurisdiction over BEV mileage claims than the EPA. With the recent Bruen decision in the Supreme Court, government agencies are not allowed to go around and make rules up without specific directions from congress. The EPA may be out of line here.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Rocky_H
Isn't it odd, when you are on a road trip, Tesla can calculate your range and remaining charge percent quite effectively over the course of a several hundred mile trip. They calculate range to the point where they know when you are going to have to stop to recharge, and how long it will take to the minute, but they cant provide a reasonable estimate for range when you are evaluating your purchase because the government is involved.

I think the issue is the EPA has no business being involved in the mileage declarations of Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV). Their involvement in motor vehicle testing is supposed to be restricted to emissions testing I think we can agree that the EPA test is not testing BEV emissions. The EPA mileage testing protocol is fraught with ambiguity and arbitrary calculations. The testing has nothing to do with emissions.

Maybe the Consumer Protection agency has more jurisdiction over BEV mileage claims than the EPA. With the recent Bruen decision in the Supreme Court, government agencies are not allowed to go around and make *sugar* up without specific directions from congress. The EPA may be out of line here.

When on a trip you have told Tesla exactly where you are going, over what roads, at what time of day, and it even knows the temperature.

When sitting in a garage having just charged, the car has NO idea where, when, or how it might be used.

I agree displaying "EPA miles" is not great - it should simply list the battery percent and we'd not be having this conversation.
 
I'm currently in the final stages of pulling the trigger on a Tesla Model Y LR and have been getting into the weeds researching things, as this will be my first electric vehicle (currently driving around a gas sucking F150 EcoBoost), and have a few thoughts to share.

I feel like a part of the temperature effect on range is related in a pretty significant way to not just climate control/battery heating, but also to density altitude. Colder air can be quite a bit more dense than hot air, which would likely have pretty a pronounced impact on efficiency, especially at higher speed. Without nerding out too much on air density (I work in the aviation field, where we're constantly concerned with how environmental conditions will affect aircraft performance), comparing two days here in Las Vegas (January 3, 2023 vs July 31, 2023) shows pretty remarkable differences in density. (Weather Underground History - NWS Density Altitude Calculator)

January 3 DA (42° f , 27.84", 36.5°DP) = 1434.5ft DA
July 31 DA - (105° f, 27.68", 45.5°) = 5611ft DA

With Vegas being at just over 2,000ft, I suspect you'd see remarkable higher air density in areas with lower elevation and colder winter temperatures. Any car is going to deal with increased friction as it passes through the air at higher speeds, however an ICE car will actually be capable of creating quite a bit more power in low density altitudes vs high density altitudes. More power would, in theory, equate to reduced fuel consumption to accelerate at a set speed. If you're skeptical, take a look around at some drag race time comparisons between a place like San Diego and somewhere in Colorado. I recall reading a study awhile back comparing a BMW M3 to a Prius on a track, where the Prius needed to maintain 60mph and the M3 just had to pace it - the M3 actually returned higher fuel economy numbers, as the reduced power really required the car to use nearly all of it's available power to maintain speed. While the fuel economy differences may not be as pronounced in an ICE vehicle, taking a totally unscientific look through Fuelly and picking a car at random will generally show you decreased fuel economy numbers during the winter (Jan/Feb vs June/July) (probably somewhere in the neighborhood of -10%). This is probably a combination of climate, idle time spent warming up, and increased air density.

A BEV will deal with the same decrease in aerodynamic efficiency, but will also gain no additional power through more efficient combustion. Traveling at 70mph vs 55mph is probably generating almost twice the drag (I looked around but can't find the exact cross-sectional area for a MY to calculate). Combine that with the already increased air density, and you're going to have a dramatic increase in the amount of energy needed to move. I actually found an article where a pair of drivers took a Tesla around 600 miles on a single charge, all by limiting speeds to around 25mph. I think this really speaks to the effect that speed has on range, and think that this effect is probably more pronounced in a BEV vs in an ICE vehicle because of the differences in amount of energy on the vehicles.

With increased energy usage through climate controls, and I feel like it's not going to be uncommon at all to see reduced efficiency in the range of 20-30% when the only factor is speed. Add in the multiple hits that temperature brings, and I suppose the 30-50% reduction in range makes a good bit of sense.
 
Regarding winter driving efficiency in an ICE vehicle, in the US the EPA mandates that only special winter blends of fuel be sold in many parts of the US. (The number of different seasonally blended fuels is actually quite extensive depending on the season, region and population density.) Winter blends of gasoline are formulated to reduce emissions but at the cost of a couple of MPG in most passenger vehicles. In general every moving component of the vehicle has to work harder in colder temperatures.
 
With increased energy usage through climate controls, and I feel like it's not going to be uncommon at all to see reduced efficiency in the range of 20-30% when the only factor is speed. Add in the multiple hits that temperature brings, and I suppose the 30-50% reduction in range makes a good bit of sense.

If you are concerned about range and efficiency, speed is certainly the major factor affecting the range, especially above 80 mph.
Also frontal wind will have an effect on your efficiency, something noticeable especially in some areas around sunset when driving west,
Otherwise temperature will have an effect because of the use of HVAC (cold or hot).
So you are right, overall variations of 30% to 50% compared to an ideal case, are not uncommon.

Something to consider also is the change of altitude that you will encounter during a trip, where you can easily double your consumption
when going up, but also you can get back at least one third when going down.

Tesla provides a nice display inside the car of the current consumption and the arrival state of charge both estimated and actual.
I would recommend playing with the web App A Better Route Planner (ABRP) where you can adjust various parameters to evaluate
those effects and get a more realistic trip consumption according to your previous analysis and observations.

When driving an EV, efficiency is more noticeable than when driving an ICE vehicle because internal combustion engines have a lot of losses,
from heat and friction, that only about 40% of the energy is available to move the vehicle, making other effects less prominent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: maximizese
Something to consider also is the change of altitude that you will encounter during a trip, where you can easily double your consumption
when going up, but also you can get back at least one third when going down.

Tesla provides a nice display inside the car of the current consumption and the arrival state of charge both estimated and actual.
I would recommend playing with the web App A Better Route Planner (ABRP) where you can adjust various parameters to evaluate
those effects and get a more realistic trip consumption according to your previous analysis and observations.

I noticed this when planning a potential trip down to my parents in Arizona. The route from Wickenburg up to Prescott really ate up some battery, but the trip back barely used any range. I do have some concerns with more rural areas away from freeways, as there seems to be little Supercharger support there. I'm hesitant to even try using any of the third party chargers because of some of the horror stories, but it might be a necessity. Good tip on the ABRP app, I'll take a look at it!